Are you a Romans 7 man or a Romans 8 man?
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I am saying it was a hard to translate verse from what I have read since the specific usage of the word is not used elsewhere in the bible out side of 1 John.
Based on a few translations and some recent texts from that period that contain the word is usage is better understood now.
As being the present tense state of having sinned or suffering under the consequences of sin..
It is in no ways weighty enough on its own to refute the other verses in its own context like.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth - 1 John 1:6
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. - 1John 2:1
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. - 1 John 2:3-6
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not [j]shrink away from Him in shame [k]at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is [l]born of Him. - 1 John 2:28-
OR other scriptures that state clearly the opposite of the mistranslated 1 John 1:8 for example 1 Peter 4:1-2 which speaks of the need to cease from sin and the mindset of being ready to suffer as how to do so and that it is required to begin to live the rest of your life for the Glory of God.
A badly translated 1 John 1:8 and a poorly understood Romans 7 man make up the foundation of a stronghold in mens minds against the truth of the Gospel and believing in God for all three parts of our salvation.
If Satan cant stop you from getting saved past tense he will do his best to keep you from being saved present tense and leave you as one who will be ashamed and shrink away when Jesus comes.
Based on a few translations and some recent texts from that period that contain the word is usage is better understood now.
As being the present tense state of having sinned or suffering under the consequences of sin..
It is in no ways weighty enough on its own to refute the other verses in its own context like.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth - 1 John 1:6
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. - 1John 2:1
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked. - 1 John 2:3-6
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not [j]shrink away from Him in shame [k]at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is [l]born of Him. - 1 John 2:28-
OR other scriptures that state clearly the opposite of the mistranslated 1 John 1:8 for example 1 Peter 4:1-2 which speaks of the need to cease from sin and the mindset of being ready to suffer as how to do so and that it is required to begin to live the rest of your life for the Glory of God.
A badly translated 1 John 1:8 and a poorly understood Romans 7 man make up the foundation of a stronghold in mens minds against the truth of the Gospel and believing in God for all three parts of our salvation.
If Satan cant stop you from getting saved past tense he will do his best to keep you from being saved present tense and leave you as one who will be ashamed and shrink away when Jesus comes.
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I know isent it crazy.
One verse says you cant say you dont have sin or your a sinner.
The next he says im telling you this so you dont sin.
Cause it would be a sin to not sin, I am telling you this so don't sin.
Some whole thing becomes some circular logic, endless loop.
Just because of a misunderstood word that the translators knew was not definitive in the first place.
One verse says you cant say you dont have sin or your a sinner.
The next he says im telling you this so you dont sin.
Cause it would be a sin to not sin, I am telling you this so don't sin.
Some whole thing becomes some circular logic, endless loop.
Just because of a misunderstood word that the translators knew was not definitive in the first place.
L,
it's obvious that you don't have the Spiritual Discernment that you think you have -
not being mean, but don't try and be Jesus, just be you, like the rest of us
who are seeking to 'walk the walk and talk the talk, serving our Christ -
put your energy into becoming the best that you can be for your Creator, Husband, Best Friend,
ETC...it's our job...
it's obvious that you don't have the Spiritual Discernment that you think you have -
not being mean, but don't try and be Jesus, just be you, like the rest of us
who are seeking to 'walk the walk and talk the talk, serving our Christ -
put your energy into becoming the best that you can be for your Creator, Husband, Best Friend,
ETC...it's our job...
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But if you think Romans is not addressing those who call themselves Jew Chapter 2
Is not speaking of the story of Gods work and how the law is not able to save and that does not end with man crying out to be saved in Romans 7 and the Presentation of what God did for that man to save him from is state under law in Romans 8 then you might want to study it a few hundred times and figure out how to reconcile it all. Or just stick with what you got because its not all that important to be sure you are sure and that some remaining sin has not blinded you to the truth. Anyway I think I have made my case clearly.
Is not speaking of the story of Gods work and how the law is not able to save and that does not end with man crying out to be saved in Romans 7 and the Presentation of what God did for that man to save him from is state under law in Romans 8 then you might want to study it a few hundred times and figure out how to reconcile it all. Or just stick with what you got because its not all that important to be sure you are sure and that some remaining sin has not blinded you to the truth. Anyway I think I have made my case clearly.
If you ever intend to walk the walk you have to believe its possible first.
The you have to be sure you are actually doing what he says to do, pursuing what he says to peruse and ready to suffer, you know take up your cross and follow.
That is how you become his disciple is it not?
If you plan to die in your sins because your a wretched man/woman and making you like Christ is so impossible you might want to consider where your faith really rests and if you believe more in your sin then you do in your God.
Because that is as distinct possibility when you tell God he cant do it because your haven't been able to.
Our salvation is so much greater then what we lay hold of and live.
We where mean to walk in the fullness of the stature of Christ Jesus.
Be filled up even to the fullness of God.
Could any of that be possible if it depended on our ability?
But with God nothing is impossible we just need to set our minds to the fact that we must suffer if we are going to believe Him and have it.
I just want us all to have it and believe Him for it all, this thing we call salvation.
