Too late after our death?
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Could you post scripture for:
- Keeping a commandment entitles you to spend eternity with the Triune God
- Not keeping all the others (there are about 2,400 in the New Testament) will be ignored by God
- Not being lead by the Spirit in things unwritten will be ignored by God (Rom.8:14)
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I possess the curse of an enquiring mind combined with a diminished level of patience and have to live with that fact. In Truth I know that I am saved through the saving Grace of Christ. However, as Paul so eloquently put it: I now see things only darkly as through a mirror and now know only in part. When the time comes I will know fully as I'm fully known and see things as they really are. I hope I won't be too surprised.
Patience I possess only in short measure. The Biblical reference to patience (longsuffering) as a virtue can be found in Galatians 5:22-23 KJV “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law”. A lack of patience is my particular thorn in the flesh and in spite of many requests in prayer I so far have received no help. But I must be patient!
ible.
Patience I possess only in short measure. The Biblical reference to patience (longsuffering) as a virtue can be found in Galatians 5:22-23 KJV “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law”. A lack of patience is my particular thorn in the flesh and in spite of many requests in prayer I so far have received no help. But I must be patient!
ible.
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I do not know who you were addressing, so the context might be missing, but in any written instructions context is vital. If I say that the man is mad because he shouted for 45 minutes, I would be wrong even though he shouted for 45 minutes. Why? Because he was a soccer fan at a cup final. That was the context, and the man is not mad but an enthusiast.
More than 50% of the misrepresentation of scripture on this Forum is because brothers rip a verse out of context. I am in agreement that intellect alone will not get one to the bottom of a matter, but God gave us, who created us in His likeness, the ability to reason. And He built His great Book on this premise. "Come! Let us REASON" (Isa.1:18). Have you ever thought why? Well try this. On what basis can God forgive Israel their sins? Is He not a just Judge Who MUST apply the Law? Shall not all Israel go to the Lake of Fire? They have broken the Law AND they have rejected their Messiah and His atoning work. What is there then that allows God to forgive their sins?
More than 50% of the misrepresentation of scripture on this Forum is because brothers rip a verse out of context. I am in agreement that intellect alone will not get one to the bottom of a matter, but God gave us, who created us in His likeness, the ability to reason. And He built His great Book on this premise. "Come! Let us REASON" (Isa.1:18). Have you ever thought why? Well try this. On what basis can God forgive Israel their sins? Is He not a just Judge Who MUST apply the Law? Shall not all Israel go to the Lake of Fire? They have broken the Law AND they have rejected their Messiah and His atoning work. What is there then that allows God to forgive their sins?
Man's tendency is to offer a solution. But you, with an inquiring mind, already know it. In this case my only response is to say "welcome to the club". I (1951) too have a number of "thorns", but Paul has claimed the post of "chiefest of sinners". I think this seeming lack of progress in our weakest areas has been taken into account by our most gracious God. Not that I advocate any relaxing in our attempts to please Him and go His way, but if Paul, in Philippians Chapter 3, was not yet where he ought to be, and this, just three years before his martyrdom, then I think that you and I both will not see that perfection we want to see.
Go well bro.
Go well bro.
The flesh is not reformed or transformed by God. His solution is for us to crucify it daily until it turns to dust again. Thus, after reading Romans Chapter 7 we should care for our bodies (for they make up Christ's Body), but its clamorings should be met with a relentless refusal - no easy task. Paul say in Romans 7 that it is subject to a Law and according to Galatians 5:17 this Law is prevailing.
Well has the Lord given us the Type of the flesh - Amalek.
"For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation" (Exodus 17:16)
Well has the Lord given us the Type of the flesh - Amalek.
"For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn that the LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation" (Exodus 17:16)
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The theme of this discussion is; threat of consequenses in the afterlife due to negligence in this life. To reassure the concerned, it was said the ten commandments are our moral foundation, to which i said, no, christ is our moral foundation, which you agree with when you say the moral law is much deeper than its face value, and then disagree with when you say it was written by the finger of God into stone and find yourself trying to justify this by relegating the lesson to the analogy of the stony tablet/ stony heart, allowing the deception to imply the heart of christ we have and had from the begining is/was stony instead of addressing the REAL FEAR that the abberance present today and the abberance exibited by christs contemporaries and the abberance faulted in A&E is the enemy of man at work to deny God his sovereignty on Earth, from its inception till it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.
It is harder to relate these premise to you of the arguement that we are oppressed not transgressing using scripture because scripture condemns us just as scripture condemned christ. It is much easier to say, if you doubted this idea at all, you would not be in here, and you would find no fault in the world around you.
