Suicide

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SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#81
Ok a couple of examples.
Part of the myth about suicide being a ticket straight to hell was propogated by the RCC long ago because people in fear of losing their salvation, who lacked faith, understanding and didn't think they would measure up, `According to works and sacraments would commit suicide after recieving "Holy Communion". (a shortcut to heaven in order to avoid hell) a convoluted Inway they connected suicide to the traitor Judas Escariot (whom everybody hated) and declared it a mortal sin.


This demonstrates a lack of understanding about Communion.
For one that would be a ticket to hell not heaven.
Every Catholic knows that they shouldn't receive communion if they aren't in a state of Grace. If someone's last act is a mortal sin it doesn't matter if they received communion right before that because it changes nothing. They weren't in a state of Grace right before death. I don't know any Catholic who w ouldn't be horrified for anyone to do this.

convoluted Inway they connected suicide to the traitor Judas Escariot (whom everybody hated) and declared it a mortal sin.

This is just bizarre. Seemingly formulated on the false assumptions that the Catholic Church teaches that the Eucharist forgives sin and Judas Iscariot is a Saint.
I will say this very carefully, and make a disclaimer that by saying this I am not coming against you personally. I have a Catholic cousin I love, that I would never think about converting her because she's doing well as a Catholic. And also I have Eastern Orthodox family and friends. My best friend is Eastern Orthodox and we never debate about that. Because it's not damaging to her, like it was to me.

Every religious denomination has its outward mannerism or religious form, and an unspoken worldview that builds up in believers over time through the church's religious form and also teachings (ideas about God, ideas about how salvation works, etc.) Let's not focus on the teaching here and let's make it a non issue for this particular post because there's another point I want to make. People do not learn only from teachings, but also from the religious form of a denomination non verbally impresses beliefs into them. Yes, there are some people who understand grace correctly in their spirit among both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. Of course. Spirit-filled people people exist in every denomination. There's something else I'm getting at.

Inner beliefs are also learned from religious practice, not only from teaching, in fact, unless someone is a heavy Bible reader, they will likely be influenced by daily religious practice a lot more than what they hear from the pulpit about various subjects once a week. Eastern Orthodox and Catholic church both have the teaching of transubstantiation, per example. Eucharist is traditionally packed together with the sacrament of confession in both churches. The practice is that you should ponder upon your sins, confess sins, and then take the Eucharist. Also, heavy emphasis is on fear about not receiving it, quote "unworthily". For the Protestants, this "not unworthily" means do not partake in the Lord's supper without reasonable godly reverence/fear. But for Catholics and Orthodox, the fear is taken to a higher level and has another meaning. Eucharist is traditionally tied with confession and received after "cleansing" one from daily sin after confession, as in preparation to receive the Lords supper. Even though people don't always stick to that, they know very well what is the underlying concept even when they try to avoid confession and ask for peer permission and encouragement online, exposing their own doubts ("thou sayest").

So what is the message that the believer may take from this? The underlying concept that results is that the believer doesn't have a pure enough status to face God unless when priest absolves them on special occasions. As opposed to being declared clean once and for all. (John 13:10, 1 Pet 3:21, and most importantly HEB 10:22). What really matters is not what people may confess by mouth or what catechisis is, but what people actually believe about their conscience in practice and chronic fears that many carry in their hearts, which will likely make them to call for a priest to confess and be assured once again that they are forgiven before dying.

This suggestion of chronic guilty conscience which is just sometimes shortly clean, is exactly why so many Catholic and Eastern Orthodox believers do not feel bold to go before Jesus, outright refuse to pray to Father God or Jesus directly and seek human intercessors instead in saints and Mary. Many believe Jesus doesn't deem them worthy enough, so to be heard or effectively pray, they must resort to saints and Mary. Some also feel like they are unimportant, unworthy to go directly to God. (As if Mary and the saints would not delegate it to His table anyway.) I know this because I asked different people, why not pray to God directly, when I was divorcing denominations myself, and that's the responses I got.

