If someone just came to you and said ' I've been chosen " . You would naturally ask " chosen for what " . Once we are In Christ we are chosen to be Holy and blameless , For good works , for a certain calling . There are things God chose once a person gets In Christ they would do and be . God chose for all those who get In Christ ( Choosing how they would do this , through faith ) that they would be predestined for future glorification , The Adoption , the redemption of the body. conformed , Inheritance, The revealing of the manifestation of the sons of God. All of these things we NOW have a guarantee by the sealing of the Holy Spirit ,which is the earnest until the purchased possession. However no one is chosen TO BE saved before they existed in some secret arbitrary ' Election. This was introduced by Augustine and is still held today by Calvinists . Its a philosophy and its not biblical, inspite of its seemingly scholarly veneer and piety . Its a philosophical system that is imposed onto the text that people fall in love with because it seems to have all the answers.
Chosen by God - A study in Election
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So you are saying that God does not know beforehand whom He will save?
Answer me this: when is God doing this "giving"? Undoubtedly the element of predestination and foreknowledge is implicit in the statement. The giving precedes the coming.
John 6:37
Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away.
Answer me this: when is God doing this "giving"? Undoubtedly the element of predestination and foreknowledge is implicit in the statement. The giving precedes the coming.
John 6:37
Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away.
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That adoption was decided before the world began, as Rev.13:8 & 17:8 make clear. The names of those who were predestined were written in the book of life before the world began. Those whom God did not choose, their names were not written in book of life and therefore they will not be drawn to His Son.
Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
Jesus said "No one can come to the Son except the Father draws him." This infers that not everyone is drawn. The scripture above reveals that God the Father is the One who gave to Jesus all who were appointed to believe in Him. By saying "Everyone the Father gives Me" this infers that not everyone is given by the Father, only those who were appointed before the world began.
You can't get by or distort Rev.13:8 and 17:8, for they identify that there were names that were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, as well as names that were written in His book, both taking place before the foundation of the world. Those whom God chose for salvation was predetermined before the world began. In further support of this you have the following:
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To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word—and to this they were appointed. (1 Peter 2:8)
"When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
(Acts 13:48)
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In 1 Peter 2:8, it is stated that those mentioned were appointed to disobey by not believing the gospel, which would infer predestination. Likewise, in Acts 13:48, those Gentiles who believed were those who were appointed for salvation unto eternal life.
There are people whose names were written in the book of life before the world began. And as those people hear the gospel from generation to generation, God the Father draws them to His Son because they were appointed for salvation unto eternal life before the world began.
Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
Jesus said "No one can come to the Son except the Father draws him." This infers that not everyone is drawn. The scripture above reveals that God the Father is the One who gave to Jesus all who were appointed to believe in Him. By saying "Everyone the Father gives Me" this infers that not everyone is given by the Father, only those who were appointed before the world began.
You can't get by or distort Rev.13:8 and 17:8, for they identify that there were names that were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, as well as names that were written in His book, both taking place before the foundation of the world. Those whom God chose for salvation was predetermined before the world began. In further support of this you have the following:
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To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word—and to this they were appointed. (1 Peter 2:8)
"When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
(Acts 13:48)
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In 1 Peter 2:8, it is stated that those mentioned were appointed to disobey by not believing the gospel, which would infer predestination. Likewise, in Acts 13:48, those Gentiles who believed were those who were appointed for salvation unto eternal life.
There are people whose names were written in the book of life before the world began. And as those people hear the gospel from generation to generation, God the Father draws them to His Son because they were appointed for salvation unto eternal life before the world began.
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Predestination is not to know God ahead of time, but God to know all whom He has chosen ahead of time. For the scripture states the following:
"In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory.
"For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
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Proorizo/Predestine
Strong's Concordance
proorizó: to predetermine, foreordain
Original Word: προορίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proorizó
Phonetic Spelling: (pro-or-id'-zo)
Definition: to predetermine, foreordain
Usage: I foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand.