If they were not convicted then why did they hide themselves? Reality, and common to all man: The difference between a child and an adult, clothing is not necessary, clothing is necessary, you don't agree as a child because you find it painful, or because you cause pain, you agree because you want to please your parents. This dynamic is not universal, as children born farther from the temperate zone understand immediately the need for clothing. And which of you husbands are ashamed to be naked in front of your wife?
Scripture, not common to all men: The reaction given is "I heard you in the garden, and i was afraid because i was naked." I might in my unnecessary defense of their morality say, being naked is not spoken of as transgression in the covanent, but it can make you feel ashamed. They did not know shame. I might well point out God said, every tree i give to every living thing for food. I might postulate that, since there was no guard standing before the tree of life, any animal that ate from it live forever, so what of all living things, which have no morality or logic or fellowship principals? If a lion or a tiger or a bear (OH MY!) ate from the tree, would it live forever? lol.
Some say it was only for the Jews I say not so. I hear this arguement alot. In the scripture you will find backing for it. The arguement goes, the Israelites were transgressors requiring this covenant b/c they were Godless/lawless. We aint them, forget about it, or worse, condemn them. (Here comes the Godwin law thing) I shall stop there. They were oppressed they were misled.
The deception of christs sacrifice, the threat of eternal consequence for wrong doing/ inadequecy in life are part of the same scripture which also says, the kingdoms of this world are mine, the earth and everything in it are mine. If all things were created through christ and christ gave the laws then how was he killed by these laws. When he says he drives out demons by the finger of god was he not showing the moral law he had resulted in healing and building not stoning and condemnation? Relegating the law to a mechanism of the deception which resulted in the need for healing and restoration and in his death? Not only is christ able to heal and restore, as there is no need for such services until oppression begins, which jehovah blames men for (transgression) but christ blames heart hardening (destruction).
Life is a gift!
Invocation; In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. My father who you claim as your God is the one who glorifies me, though you do not know him. Do not cling to me for i have not yet gone to the father. No one has been to heaven except the one who came from heaven, the son of man. Now the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of the lord and his christ.
It is harder to relate these premise to you of the arguement that we are oppressed not transgressing using scripture because scripture condemns us just as scripture condemned christ. It is much easier to say, if you doubted this idea at all, you would not be in here, and you would find no fault in the world around you.
If they were not convicted then why did they hide themselves? Reality, and common to all man: The difference between a child and an adult, clothing is not necessary, clothing is necessary, you don't agree as a child because you find it painful, or because you cause pain, you agree because you want to please your parents. This dynamic is not universal, as children born farther from the temperate zone understand immediately the need for clothing. And which of you husbands are ashamed to be naked in front of your wife?
Scripture, not common to all men: The reaction given is "I heard you in the garden, and i was afraid because i was naked." I might in my unnecessary defense of their morality say, being naked is not spoken of as transgression in the covanent, but it can make you feel ashamed. They did not know shame. I might well point out God said, every tree i give to every living thing for food. I might postulate that, since there was no guard standing before the tree of life, any animal that ate from it live forever, so what of all living things, which have no morality or logic or fellowship principals? If a lion or a tiger or a bear (OH MY!) ate from the tree, would it live forever? lol.
Some say it was only for the Jews I say not so. I hear this arguement alot. In the scripture you will find backing for it. The arguement goes, the Israelites were transgressors requiring this covenant b/c they were Godless/lawless. We aint them, forget about it, or worse, condemn them. (Here comes the Godwin law thing) I shall stop there. They were oppressed they were misled.
The deception of christs sacrifice, the threat of eternal consequence for wrong doing/ inadequecy in life are part of the same scripture which also says, the kingdoms of this world are mine, the earth and everything in it are mine. If all things were created through christ and christ gave the laws then how was he killed by these laws. When he says he drives out demons by the finger of god was he not showing the moral law he had resulted in healing and building not stoning and condemnation? Relegating the law to a mechanism of the deception which resulted in the need for healing and restoration and in his death? Not only is christ able to heal and restore, as there is no need for such services until oppression begins, which jehovah blames men for (transgression) but christ blames heart hardening (destruction).
Life is a gift!
Invocation; In the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. My father who you claim as your God is the one who glorifies me, though you do not know him. Do not cling to me for i have not yet gone to the father. No one has been to heaven except the one who came from heaven, the son of man. Now the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of the lord and his christ.
But people who's lot in this life being a good one, plenty of food, shelters, strength and health to work, having more then most everyone else in the world, Nice things, perhaps a new car with dressed in purple and fine leather, they are rich by comparison but in the end their riches are worthless, a distraction from their true spiritual condition in life.
