Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#3,841
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#3,841
Nehemiah6 said:
I don't need to purposefully misrepresent anything. When you take all Gospel truth together, the Bible is very clear and plain -- God will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim 2:4)

That one Scripture totally DEMOLISHES Calvinism, as well as your misunderstanding of John 10:26. Therefore those who were not Christ's sheep chose to willfully reject Him. And they could not believe because firstly they would not believe. As Paul says "But they have not all obeyed the Gospel" (Rom 10:16).

And it is Calvinists who wilfully and deliberately (1) misrepresent, or (2) misinterpret, or (3) misunderstand Scripture. John Calvin himself is the best example. First his commentaries give a proper exposition of what is in the Bible (since he had no choice or else would be outed), but then he contradicted those same Scriptures with his own WARPED THEOLOGY (which you have unfortunately adopted, rather than reject it out of hand).
Click to expand...
Is there a slight doubt in your mind that you could be interpreting scripture wrong? "Saved" in the Greek, means "delivered". There is an eternal deliverance, and there are many deliverance"s that we receive from God, as we sojourn here in this world, 1 Tim 2:4, being one of the timely deliverances.

When a regenerated, babe in Christ, comes unto a knowledge of the truth, he is delivered from the ignorance of that knowledge. That is when, usually, a child of God repents, and becomes converted to the truth.

Scripture proves scripture, and they all have to harmonize, before you can understand the doctrine that Jesus taught.

This is why Jesus told his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep of the house of Jacob, whose name is Israel.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#3,842
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
#3,842
I'm from the country so I know a little bit about sheep and goats. Goats are stubborn and won't listen. I always thought that is why the scripture used the reference of sheep and goats. A sheep will listen and obey, but goats are stubborn and will not.

Some people come to the light and others do not come to the light because they love darkness and don't want their deeds to be made manifest and reproved.

To me this is plain and simple, all have a choice to come to the light when drawn...some listen and obey and some choose not to.
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#3,843
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#3,843
Yes goats are rebellious and also very fearful creatures. I almost got murdered by a goat when I was 14 and I was saved by a rock from being killed by stones. (No nobody hurt the goat I got smacked) Crazy story...
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#3,844
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#3,844
garee said:
Amen. As many that could receive Him to them he gave His power .

By whose power do you believe God not seen?

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Click to expand...
And who is it "that could receive him". Those of his sheep that could hear and understand, not the natural man, who has not been regenerated, and does not understand the things of the Spirit.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#3,845
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#3,845
1ofthem said:
I'm from the country so I know a little bit about sheep and goats. Goats are stubborn and won't listen. I always thought that is why the scripture used the reference of sheep and goats. A sheep will listen and obey, but goats are stubborn and will not.

Some people come to the light and others do not come to the light because they love darkness and don't want their deeds to be made manifest and reproved.

To me this is plain and simple, all have a choice to come to the light when drawn...some listen and obey and some choose not to.
Click to expand...
Some listen and understand (his regenerated sheep), Some listen and do not understand, thinking it is foolishness (the goats)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#3,847
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#3,847
ForestGreenCook said:
Is there a slight doubt in your mind that you could be interpreting scripture wrong?
Click to expand...
None whatsoever. When we take Gospel truth from Genesis to Revelation it is crystal clear that because all humanity came under the curse of sin and death through Adam, God made full provision for the redemption of the human race through Christ (the second or last Adam). Therefore none are excluded from His grace, until they exclude themselves. This is vividly brought out in the words of Christ in Matthew 23:37,38:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

"And ye would not" means a deliberate and wilful rejection of Christ by the religious leaders of Israel, followed later on by the unbelieving mob before the crucifixion.
"Saved" in the Greek, means "delivered".
Click to expand...
Yes salvation is indeed deliverance. For the sinner it is deliverance from (1) the penalty of sin, (2) the power of sin, and (3) the presence of sin. That is all covered by justification, sanctification, and glorification. Salvation is all of God, and from God, and through Christ and the Holy Spirit. Which does not exempt the sinner from obedience to the Gospel, or the saint from obedience to Christ.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#3,848
Jan 13, 2016
17,129
3,689
113
#3,848
Nehemiah6 said:
None whatsoever. When we take Gospel truth from Genesis to Revelation it is crystal clear that because all humanity came under the curse of sin and death through Adam, God made full provision for the redemption of the human race through Christ (the second or last Adam). Therefore none are excluded from His grace, until they exclude themselves. This is vividly brought out in the words of Christ in Matthew 23:37,38:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

"And ye would not" means a deliberate and wilful rejection of Christ by the religious leaders of Israel, followed later on by the unbelieving mob before the crucifixion.