Beliefs about Mary and the saints having pleased God and therefore being more adequate before Him, are shared between the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. This is suggested to believers non verbally, by focusing heavily on their veneration in daily religious practices and through established prayer formats dedicated to Mary and various saints. If you're daily elevating someone, they will ultimately be ideated as someone above a common believer, no matter what is taught. As opposed to Protestants where they are spoken of with respect, but only God is the focus in veneration, and - at least for the whopping majority - The Lord's Prayer is the only prayer format that is common or encouraged. This impression, facilitated by dedicated veneration, that Mary and the saints are some sort of special tier pure people (as opposed to having sinned like the Scripture says all have, but made clean by the Holy Spirit), further takes away the believers' confidence before Christ and despairs about measuring up to such a standard.

I am not saying that you personally have such beliefs. Teaching aside, I don't intend to debate about teaching right now, I am saying that the impact of Catholic or Orthodox religious format on different people may differ spiritually a lot more than you think. Some people might be unscathed and still thrive, but there are many many others for whom this isn't the case.
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#82
The bible says Smart like a snake, no harm as a dove
if someone suicide,it must harm their friends family,
but for suicide go to where, first turn to dust,then I don't know The answer.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#83
Doesn't that mean God lets Satan tempt us?
I thought Satan was an enemy of God?
Satan is the enemy of God. Satan is the flesh mind as opposed to spiritual mind.
Job doubted and feared in his heart, God did not tempt anyone, only gave to Job according to his faith, because He cannot do but repay things righteously.

Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

The underlined is the very important part that explains why the whole story happened.
The whole event happened because it was the only way for God to purge Job from fearing calamity and loss continually, being driven by his flesh mind. He had to face loss, and come to grips with loss, and accept God as a sufficient everything. His restoration wasn't a reward. God simply gave to him, the same as He previously simply took away. The message of Job, for me, is that there is equanimity in God, to our flesh the experience is very different, but ultimately there is no difference when everything is stripped down, God is the absolute experience of reality whether He takes away or gives.
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#84
Doesn't that mean God lets Satan tempt us?
I thought Satan was an enemy of God?
I understand your question now. It seems that Satan is cooperating with God. Why would he do that given his hatred for Him. Such a good question. It went right over my head. The fallen angels are brilliant intellects that have been in and witnessed creation since the beginning. Human intelligence isn't in the same league. At the same time the fallen angels completely lack creativity. So, they are kind of like irrational beasts in that they do what they do and that is all they got so they can't not do it. They are unable to form a different approach to their evil designs.
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#85
You can spin it however you wish.... people who are intent on ending their lives are NOT seeking happiness. It is not a situation of "I'm going to do this because it will make me happy".... it is "I'm going to do this to end my suffering".

and... last time I checked, none of the apostles are still living.
Ok hornetguy, interesting name by the way. What human act is seeking unhappiness as it's end?
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#86
I will say this very carefully, and make a disclaimer that by saying this I am not coming against you personally. I have a Catholic cousin I love, that I would never think about converting her because she's doing well as a Catholic. And also I have Eastern Orthodox family and friends. My best friend is Eastern Orthodox and we never debate about that. Because it's not damaging to her, like it was to me.

Every religious denomination has its outward mannerism or religious form, and an unspoken worldview that builds up in believers over time through the church's religious form and also teachings (ideas about God, ideas about how salvation works, etc.) Let's not focus on the teaching here and let's make it a non issue for this particular post because there's another point I want to make. People do not learn only from teachings, but also from the religious form of a denomination non verbally impresses beliefs into them. Yes, there are some people who understand grace correctly in their spirit among both Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. Of course. Spirit-filled people people exist in every denomination. There's something else I'm getting at.

