Have You Received the Holy Ghost Since You Believed?

[Wansvic]

Not sure what you are meaning ..

I am pointing out that receiving the Holy Spirit as a group is different to an individual receiving the Holy Spirit.

Individual.. this is getting saved.

Group.. this is already saved believers being empowered.. and happens when they become a local church.

So the disciples being asked whether they received the Holy Spirit I see as an already saved group of believers.. each already individually indwelt ..
.. being empowered by the Holy Spirit coming 'in their midst'

How is it possible one has been born again without their being indwelt by the Holy Spirit? What scriptures state this?

 

[Wansvic]

IF the OP is simply trying to say one MUST speak in tongues, OR they do not have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit...........then that is FALSE!

Speaking in tongues is ONLY ONE of the GIFTS of the Spirit, and Paul listed it as the last/least..................

Paul did show HOW one receives the indwelling presence, and that is by a Sanctified Believer lays hands on and prays over a new believer/or one who has not yet received the indwelling presence......

There is only the ONE instance where this differs......and that was at Pentecost, in the Upper Room, and that was because there were NO Sanctified Believers/those having the indwelling presence to lay hands on and pray over the Disciples and all the others in the Upper Room. In this one instance, the Holy Spirit Himself did it..........

After that, the only way in Scripture to receive the indwelling presence is as Paul laid out. There is a difference between "falling upon" and "indwelling."

There are very few people, congregations today who practice tongues speaking according to Scripture............far too many are fake.......

How do I know this? Because I took the time to investigate numerous such congregations and learned the following:

There where those in the Congregation that had written instructions that were suppose to teach people to speak in tongues..........this is TOTALLY AGAINST SCRIPTURE! It completely removes the Holy Spirit.

When several Ladies from one of these Congregations tried to teach my Mother to speak in tongues, they told her:

Close your eyes, lean you head way back, spread your arms out, and spin around and around and say as fast as you can "the keys to my Honda, the keys to my Honda." Do this and pretty soon you will be speaking in tongues.........

ANYONE who teaches that one MUST speak in tongues to have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is not teaching Biblical Truth.........

Don't want to hurt any feelings, rather, to be sure no one is led astray.........

The word of God expresses that speaking in tongues accompanies the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2, 8, 10, 19) One's belief should be determined by that not fallible human beings experiences. Keep in mind that counterfeits are imitations of things that actually exist.

 

[Wansvic]

Tongues are a sign of receiving the spirit. But a person can receive the spirit without tongues i believe. There is the holy spirit, and what i call "spiritual upgrades" Elisha was a perfect example of a spiritual upgrade.

What scriptures convey that one receives the Holy Spirit without outward evidence the moment they believe?

 

[Wansvic]

I'm becoming confused with your posts. I'm trying to follow you, but the quote from you above has me scratching my head.
Are you saying that God gives people His Spirit before they are saved? I'm not sure I am understanding what point you are trying to make

My point is in order to be saved one must be born again. This experience requires the indwelling of the Holy Ghost into one's body. People can believe the gospel without obeying the instructions that bring about one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2:38) Paul stated this fact in Romans 10:16.

 

[lenna]

My point is in order to be saved one must be born again. This experience requires the indwelling of the Holy Ghost into one's body. People can believe the gospel without obeying the instructions that bring about one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2:38) Paul stated this fact in Romans 10:16.

well what spirit do we receive when we accept Christ?

doesn't the Bible say we are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

what do you mean by instructions that bring about a spiritual rebirth? what instructions? you say all these things but do not indicate where you got this information from. I suppose the Bible, but where in the Bible?

 

[PlainWord]

How can one be absolutely sure they have received the Holy Ghost/Spirit? Only by evaluating scripture and finding consistency can this be done. The biblical record includes multiple events that point to the truth of what occurs when the Holy Ghost/Spirit actually enters the human body:

Consider the Apostle Peter’s words concerning the initial arrival of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost:

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.” Acts 2:32-33

“And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.” Acts 2:2-4


Peter also stated that the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost just as the Jews did on the Day of Pentecost. “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.” Acts 11:15

“While Peter yet these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” Acts 10:44-48


Paul’s interaction with the Ephesus disciples make it clear that tongues flowed from the disciples upon the arrival of the Holy Ghost into their bodies:

“And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.” Acts 19:1-6


The story of the Samaritan’s experience is interesting. It is another proof that one does not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believe. Ask yourself, How did those present know that the Samaritans HAD NOT received the Holy Ghost when they believed? They knew it because they did not witness the outward evidence of tongues.