HELPS Word-studies
4309 proorízō (from 4253 /pró, "before" and 3724 /horízō, "establish boundaries, limits") – properly, pre-horizon, pre-determine limits (boundaries) predestine.
[4309 (proorízō) occurs six times in the NT (eight in the writings of Paul). Since the root (3724 /horízō) already means "establish boundaries," the added prefix (pro, "before") makes 4309 (proorízō) "to pre-establish boundaries," i.e. before creation.]
Strong's Concordance
proginóskó: to know beforehand
Original Word: προγινώσκω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proginóskó
Phonetic Spelling: (prog-in-oce'-ko)
Definition: to know beforehand
Usage: I know beforehand, foreknow.
HELPS Word-studies
4267 proginṓskō (from 4253 /pró, "before" and 1097 /ginṓskō, "to know") – properly, foreknow; used in the NT of "God pre-knowing all choices – and doing so without pre-determining (requiring) them" (G. Archer).
In the scriptures above, it is God who is doing the predestining. It is God who foreknew those whom He chose and that before creation.
"In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory.
"For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
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Proorizo/Predestine
Strong's Concordance
proorizó: to predetermine, foreordain
Original Word: προορίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proorizó
Phonetic Spelling: (pro-or-id'-zo)
Definition: to predetermine, foreordain
Usage: I foreordain, predetermine, mark out beforehand.
HELPS Word-studies
4309 proorízō (from 4253 /pró, "before" and 3724 /horízō, "establish boundaries, limits") – properly, pre-horizon, pre-determine limits (boundaries) predestine.
[4309 (proorízō) occurs six times in the NT (eight in the writings of Paul). Since the root (3724 /horízō) already means "establish boundaries," the added prefix (pro, "before") makes 4309 (proorízō) "to pre-establish boundaries," i.e. before creation.]
Strong's Concordance
proginóskó: to know beforehand
Original Word: προγινώσκω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: proginóskó
Phonetic Spelling: (prog-in-oce'-ko)
Definition: to know beforehand
Usage: I know beforehand, foreknow.
HELPS Word-studies
4267 proginṓskō (from 4253 /pró, "before" and 1097 /ginṓskō, "to know") – properly, foreknow; used in the NT of "God pre-knowing all choices – and doing so without pre-determining (requiring) them" (G. Archer).
In the scriptures above, it is God who is doing the predestining. It is God who foreknew those whom He chose and that before creation.
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This is what YOU say and how YOU choose to look at it. NOBODY here EVER has made this argument, it's a straw man and you can not point me to ANYONE making the ridiculous case you just beat down in your own imagination, for your own ego, thinking you're teaching someone a "thing or two".
You guys have got to start listening and interacting with what we say, YOU don't get to tell us "what we are", "what we believe", and in extreme cases, how we feel about the false beliefs you make up to attack. It's honestly getting pointless to even post on here at all with this behavior that you're displaying right here for all to see. Like you're God's police to make sure everyone believes just like you, or it's your duty to attack. Same as these Socialist Democrats now. False accusation x3 then beat down that false accusation claiming victory without ever interacting with anything actually said.
WRONG that's not what Jesus EVER taught anywhere. We are supposed to be known for our love for each other, and during my "3 day banning" not too long ago for a personal attack, I looked around the internet to see how others look at CC, and every single one of us should be ashamed, we are known for our fights. For attacking people coming in with a different view, but more for attacking each other, for being the most hate filled "Christian" site out there some describe us as. I went on quite a few site review pages, and the message ratio stayed pretty consistent, about 7-8 comments saying how horrible it is, then 1 saying there are some good folks here, but the bullies run it, then maybe 1 that said good things only, and the last would be describing how hypocritical we are. It was embarrassingly pathetic, I know I'm part of it, and I still say this is a shameful representation of our King. I don't want to start going back and forth, in fact will not do so, but I will not keep feeding into these people who will not stop causing unrest in close minded, self righteous delusion. But will call it out without being ugly, naming names, or responding back and forth fruitlessly. Please think about what I'm saying in truth and lets start being a GOOD example of Jesus for a world that needs Him more than ever.