Inner beliefs are also learned from religious practice, not only from teaching, in fact, unless someone is a heavy Bible reader, they will likely be influenced by daily religious practice a lot more than what they hear from the pulpit about various subjects once a week. Eastern Orthodox and Catholic church both have the teaching of transubstantiation, per example. Eucharist is traditionally packed together with the sacrament of confession in both churches. The practice is that you should ponder upon your sins, confess sins, and then take the Eucharist. Also, heavy emphasis is on fear about not receiving it, quote "unworthily". For the Protestants, this "not unworthily" means do not partake in the Lord's supper without reasonable godly reverence/fear. But for Catholics and Orthodox, the fear is taken to a higher level and has another meaning. Eucharist is traditionally tied with confession and received after "cleansing" one from daily sin after confession, as in preparation to receive the Lords supper. Even though people don't always stick to that, they know very well what is the underlying concept even when they try to avoid confession and ask for peer permission and encouragement online, exposing their own doubts ("thou sayest").

So what is the message that the believer may take from this? The underlying concept that results is that the believer doesn't have a pure enough status to face God unless when priest absolves them on special occasions. As opposed to being declared clean once and for all. (John 13:10, 1 Pet 3:21, and most importantly HEB 10:22). What really matters is not what people may confess by mouth or what catechisis is, but what people actually believe about their conscience in practice and chronic fears that many carry in their hearts, which will likely make them to call for a priest to confess and be assured once again that they are forgiven before dying.

This suggestion of chronic guilty conscience which is just sometimes shortly clean, is exactly why so many Catholic and Eastern Orthodox believers do not feel bold to go before Jesus, outright refuse to pray to Father God or Jesus directly and seek human intercessors instead in saints and Mary. Many believe Jesus doesn't deem them worthy enough, so to be heard or effectively pray, they must resort to saints and Mary. Some also feel like they are unimportant, unworthy to go directly to God. (As if Mary and the saints would not delegate it to His table anyway.) I know this because I asked different people, why not pray to God directly, when I was divorcing denominations myself, and that's the responses I got.

Beliefs about Mary and the saints having pleased God and therefore being more adequate before Him, are shared between the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. This is suggested to believers non verbally, by focusing heavily on their veneration in daily religious practices and through established prayer formats dedicated to Mary and various saints. If you're daily elevating someone, they will ultimately be ideated as someone above a common believer, no matter what is taught. As opposed to Protestants where they are spoken of with respect, but only God is the focus in veneration, and - at least for the whopping majority - The Lord's Prayer is the only prayer format that is common or encouraged. This impression, facilitated by dedicated veneration, that Mary and the saints are some sort of special tier pure people (as opposed to having sinned like the Scripture says all have, but made clean by the Holy Spirit), further takes away the believers' confidence before Christ and despairs about measuring up to such a standard.

I am not saying that you personally have such beliefs. Teaching aside, I don't intend to debate about teaching right now, I am saying that the impact of Catholic or Orthodox religious format on different people may differ spiritually a lot more than you think. Some people might be unscathed and still thrive, but there are many many others for whom this isn't the case.
Thank you SoulWeaver. I find you and the folks here at CC most kind. hospitable . reasonable and Christ like of the many Christian/ Catholic sites Ive been to. I think I understand what you are saying. I am advised and grateful. Thank you.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,623
1,381
113
#87
Ok hornetguy, interesting name by the way. What human act is seeking unhappiness as it's end?
I'm glad you find my name interesting...

I don't know of any acts that humans do to deliberately seek unhappiness. But that does not make the reverse true, that every action is a seeking of happiness. Sometimes actions are taken to simply ease pain.. which is not the same thing as doing something to gain happiness.
I fully understand what you are saying. I just disagree with your labeling of their reason for taking their life. It makes it sound like a trivial decision to "do something just to gain some happiness", when it is nothing of the sort.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,369
113
#88
Satan is the enemy of God. Satan is the flesh mind as opposed to spiritual mind.
Job doubted and feared in his heart, God did not tempt anyone, only gave to Job according to his faith, because He cannot do but repay things righteously.

Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

The underlined is the very important part that explains why the whole story happened.
The whole event happened because it was the only way for God to purge Job from fearing calamity and loss continually, being driven by his flesh mind. He had to face loss, and come to grips with loss, and accept God as a sufficient everything. His restoration wasn't a reward. God simply gave to him, the same as He previously simply took away. The message of Job, for me, is that there is equanimity in God, to our flesh the experience is very different, but ultimately there is no difference when everything is stripped down, God is the absolute experience of reality whether He takes away or gives.
Thank you. Why would God employ the assistance of Satan for this?
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#89
I'm glad you find my name interesting...

I don't know of any acts that humans do to deliberately seek unhappiness. But that does not make the reverse true, that every action is a seeking of happiness. Sometimes actions are taken to simply ease pain.. which is not the same thing as doing something to gain happiness.
I fully understand what you are saying. I just disagree with your labeling of their reason for taking their life. It makes it sound like a trivial decision to "do something just to gain some happiness", when it is nothing of the sort.
I say that because I've heard it preached that it's our nature to seek happiness and in all we do that is object. Even when we decide to sacrifice our life for a friend it's not a matter of not seeking happiness but a matter of delayed gratification.

I was wondering if you think someone committing suicide is seeking to improve their state of being. That they are seeking well being.

Are you a hornet keeper?
 

Prycejosh1987

Active member
Jul 19, 2020
953
166
43
#92
Whatever the case suicide is not good at all, it just goes to show you that suicide has no preference and has existed throughout time.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#93
Thank you. Why would God employ the assistance of Satan for this?
Forgive me about the delay. I was thinking of how to answer (not what, but how to convey it) and there was no way to put this shortly. The ideas and imaginations that we all form reading the Bible, not the Bible itself, and a lot of them derived from iconography, cause confusion and this type of question. Imagining satan as a dude with black wings and a pointy tail, we are bound to run into problems. First of all what is a spirit? Spirit is an essence of being. God is the spiritual being that fully expresses the essence of love. When we feel depressed we say we are in "low spirits", or we call it "blue-devil".

As I said in that post, I believe satan is the carnal mind in each one of us. It's this carnal mind that tempts us. Which doesn't mean it doesn't have its unmistakable and unique individual "persona": it's impatient, self important, lustful, obstinate, and so forth. This spirit or essence of such being is called satan, or the enemy, in the Bible. The spirit that loves all, is patient, forgiving, just, is called the Holy Spirit. God is the I AM, the ultimate Person/Spirit, so before Him all things, that move and live thanks to Him, are seen by Him as personas/spirits, including churches, cities, tribes and nations (tribes describes like men/sons, and congregations described like women each with their own personas, a good example is Ezekiel), which doesn't mean they are some gigantic human amalgamation creatures, but God is conveying to us how their collective spirit or persona fares before Him in a language we can easily perceive. God uses picture language ("for without a parable He spoke not") because a parable is very easy to be digested if the person is attuned spiritually, they will at least understand it on a most basic level and perceive more wisdom with growth, as opposed to giving an encyclopedia type of explanation for spiritual things, by which a degree of information would be lost through expounding and definition, and would require the person to have some book knowledge to have a chance to understand.

Carnal mind came with the human autonomy of "being like God and know good and evil" that Adam and Eve got. This ability gave them the power of judgment by discerning, and also to condemn themselves, they were immediately ashamed. So who is really the accuser of brethren (Rev 12:10)? "Who told them" that they were naked? In Luke 10:29, the man was "willing to justify himself" - I think it's a good question to ask, who accused him? I believe that the man accused himself in his own heart. The flesh, carnal mind, is the accuser of brethren, having the power to accuse us day and night through our knowledge of the law (good and evil). And this carnal mind that was the accuser of brethren was cast down at the cross as to not rule anymore, the brethren cannot be accused anymore, because they crucified the flesh and are dead to the law (Gal 2:19). Some more Scriptures:

Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: (...)
Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Job 15:6 Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I: yea, thine own lips testify against thee.
Luke 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. (...)
Psalms 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.