Yes salvation is indeed deliverance. For the sinner it is deliverance from (1) the penalty of sin, (2) the power of sin, and (3) the presence of sin. That is all covered by justification, sanctification, and glorification. Salvation is all of God, and from God, and through Christ and the Holy Spirit. Which does not exempt the sinner from obedience to the Gospel, or the saint from obedience to Christ.
Click to expand...
The passage is clear that it was God's desire for Israel to obey His word and turn to Him as a nation, but hey would not. In turn, He allowed their destruction.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#3,850
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#3,850
Nehemiah6 said:
None whatsoever. When we take Gospel truth from Genesis to Revelation it is crystal clear that because all humanity came under the curse of sin and death through Adam, God made full provision for the redemption of the human race through Christ (the second or last Adam). Therefore none are excluded from His grace, until they exclude themselves. This is vividly brought out in the words of Christ in Matthew 23:37,38:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

"And ye would not" means a deliberate and wilful rejection of Christ by the religious leaders of Israel, followed later on by the unbelieving mob before the crucifixion.

Yes salvation is indeed deliverance. For the sinner it is deliverance from (1) the penalty of sin, (2) the power of sin, and (3) the presence of sin. That is all covered by justification, sanctification, and glorification. Salvation is all of God, and from God, and through Christ and the Holy Spirit. Which does not exempt the sinner from obedience to the Gospel, or the saint from obedience to Christ.
Click to expand...
I am curious why in verse 39 does Jesus say "till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord"?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#3,851
#3,851
dcontroversal said:
Cultish is the word I would choose!
Click to expand...
Yes ... very much so.

So many in their signature line have quotes from famous Calvinists... their authority is other than scripture, like Catholics overly venerate human leadership (who are false teachers of course).

Notice, no one understands Calvinism (Reformed Theology) except Calvinites.

Also, they are walking contradictions and cannot even see it.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#3,852
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#3,852
Nehemiah6 said:
I don't need to purposefully misrepresent anything. When you take all Gospel truth together, the Bible is very clear and plain -- God will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim 2:4)
Click to expand...
Ok. Let's talk about this for a moment.

Are all men saved?

If yes, then you must be a universalist. In which case I can just say you are wrong and I can give you many scriptures telling you why.

If no, then why not? Is He God or are peoples "free will" more powerful than God?


This is really the only way to reason with people who don't understand scripture. Because scripture is absolutely clear. It is God who shows mercy. It is God who chooses. It is God who draws people to Christ. It is God who saves.

It is not the "free will" of people that is the cause of anything except abomination to God.

Isaiah 64:6-8
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

8 But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.


I almost don't like bringing scripture into this seeing how you don't really understand it and then twist it to try and make it mean something else. But I'm hoping maybe you will see your error.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#3,853
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#3,853
Duskey said:
Have you been drinking? Your two sentences totally contradict each other.
Click to expand...
Maybe you just aren't following the conversation very well.

The only thing those two sentences contradict is the philosophy of those who still worship their own will instead of Gods.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#3,855
#3,855
Grandpa said:
Maybe you just aren't following the conversation very well.

The only thing those two sentences contradict is the philosophy of those who still worship their own will instead of Gods.
Click to expand...
Strawman.

This however is not a straw man.
Those that follow the Augustine, Calvinism and Reformed Theology about predestination.... where group A is chosen for eternal life and Group Be is denied any chance at salvation.....

Do not worship the God of the Bible .. this is not His plan of salvation expressed in scripture.

I rather worship the one true God, the one who declares "whosoever"
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#3,857
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#3,857
Nehemiah6 said:
None whatsoever. When we take Gospel truth from Genesis to Revelation it is crystal clear that because all humanity came under the curse of sin and death through Adam, God made full provision for the redemption of the human race through Christ (the second or last Adam). Therefore none are excluded from His grace, until they exclude themselves. This is vividly brought out in the words of Christ in Matthew 23:37,38:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

"And ye would not" means a deliberate and wilful rejection of Christ by the religious leaders of Israel, followed later on by the unbelieving mob before the crucifixion.

Yes salvation is indeed deliverance. For the sinner it is deliverance from (1) the penalty of sin, (2) the power of sin, and (3) the presence of sin. That is all covered by justification, sanctification, and glorification. Salvation is all of God, and from God, and through Christ and the Holy Spirit. Which does not exempt the sinner from obedience to the Gospel, or the saint from obedience to Christ.
Click to expand...
We are created unto good works, by being quickened unto a new spiritual creature. Obedience to the gospel and to Christ are not the cause of us being quickened to a spiritual life, but the results of us having already been born again.
 
Duskey

Duskey

Banned
#3,858
May 31, 2020
1,706
1,559
113
#3,858
Grandpa said:
Maybe you just aren't following the conversation very well.

The only thing those two sentences contradict is the philosophy of those who still worship their own will instead of Gods.
Click to expand...
Your first sentence acknowledges that people have a choice, and that goes completely against your heretical dogma.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#3,859
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#3,859
WHY can we just not LOVE one another without 'counting' our differences???
this is what truly fills us our hearts, IF we can learn to do this,
to Love one another even as HE has LOVED us'...
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#3,860
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#3,860
oldethennew said:
WHY can we just not LOVE one another without 'counting' our differences???
this is what truly fills us our hearts, IF we can learn to do this,
to Love one another even as HE has LOVED us'...
Click to expand...
We can love each other, and still discuss our differences. We are instructed to teach regenerated babes in Christ the knowledge of the gospel of Christ, telling us to feed his sheep.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.