Even though I voice grievances here to you, I still truly hope you have a fantastic day brother, praise Jesus or King.
You guys have got to start listening and interacting with what we say, YOU don't get to tell us "what we are", "what we believe", and in extreme cases, how we feel about the false beliefs you make up to attack. It's honestly getting pointless to even post on here at all with this behavior that you're displaying right here for all to see. Like you're God's police to make sure everyone believes just like you, or it's your duty to attack. Same as these Socialist Democrats now. False accusation x3 then beat down that false accusation claiming victory without ever interacting with anything actually said.
WRONG that's not what Jesus EVER taught anywhere. We are supposed to be known for our love for each other, and during my "3 day banning" not too long ago for a personal attack, I looked around the internet to see how others look at CC, and every single one of us should be ashamed, we are known for our fights. For attacking people coming in with a different view, but more for attacking each other, for being the most hate filled "Christian" site out there some describe us as. I went on quite a few site review pages, and the message ratio stayed pretty consistent, about 7-8 comments saying how horrible it is, then 1 saying there are some good folks here, but the bullies run it, then maybe 1 that said good things only, and the last would be describing how hypocritical we are. It was embarrassingly pathetic, I know I'm part of it, and I still say this is a shameful representation of our King. I don't want to start going back and forth, in fact will not do so, but I will not keep feeding into these people who will not stop causing unrest in close minded, self righteous delusion. But will call it out without being ugly, naming names, or responding back and forth fruitlessly. Please think about what I'm saying in truth and lets start being a GOOD example of Jesus for a world that needs Him more than ever.
Even though I voice grievances here to you, I still truly hope you have a fantastic day brother, praise Jesus or King.
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You have two very big problems with your position:
1) People do not choose their first birth nor by implication choose their second birth.
2) Lazarus did not resurrect himself, it was a direct intercessory miracle from Jesus Christ. So to the believer does not possess the power to resurrect themselves from their Spiritually dead condition........it is a gracious work of God, Who takes the initiative to undertake this event.
Eph 2
4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
1) People do not choose their first birth nor by implication choose their second birth.
2) Lazarus did not resurrect himself, it was a direct intercessory miracle from Jesus Christ. So to the believer does not possess the power to resurrect themselves from their Spiritually dead condition........it is a gracious work of God, Who takes the initiative to undertake this event.
Eph 2
4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
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That is not a correct comparison and cannot be applied here. For names to not be written in the book of life "From the foundation of the world" means that it was performed before creation, or in this case, not performed before creation.
At this point, I have presented many scriptures to you demonstrating that by God's Sovereign will, those whom He chose to save were predestined before the world began with their names being written in the book of life before the creation of the world. Likewise, there were names that were not written at that time. Therefore, when it gets to the point where the contendee just continues to reject all scripture, not recognizing the truth, then there is no need to continue. I have already presented the truth many times over. So, you are free to believe whatever it is that you are believing, but I will no longer debate this.
At this point, I have presented many scriptures to you demonstrating that by God's Sovereign will, those whom He chose to save were predestined before the world began with their names being written in the book of life before the creation of the world. Likewise, there were names that were not written at that time. Therefore, when it gets to the point where the contendee just continues to reject all scripture, not recognizing the truth, then there is no need to continue. I have already presented the truth many times over. So, you are free to believe whatever it is that you are believing, but I will no longer debate this.
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The question is "how". By spiritual rebirth and being resurrected from the dead?
Because if this is so then we have absolutely nothing to do with it. Period.
Spiritual rebirth is a work of God and God alone. The Bible makes it clear that we have neither the power nor the inclination to do this in and of ourselves.
Because if this is so then we have absolutely nothing to do with it. Period.
Spiritual rebirth is a work of God and God alone. The Bible makes it clear that we have neither the power nor the inclination to do this in and of ourselves.
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You fail to apprehend my point. Lazarus could not resurrect himself. Furthermore the resurrection of Lazarus (who is a believer) is a type of the resurrection of all believers. The context of John 11 does relate to salvation and eternal life....clearly.
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
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