I think the contrast is not have/have nots, the contrast is the world at that time, and the world at this time with the world when the oppression is gone. The riches of life and the theophany sfumato which is a world of unoppressed and unmisled people precludes many the rewards of the riches you can achieve surrounded by oppression, stratification and fulfillment, not only of possession but of fellowship, and relationship fruit. Imagine the best person you ever met. Now imagine that person having never been hurt by another or having never hurt another, imagine them never regretting a moment of their life, now imaging a world of these people. Now you can wonder, what remains of society and existance to earn?
I think the contrast is not have/have nots, the contrast is the world at that time, and the world at this time with the world when the oppression is gone. The riches of life and the theophany sfumato which is a world of unoppressed and unmisled people precludes many the rewards of the riches you can achieve surrounded by oppression, stratification and fulfillment, not only of possession but of fellowship, and relationship fruit. Imagine the best person you ever met. Now imagine that person having never been hurt by another or having never hurt another, imagine them never regretting a moment of their life, now imaging a world of these people. Now you can wonder, what remains of society and existance to earn?
I suspect much of what passes for the flesh is in fact the deceitful un-sanctified heart with its motives and desires.
I think when the heart is set right dealing with the flesh is more a matter of being willing and ready to suffer.
Hence the call to take up your cross and follow, to choose to suffer rather then satisfy the flesh so you can be His disciple.
I think when the heart is set right dealing with the flesh is more a matter of being willing and ready to suffer.
Hence the call to take up your cross and follow, to choose to suffer rather then satisfy the flesh so you can be His disciple.
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Considering all of the Patience we have been shown how can we not.
Considering all of the Mercy we have been shown how can we not.
Considering all of the Forgiveness we have been shown how can we not.
Considering all of the Grace we have been shown how can we not.
Considering all of the Love we have been shown how can we not.
We owe a great debt of all such things.
Freely you have received; freely give I believe applies here as well.
Considering all of the Mercy we have been shown how can we not.
Considering all of the Forgiveness we have been shown how can we not.
Considering all of the Grace we have been shown how can we not.
Considering all of the Love we have been shown how can we not.
We owe a great debt of all such things.
Freely you have received; freely give I believe applies here as well.
So failing to give charity is equal with the only sin Jesus declared unforgivable..
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit..
Nope... Failing to do good is not an unforgivable sin and when people start to preach that they are preaching works salvation.. One a person accepts this teaching the works bondage wedge has been inserted into their lives and it keeps on getting banged in deeper and deeper as they fall away from the truth that it is by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus that one is saved..
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit..
Nope... Failing to do good is not an unforgivable sin and when people start to preach that they are preaching works salvation.. One a person accepts this teaching the works bondage wedge has been inserted into their lives and it keeps on getting banged in deeper and deeper as they fall away from the truth that it is by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus that one is saved..
Adstar you're ranting off into the distance
Jesus was always doing good and thus setting an example, and i simply can't be bothered to point out the times he said our actions are important, i can only ask you go and re-read the gospels and not just skim them
the only real point of contention is a few places where we are not sure what is considered good or bad or not... but that's another story
there can be no falling away from the truth in doing good works, but according to you doing good works is the way to hell and the surest way to get there is by doing good! LOL, i suggest you rip out the gospels from your bible and pretend they ever existed
Jesus was always doing good and thus setting an example, and i simply can't be bothered to point out the times he said our actions are important, i can only ask you go and re-read the gospels and not just skim them
the only real point of contention is a few places where we are not sure what is considered good or bad or not... but that's another story
there can be no falling away from the truth in doing good works, but according to you doing good works is the way to hell and the surest way to get there is by doing good! LOL, i suggest you rip out the gospels from your bible and pretend they ever existed
According to strict interpretation of Biblical instruction, THERE IS NO HELL.
Before you, dear reader, submit to a knee-jerk reaction and complain of heresy - please consider the following:
What happens after death is either immortal life granted to those who've made peace with God in Christ, or absolute destruction in what is figuratively described as the Second Death (Revelation 20 & 21).
The idea of hell is nowhere promoted in the Bible.
Jesus does not manage a dungeon in the bowels of the earth and God does not get pleasure from torture. God kills. God does not enjoy torture as men do. Hades, as some call it, was actually the Greek god of the underworld. It is specifically a person/character NOT a place or destination of judgment. Look it up. This is but one example of a twisted myth to support a false doctrine - hell.