This of course doesn't mean that God is froward, only that He rightfully recompenses each person according to what they invest their faith into, in their own heart, which I believe happened in the book of Job:

Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Job did not only have fears of future. He also doubted his own faith in God and his ability to accept loss if it happened. This is represented as the satan figure (which I believe, that satan being the carnal mind in man, was Job's own carnal mind with all its doubts) appearing before God several times and each time a loss happened, showing DOUBT before God - Job serves God well for now, but should some worse loss happen, Job just might not be able to take it and continue serving God. This is nothing but Job's doubt, the enemy, the carnal mind, that keeps rearing its head up as he is going through spiritual trials.

Job constantly feared loss and thought that all his blessings, that were a wage to his righteous living, were not a guarantee, but may go south though acting of his sons where he had no control (Job 1:5). And that's the problem No.1 that Job had and God wanted to strip off him, wanting to control outcomes instead of having faith that all things ultimately work out for good for the faithful. God uses even this terrible situation for good, for Job's refinement, even his worst fears and doubts, because He uses even our carnal mind (that condemns us through the law) as the schoolmaster, to bring us closer to Him. I hope you find the answer satisfying.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,369
113
#94
Forgive me about the delay. I was thinking of how to answer (not what, but how to convey it) and there was no way to put this shortly. The ideas and imaginations that we all form reading the Bible, not the Bible itself, and a lot of them derived from iconography, cause confusion and this type of question. Imagining satan as a dude with black wings and a pointy tail, we are bound to run into problems. First of all what is a spirit? Spirit is an essence of being. God is the spiritual being that fully expresses the essence of love. When we feel depressed we say we are in "low spirits", or we call it "blue-devil".

As I said in that post, I believe satan is the carnal mind in each one of us. It's this carnal mind that tempts us. Which doesn't mean it doesn't have its unmistakable and unique individual "persona": it's impatient, self important, lustful, obstinate, and so forth. This spirit or essence of such being is called satan, or the enemy, in the Bible. The spirit that loves all, is patient, forgiving, just, is called the Holy Spirit. God is the I AM, the ultimate Person/Spirit, so before Him all things, that move and live thanks to Him, are seen by Him as personas/spirits, including churches, cities, tribes and nations (tribes describes like men/sons, and congregations described like women each with their own personas, a good example is Ezekiel), which doesn't mean they are some gigantic human amalgamation creatures, but God is conveying to us how their collective spirit or persona fares before Him in a language we can easily perceive. God uses picture language ("for without a parable He spoke not") because a parable is very easy to be digested if the person is attuned spiritually, they will at least understand it on a most basic level and perceive more wisdom with growth, as opposed to giving an encyclopedia type of explanation for spiritual things, by which a degree of information would be lost through expounding and definition, and would require the person to have some book knowledge to have a chance to understand.

Carnal mind came with the human autonomy of "being like God and know good and evil" that Adam and Eve got. This ability gave them the power of judgment by discerning, and also to condemn themselves, they were immediately ashamed. So who is really the accuser of brethren (Rev 12:10)? "Who told them" that they were naked? In Luke 10:29, the man was "willing to justify himself" - I think it's a good question to ask, who accused him? I believe that the man accused himself in his own heart. The flesh, carnal mind, is the accuser of brethren, having the power to accuse us day and night through our knowledge of the law (good and evil). And this carnal mind that was the accuser of brethren was cast down at the cross as to not rule anymore, the brethren cannot be accused anymore, because they crucified the flesh and are dead to the law (Gal 2:19). Some more Scriptures:

Proverbs 23:7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: (...)
Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Matthew 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Job 15:6 Thine own mouth condemneth thee, and not I: yea, thine own lips testify against thee.
Luke 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. (...)
Psalms 18:26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.

