Assurance of salvation

[throughfaith]

This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.

If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential, if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.

Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.

Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].

Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks

( borrowed from a post ,someone I know)

 

[Truth7t7]

This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.

If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential, if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.

Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.

Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].

Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks

( borrowed from a post ,someone I know)

We could try to analyze the subject of (Predestination) with our little human minds all we want?

The Lord Jesus is the Alpha/Omega, the Potter over the clay, we can't change his words below, it's that simple

Romans 8:28-30KJV
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 9:20-24KJV
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Chester]

This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.

If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential, if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.

Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.

Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].

Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks

( borrowed from a post ,someone I know)

Your analysis of TULIP has me in stitches of laughter! I doubt any believers in TULIP will take well to what you say, though there is a trickle of truth to what you say (in my opinion).

Many people base their assurance of salvation in some doctrinal belief that they hold, such as: (1) I am of the elect, or (2) I have been justified and can never be lost.

For myself, my assurance is based on the grace of God that has worked in my heart that allows me to have faith in Jesus Christ (his life, death, blood, and resurrection). I believe: I believe! and therefore I have eternal life! (because of the promises of God)

 

[DiscipleA]

I was thinking about starting a thread about salvation, too. Haha

 

[throughfaith]

We could try to analyze the subject of (Predestination) with our little human minds all we want?

The Lord Jesus is the Alpha/Omega, the Potter over the clay, we can't change his words below, it's that simple

Romans 8:28-30KJV
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 9:20-24KJV
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

I think ' predestination ' is really simple . Which is useful for me .
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
This verse is the same ( essentially) as ephesians 1 .5 and romans 8.23 .
Simply ask the question, when are we comformed to His image ? . Romans 8.23 answers this . Romans 8 .23 answers ' what are we predestined to ' and when are we predestined? Its not in eternity passed . And we are not predestined to be saved . But rather to be glorified AFTER we are saved .
we are not conformed/ adopted when we are converted . Romans 8.23 is really clear on this .
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[EleventhHour]

This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.

If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential, if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.

Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.

Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].

Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks

( borrowed from a post ,someone I know)

The problem with modern day Calvinism and many of its teachers is they teach to look to oneself, growth and change for assurance of salvation.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.

If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential, if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.

Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.

Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].

Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks

( borrowed from a post ,someone I know)

What does 2 John 5:13 mean then? Is it just a lie? Is the authors here just saying stuff?

 

[Truth7t7]

The problem with modern day Calvinism and many of its teachers is they teach to look to oneself, growth and change for assurance of salvation.

I would disagree, we as humans must follow the path put before us?

Preach, Teach, being led by the Spirit, faith is dead without works.

Predestination is a fact of scripture, the Lord showing us his eternal plan.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.

If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential, if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.

Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.

Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].

Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks

( borrowed from a post ,someone I know)

No one helplessly falls away from Christ. It is a matter of choice to do so. None of us are capable of being sinlessly perfect - only Jesus was capable of that. So all God requires of us is to accept Jesus as Lord (God) and Savior of our life - and to always prayerfully choose to live according to the gospel in daily life - I mean, sincerely. We all sin in thought or deeds every day - but as long as we are always sincerely repentant of our sins - God forgives our sins. The best protection against falling away from Christ, are:

*Putting Christ first - surrendering fully to God
*Putting on the whole armor of God always - Ephesians 6
*Praying daily for God's help, strength and guidance in daily life, as in the Lord's model prayer. The disciples forgot to do this in the garden of Gethsemane, shortly before Jesus' arrest. Jesus told them they should have been praying.

Matt 26:41

41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
KJV

2 Peter 1:10

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
KJV

1 Peter 5:8-10

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
KJV

 

[MyrtleTrees]

No one helplessly falls away from Christ. It is a matter of choice to do so. None of us are capable of being sinlessly perfect - only Jesus was capable of that. So all God requires of us is to accept Jesus as Lord (God) and Savior of our life - and to always prayerfully choose to live according to the gospel in daily life - I mean, sincerely. We all sin in thought or deeds every day - but as long as we are always sincerely repentant of our sins - God forgives our sins. The best protection against falling away from Christ, are:

*Putting Christ first - surrendering fully to God
*Putting on the whole armor of God always - Ephesians 6
*Praying daily for God's help, strength and guidance in daily life, as in the Lord's model prayer. The disciples forgot to do this in the garden of Gethsemane, shortly before Jesus' arrest. Jesus told them they should have been praying.

Matt 26:41

41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
KJV

2 Peter 1:10

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
KJV

1 Peter 5:8-10

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
KJV

And any time a Christian does turn away from God, but then sincerely repents of his sin - God forgives his sins. He never refuses to do so in this life. The only time there is no more opportunity to repent is after one has died.

 

[Grandpa]

I might depart from "classical" Calvinism in this area...

But I view Perseverence of the Saints the same way I view OSAS. The Saints WILL persevere because God has given them Eternal Life.

Basically perseverence is the Gift of God given when Salvation is given.


I have assurance of my Salvation. Not sure why this would be different from anyone else...

 

[DiscipleA]

What about Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira? (Acts 5) They were among the believers, even close to the apostles, yet they sinned against the holy spirit and were struck dead. And as we know:
Matthew 12:32 ....anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

[DiscipleA]

Romans 8:29,30 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Right, they were predestined to be conformed, not to be saved. And those he predestined, he also called. But....
Matthew 22:14 ....many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[Magenta]

What does 2 John 5:13 mean then? Is it just a lie? Is the authors here just saying stuff?