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,” Acts 8:12-18

What exactly did Simon see that made him the Holy Ghost had filled the Samaritans?


Consider what Jesus told Nicodemus, just as the wind, the Holy Ghost/Spirit cannot be seen but it can be heard:
“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8


Another thing that I believe is associated, and find fascinating is that God takes control of the one thing man cannot control as evidence of His abiding presence; the tongue:
"For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
But the tongue can no man tame;" (James 3:7-8) However, with God all things are possible. (Matt 19:26)

Lastly, consider that on the Day of Pentecost just prior to the utterance of tongues a flame resembling a cloven (split) tongue appeared above each person when the Spirit entered their body. (Acts 2:3-4) See an Old Testament parallel:

• The Israelites knew when God was present in the darkness of night by the pillar of flame that appeared above the Old Testament tabernacle. (Exodus 25:8, 22, 29:43,40:34-38)
• New Testament believers ARE God’s tabernacle today. He abides inside of us.

The cloven (split or divided in two) tongue appears to represent that there are two types of tongues: One as the initial evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and two; the Spiritual gift of tongues.


We are told to study the word in order to get a clear understanding of God’s principles. There will always be 2-3 witnesses in the word to confirm if one’s understanding is the actual truth. The foregoing information pertaining to tongues being the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost/Spirit meets that criterion.

The Holy Spirit or Helper was sent to comfort, guide and help the disciples while Christ was gone. Since Christ's presence returned in 70 AD to oversee the destruction of Jerusalem, the Holy Spirit as the sole Helper is no longer necessary. Christ as the Groom of the Bride, the Church, has been with us ever since. Paul declared in 1 Cor 15, that the trinity is "all in all" since Christ defeated the last enemy - death. Death of course being spiritual death, i.e., separation from God. Since then, we have the indwelling of Father, Son and HS when we accept Christ, not just the HS alone. Minor point, but this is today's reality.

 

[specialtogod]

i pray for the holy ghost but i don't feel anything different

 

[Wansvic]

well what spirit do we receive when we accept Christ?

doesn't the Bible say we are sealed with the Holy Spirit?

what do you mean by instructions that bring about a spiritual rebirth? what instructions? you say all these things but do not indicate where you got this information from. I suppose the Bible, but where in the Bible?

Got the info from the bible as noted in my response: "People can believe the gospel without obeying the instructions that bring about one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2:38) Paul stated this fact in Romans 10:16."

 

[Wansvic]

The Holy Spirit or Helper was sent to comfort, guide and help the disciples while Christ was gone. Since Christ's presence returned in 70 AD to oversee the destruction of Jerusalem, the Holy Spirit as the sole Helper is no longer necessary. Christ as the Groom of the Bride, the Church, has been with us ever since. Paul declared in 1 Cor 15, that the trinity is "all in all" since Christ defeated the last enemy - death. Death of course being spiritual death, i.e., separation from God. Since then, we have the indwelling of Father, Son and HS when we accept Christ, not just the HS alone. Minor point, but this is today's reality.

Jesus has yet to return. But will do so after the battle of Armageddon as indicated in the Book of Revelation.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

How can one be absolutely sure they have received the Holy Ghost/Spirit?

Of a truth, they would know that one is not the other but since they believed that have not even read that they are not the same.

Consider what Jesus told Nicodemus, just as the wind, the Holy Ghost/Spirit cannot be seen but it can be heard:

I would consider why Nicodemus when to Jesus in the night with nothing in his hand. [See Job 24:13-14] Why? [See John 16:13] If you believe Jesus was a teacher of truth then wouldn't there be a price in your hand? [See Prov 17:16] Or does freely given mean that is given for free? [See Prov 23:23]

“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” John 3:8

Do you believe the wind is the force that moves the air or do you believe the wind is the moving air?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Jesus has yet to return.