Examples of church manipulation of the hell myth are legion. Consider that words commonly associated with hell don't really imply eternal torture at all. Jesus spoke of gehenna, which was actually a waste dump outside of Jerusalem where unwanted refuse was destroyed in fire or eaten by worms. What is destroyed is permanently deleted (to use a modern equivalent term).
Fire, as in the Lake of Fire, is used as an analogy to earthly experience. Nothing long survives exposure to flame. If the reader knows of something that endures fire, then please send me a PM. I'd like to burn it in my car. Everything exposed to fire is destroyed. In the examples of Sodom and Gomorrah, not even ashes remain.
There is more, much more to this because the church has relied upon fear mongering for millennia to promote its power over us.
Nowhere does the Bible suggest that God offers immortal life to SINNERS. It is given only to those who accept it from Him, NOT to those who reject it. What sense does it make to say God gives immortal life to all? The Bible nowhere teaches that SINNERS will be given immortal life (for does not the idea of eternal punishment suggest eternal life - even of a torrid kind?)
ONLY GOD has immortal life ("who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light" - 1 Tim 6:16)
MANKIND dies like animals ("Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal" - Genesis 6:3a)
God means to have an end to SIN once and for all. If one does not repent of it in life, then it will be destroyed when one dies physical death.
Thus we now see revealed to us in all its glory and undeserved beauty the promise of the gospel - the GOOD NEWS of Christ's message to us that "whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." - John 3:16b
that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
Before you, dear reader, submit to a knee-jerk reaction and complain of heresy - please consider the following:
What happens after death is either immortal life granted to those who've made peace with God in Christ, or absolute destruction in what is figuratively described as the Second Death (Revelation 20 & 21).
The idea of hell is nowhere promoted in the Bible.
Jesus does not manage a dungeon in the bowels of the earth and God does not get pleasure from torture. God kills. God does not enjoy torture as men do. Hades, as some call it, was actually the Greek god of the underworld. It is specifically a person/character NOT a place or destination of judgment. Look it up. This is but one example of a twisted myth to support a false doctrine - hell.
Examples of church manipulation of the hell myth are legion. Consider that words commonly associated with hell don't really imply eternal torture at all. Jesus spoke of gehenna, which was actually a waste dump outside of Jerusalem where unwanted refuse was destroyed in fire or eaten by worms. What is destroyed is permanently deleted (to use a modern equivalent term).
Fire, as in the Lake of Fire, is used as an analogy to earthly experience. Nothing long survives exposure to flame. If the reader knows of something that endures fire, then please send me a PM. I'd like to burn it in my car. Everything exposed to fire is destroyed. In the examples of Sodom and Gomorrah, not even ashes remain.
There is more, much more to this because the church has relied upon fear mongering for millennia to promote its power over us.
Nowhere does the Bible suggest that God offers immortal life to SINNERS. It is given only to those who accept it from Him, NOT to those who reject it. What sense does it make to say God gives immortal life to all? The Bible nowhere teaches that SINNERS will be given immortal life (for does not the idea of eternal punishment suggest eternal life - even of a torrid kind?)
ONLY GOD has immortal life ("who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light" - 1 Tim 6:16)
MANKIND dies like animals ("Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal" - Genesis 6:3a)
God means to have an end to SIN once and for all. If one does not repent of it in life, then it will be destroyed when one dies physical death.
Thus we now see revealed to us in all its glory and undeserved beauty the promise of the gospel - the GOOD NEWS of Christ's message to us that "whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." - John 3:16b
that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
Considering all of the Patience god has been shown how can not.
Considering all of the Mercy god has been shown how can not.
Considering all of the Forgiveness god has been shown how can not.
Considering all of the Grace god has been shown how can not.
Considering all of the Love god has been shown how can not.
Mark 12:29
"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Mark 12:30
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
Mark 12:31
The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
Exodus 33:19 And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden
Romans 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?
Romans 9:23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory--
James 2:12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,
James 2:13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
The Great two commands
If God wants to have mercy on a sinner, you can't say no
If God wants to punish a sinner, you can't express your opposition
So you have no right to express who can't be forgiven or saved
Matthew 19:25
When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
Considering all of the Mercy god has been shown how can not.
Considering all of the Forgiveness god has been shown how can not.
Considering all of the Grace god has been shown how can not.
Considering all of the Love god has been shown how can not.
Mark 12:29
"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Mark 12:30
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
Mark 12:31
The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
Exodus 33:19 And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden
Romans 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?
Romans 9:23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory--
James 2:12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,
James 2:13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
The Great two commands
If God wants to have mercy on a sinner, you can't say no
If God wants to punish a sinner, you can't express your opposition
So you have no right to express who can't be forgiven or saved
Matthew 19:25
When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.