I had the same verse come to mind...

I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Perhaps these two will be useful. This is how The Westminster Confession of Faith defines 1. Perseverance and 2. Assurance.

Chapter 17: Of the Perseverance of the Saints
The 1647 Westminster Confession of Faith

1. They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.a

a. John 10:28-29; Phil 1:6; 1 Pet 1:5, 9; 2 Pet 1:10; 1 John 3:9.

2. This perseverance of the saints depends, not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;a upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ;b the abiding of the Spirit and of the seed of God within them;c and the nature of the covenant of grace:d from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.e

a. Jer 31:3; 2 Tim 2:18-19. • b. Luke 22:32; John 17:11, 24; Heb 7:25; 9:12-15; 10:10, 14; 13:20-21; Rom 8:33-39. • c. John 14:16-17; 1 John 2:27; 3:9. • d. Jer 32:40. • e. John 10:28; 2 Thes 3:3; 1 John 2:19.

3. Nevertheless they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;a and for a time continue therein:b whereby they incur God’s displeasure,c and grieve his Holy Spirit;d come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts;e have their hearts hardened,f and their consciences wounded;g hurt and scandalize others,h and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.i

a. Mat 26:70, 72, 74. • b. Psa 51 title with v. 14. • c. 2 Sam 11:27; Isa 64:5, 7, 9. • d. Eph 4:30. • e. Psa 51:8, 10, 12; Song 5:2-4, 6; Rev 2:4. • f. Isa 63:17; Mark 6:52; 16:14. • g. Psa 32:3-4; 51:8. • h. 2 Sam 12:14. • i. Psa 89:31-32; 1 Cor 11:32.​

~Deut

 

[Deuteronomy]

Chapter 18: Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation
The 1647 Westminster Confession of Faith

1. Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favour of God and estate of salvation,a which hope of theirs shall perish:b yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him, may in this life be certainly assured that they are in a state of grace,c and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.d

a. Deut 29:19; Job 8:13-14; Micah 3:11; John 8:41. • b. Mat 7:22-23. • c. 1 John 2:3; 3:14, 18-19, 21, 24; 5:13. • d. Rom 5:2, 5.

2. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope;a but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation,b the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made,c the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God:d which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.e

a. Heb 6:11, 19. • b. Heb 6:17-18. • c. 2 Cor 1:12; 2 Pet 1:4-5, 10-11; 1 John 2:3; 3:14. • d. Rom 8:15-16. • e. Eph 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor 1:21-22.

3. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it:a yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto.b And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure;c that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience,d the proper fruits of this assurance: so far is it from inclining men to looseness.e

a. Psa 88 throughout; Psa 77:1-12; Isa 50:10; Mark 9:24; 1 John 5:13. • b. 1 Cor 2:12; Eph 3:17-19; Heb 6:11-12; 1 John 4:13. • c. 2 Pet 1:10. • d. Rom 5:1-2, 5; 14:17; 15:13; Eph 1:3-4; Psa 4:6-7; 119:32. • e. Psa 130:4; Rom 6:1-2; 8:1, 12; 2 Cor 7:1; Titus 2:11-12, 14; 1 John 1:6-7; 2:1-2; 3:2-3.

4. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it; by falling into some special sin, which woundeth the conscience, and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation; by God’s withdrawing the light of his countenance, and suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness and to have no light:a yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may in due time be revived,b and by the which, in the meantime, they are supported from utter despair.c

a. Psa 31:22; 51:8, 12, 14; 77:1-10; 88 throughout; Song 5:2-3, 6; Isa 50:10; Mat 26:69-72; Eph 4:30-31. • b. Job 13:15; Psa 51:8, 12; 73:15; Isa 50:10; Luke 22:32; 1 John 3:9. • c. Psa 22:1; 88 throughout; Isa 54:7-10; Jer 32:40; Micah 7:7-9.​

~Deut

 

[throughfaith]

What does 2 John 5:13 mean then? Is it just a lie? Is the authors here just saying stuff?

Which verse ? 2 john 5.13 ?

 

[throughfaith]

I would disagree, we as humans must follow the path put before us?

Preach, Teach, being led by the Spirit, faith is dead without works.

Predestination is a fact of scripture, the Lord showing us his eternal plan.

Predestination is a word in scripture . And its always to something yet future for the believer and not once for lost people TO BE saved .

 

[Deuteronomy]

What about Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira? (Acts 5) They were among the believers, even close to the apostles, yet they sinned against the holy spirit and were struck dead. And as we know:
Matthew 12:32 ....anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Hello DiscipleA, both Ananias and Sapphira "lied" to the Holy Spirit (which is not a good idea, to say the least, but lying to Him and blaspheming Him/speaking against Him/knowingly lying about Him, and thereby committing the unpardonable sin, are two very different things).

We do not know what happened to them, of course, but I suspect that the Lord struck them dead and took them home because they had so highly compromised their future witness to the fledgling 1st Century church, and as members of it.

~Deut

 

[throughfaith]

I might depart from "classical" Calvinism in this area...

But I view Perseverence of the Saints the same way I view OSAS. The Saints WILL persevere because God has given them Eternal Life.

Basically perseverence is the Gift of God given when Salvation is given.


I have assurance of my Salvation. Not sure why this would be different from anyone else...

Why do you have to persevere? are you not saved now ?