Sorry, didn't see this before I posted my question. Please disregard my previous post.

 

[lenna]

Got the info from the bible as noted in my response: "People can believe the gospel without obeying the instructions that bring about one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2:38) Paul stated this fact in Romans 10:16."

short on time? you really didn't provide an answer to what I asked

 

[Wansvic]

short on time? you really didn't provide an answer to what I asked

I did answer you. If you take the time to read the scripture provided the answer to your questions is clear. Also, if you read the first post it provides the answer. Cannot be more specific than that.

 

[notuptome]

My point is in order to be saved one must be born again. This experience requires the indwelling of the Holy Ghost into one's body. People can believe the gospel without obeying the instructions that bring about one's spiritual rebirth. (Acts 2:38) Paul stated this fact in Romans 10:16.

This could not be farther from the truth if the devil himself had said it.

Acts 2:38 is the promise of the Holy Spirit to those who believe into Christ. Upon belief and acceptance of the gospel one is saved by grace. Hearing and receiving changes unbelievers into believers into Christ.

Romans 10:16 speaks to those who hear the gospel and question the promise of God to save by grace through faith. Why do you suppose Paul references Isaiah 53?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Sipsey]

Ive seen and tested some wonderfully written recipes. Some sure seem good, but turn out to be a type of gobblygook, much like this thread.

 

[Wansvic]

Ive seen and tested some wonderfully written recipes. Some sure seem good, but turn out to be a type of gobblygook, much like this thread.

Don't know how one can reject what the presented scriptures truly convey. However, everyone has the option to accept or reject the word. I personally choose to accept it.

 

[Sipsey]

Don't know how one can reject what the presented scriptures truly convey. However, everyone has the option to accept or reject the word. I personally choose to accept it.

Text without context, is pretext. Facts alone must be presented in a logical and correct sequence to avoid looking like utter nonsense.

 

[wattie]

How is it possible one has been born again without their being indwelt by the Holy Spirit? What scriptures state this?

Ah.. I mean.. an individual is indwelt by the Holy Spirit when the believe.

But the Holy Spirit also has the role of being 'in the midst' of a church.

There is no scripture where the Holy Spirit doesn't indwell some one upon belief.

Like I said.. the disciples would have already been indwell individually when they believed much earlier, but did not know about receiving the Holy Spirit as a group to be empowered as a church.

That's my take on it

 

[Sipsey]

Text without context, is pretext. Facts alone must be presented in a logical and correct sequence to avoid looking like utter nonsense.

Here is a better summation of my point by a Mr. Tozer. What I was trying to convey is that if ones point or assertion does not end up at the feet of Jesus, then ones reasoning is faulty.

The Christian is concerned primarily with truth, and especially with Him who is Truth incarnated. Facts are not to be despised. They are to be sought for their practical value and used in the service of truth, but they are never to be allowed to substitute for those "treasures of wisdom and knowledge" which are hidden in Christ.
In this day of moral confusion, truth is not always understood to be a master to which we must render obedience; it is rather conceived to be a servant which we may use to further ends that lie outside of truth. Private ends are often sought by the aid of truth, ends that stand outside of and bear no relation whatever to truth itself.

If we were to observe strict accuracy, we should always capitalize the word Truth, for when we have pushed it back as far as we can, we will come to God Himself. For this reason, truth will always be the master, never the servant. And truth can never be understood apart from its moral and spiritual implications.
A. W. Tozer Sermon: Finding Truth In Christ

 

[Wansvic]

Ah.. I mean.. an individual is indwelt by the Holy Spirit when the believe.

But the Holy Spirit also has the role of being 'in the midst' of a church.

There is no scripture where the Holy Spirit doesn't indwell some one upon belief.

Like I said.. the disciples would have already been indwell individually when they believed much earlier, but did not know about receiving the Holy Spirit as a group to be empowered as a church.

That's my take on it

Please provide scripture showing one receives the Spirit the moment they believe.