The you have to be sure you are actually doing what he says to do, pursuing what he says to peruse and ready to suffer, you know take up your cross and follow.
That is how you become his disciple is it not?
If you plan to die in your sins because your a wretched man/woman and making you like Christ is so impossible you might want to consider where your faith really rests and if you believe more in your sin then you do in your God.
Because that is as distinct possibility when you tell God he cant do it because your haven't been able to.
Our salvation is so much greater then what we lay hold of and live.
We where mean to walk in the fullness of the stature of Christ Jesus.
Be filled up even to the fullness of God.
Could any of that be possible if it depended on our ability?
But with God nothing is impossible we just need to set our minds to the fact that we must suffer if we are going to believe Him and have it.
I just want us all to have it and believe Him for it all, this thing we call salvation.
What makes you think that this verse was "badly translated*? Since when have you become the arbiter of what is properly translated and what is not? So let's take a closer look at your false accusation.
1 JOHN 1:8
CRITICAL TEXT (no different from Received Text)
Ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἔχομεν, ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.
New American Standard Bible (modern version based on Critical Text)
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
RECEIVED TEXT
ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἔχομεν, ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν, καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.
King James Bible (Reformation Bible based on Received Text)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
So your BOGUS ACCUSATION against the translation has no merit. Which means that it is time for you to actually believe what is in the Bible, rather than manufacture your own theology.
1 JOHN 1:8
CRITICAL TEXT (no different from Received Text)
Ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἔχομεν, ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.
New American Standard Bible (modern version based on Critical Text)
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
RECEIVED TEXT
ἐὰν εἴπωμεν ὅτι ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἔχομεν, ἑαυτοὺς πλανῶμεν, καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἡμῖν.
King James Bible (Reformation Bible based on Received Text)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
So your BOGUS ACCUSATION against the translation has no merit. Which means that it is time for you to actually believe what is in the Bible, rather than manufacture your own theology.
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Here is my so called BOGUS accusation.
8If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, ▼ we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Translators notes: Grk “say we do not have sin.” The use of ἔχω + ἁμαρτία (ecō + hamartia) is an expression limited to John and 1 John in the NT. On the analogy with other constructions where ἔχω governs an abstract noun (e.g., 1 John 1:3, 6, 7; 2:28; 3:3, 15, 21; 4:16, 17; 5:12–13), it indicates that a state is involved, which in the case of ἁμαρτία would refer to a state of sin. The four times the expression ἔχω + ἁμαρτία occurs in the Gospel of John (9:41; 15:22, 24; 19:11) all refer to situations where a wrong action has been committed or a wrong attitude has already existed, resulting in a state of sin, and then something else happens which further emphasizes the evil of that action or attitude. Here in 1 John 1:8 the sense is the same. The author is addressing people who have sinned (resulting in a state of sin), warning them that they cannot claim to be free from the guilt of that sin. The context of 1 John does not imply libertinism (where sins are flaunted as a way of demonstrating one’s “liberty”) on the part of the opponents, since the author makes no explicit charges of immoral behavior against his opponents. The worst the author explicitly says is that they have failed to love the brethren (1 John 3:17). It seems more likely that the opponents were saying that things a believer did after conversion were not significant enough to be “sins” that could challenge one’s intimate relationship with God (a relationship the author denies that the opponents have to begin with).
“The extensive and reliable notes in the NET Bible were a wonderful help to our translation team as we worked to prepare the English Standard Version.”
Wayne Grudem
Member, Translation Oversight Committee, ESV
Research Professor of Bible and Theology
Phoenix Seminary
Scottsdale, AZ
8If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, ▼ we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
Translators notes: Grk “say we do not have sin.” The use of ἔχω + ἁμαρτία (ecō + hamartia) is an expression limited to John and 1 John in the NT. On the analogy with other constructions where ἔχω governs an abstract noun (e.g., 1 John 1:3, 6, 7; 2:28; 3:3, 15, 21; 4:16, 17; 5:12–13), it indicates that a state is involved, which in the case of ἁμαρτία would refer to a state of sin. The four times the expression ἔχω + ἁμαρτία occurs in the Gospel of John (9:41; 15:22, 24; 19:11) all refer to situations where a wrong action has been committed or a wrong attitude has already existed, resulting in a state of sin, and then something else happens which further emphasizes the evil of that action or attitude. Here in 1 John 1:8 the sense is the same. The author is addressing people who have sinned (resulting in a state of sin), warning them that they cannot claim to be free from the guilt of that sin. The context of 1 John does not imply libertinism (where sins are flaunted as a way of demonstrating one’s “liberty”) on the part of the opponents, since the author makes no explicit charges of immoral behavior against his opponents. The worst the author explicitly says is that they have failed to love the brethren (1 John 3:17). It seems more likely that the opponents were saying that things a believer did after conversion were not significant enough to be “sins” that could challenge one’s intimate relationship with God (a relationship the author denies that the opponents have to begin with).
“The extensive and reliable notes in the NET Bible were a wonderful help to our translation team as we worked to prepare the English Standard Version.”
Wayne Grudem
Member, Translation Oversight Committee, ESV
Research Professor of Bible and Theology
Phoenix Seminary
Scottsdale, AZ
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