This of course doesn't mean that God is froward, only that He rightfully recompenses each person according to what they invest their faith into, in their own heart, which I believe happened in the book of Job:

Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Job did not only have fears of future. He also doubted his own faith in God and his ability to accept loss if it happened. This is represented as the satan figure (which I believe, that satan being the carnal mind in man, was Job's own carnal mind with all its doubts) appearing before God several times and each time a loss happened, showing DOUBT before God - Job serves God well for now, but should some worse loss happen, Job just might not be able to take it and continue serving God. This is nothing but Job's doubt, the enemy, the carnal mind, that keeps rearing its head up as he is going through spiritual trials.

Job constantly feared loss and thought that all his blessings, that were a wage to his righteous living, were not a guarantee, but may go south though acting of his sons where he had no control (Job 1:5). And that's the problem No.1 that Job had and God wanted to strip off him, wanting to control outcomes instead of having faith that all things ultimately work out for good for the faithful. God uses even this terrible situation for good, for Job's refinement, even his worst fears and doubts, because He uses even our carnal mind (that condemns us through the law) as the schoolmaster, to bring us closer to Him. I hope you find the answer satisfying.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Thank you for your thoughts and reply.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#95
Too long; didn't read version:
because He uses even our carnal mind (that condemns us through the law) as the schoolmaster, to bring us closer to Him:
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
It isn't surprising that the book ends with a giant vindication from God that Job gets, and God even rebuking his friends and saying that His servant Job is the righteous one, and that they had no idea. And they really had no idea what had just taken place in Job's spirit.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#96
Samson prayed to God for his strength back to...

a. Get vengance on the Philistines
b. Kill himself in the process

God granted his request...KNOWING the Holiness of God...

Would he grant a request that leads directly to sin?

Samson makes the 11th chapter of Hebrews under faith!
Right here is a prime example of dishonesty and personal issues directed at me by a Mod.....Everything I stated in this post is factual and biblical and I get a red X by a Moderator that has accused me in the past of lying about attending seminary

@RoboOp @Oncefallen

It is tragic that I can make 5 factual, biblical statements and get a Red X from a Moderator!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,170
4,000
113
#97
Right here is a prime example of dishonesty and personal issues directed at me by a Mod.....Everything I stated in this post is factual and biblical and I get a red X by a Moderator that has accused me in the past of lying about attending seminary

@RoboOp @Oncefallen

It is tragic that I can make 5 factual, biblical statements and get a Red X from a Moderator!
hey anyone can disagree with your thread or mine :) you have given out red X's I did not see anyone crying about LOL. I think I got a dozen of them or more and all of those people are still here and did not even cry about it. Maybe if just asked where do you disagree with the post I would have told you and guess what I could still be wrong. And you could still disagree. I do not control anyone here :) .
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#98
hey anyone can disagree with your thread or mine :) you have given out red X's I did not see anyone crying about LOL. I think I got a dozen of them or more and all of those people are still here and did not even cry about it. Maybe if just asked where do you disagree with the post I would have told you and guess what I could still be wrong. And you could still disagree. I do not control anyone here :) .
Nice attempt at damage control.....!!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,170
4,000
113
#99
Samson prayed to God for his strength back to...

a. Get vengance on the Philistines
b. Kill himself in the process

God granted his request...KNOWING the Holiness of God...

Would he grant a request that leads directly to sin?

Samson makes the 11th chapter of Hebrews under faith!
Let remove the red X from this post before
Nice attempt at damage control.....!!
X
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,170
4,000
113
Right here is a prime example of dishonesty and personal issues directed at me by a Mod.....Everything I stated in this post is factual and biblical and I get a red X by a Moderator that has accused me in the past of lying about attending seminary

@RoboOp @Oncefallen

It is tragic that I can make 5 factual, biblical statements and get a Red X from a Moderator!
hey, I checked for you so you will come out of your safety space CS1 has received 52 RED X's Ok 52 of them. you just one and crying LOL ahahaha