Jesus has sinned, and the Holy Spirit and Satan are only symbolic???

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L

LynnJ

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#1
#1
I personally believe that Jesus led a sinless life and that the Holy Spirit and Satan are real and not just symbols for good and evil. But look at these startling statistics compiled by the Barna Group from self-described Christians in America:

22% strongly believe that Jesus sinned during his life on earth

40% strongly agreed that Satan is not real but only a symbol of evil

38% strongly agreed and 20% agreed somewhat that the Holy Spirit is merely “a symbol of God’s power or presence but is not a living entity

19% agreed strongly and 22% agreed somewhat that “the Bible, the Koran and the Book of Mormon are all different expressions of the same spiritual truths"

For more details about these and additional statistics, follow this link:

http://www.barna.org/barna-update/a...ot-believe-that-satan-or-the-holy-spirit-exis

It would appear that American Christians need to spend more time reading the Word of God so that these basic matters of biblical doctrine are correctly settled in our hearts.
 
W

watchmen

Banned
#2
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
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#2
LynnJ said:
I personally believe that Jesus led a sinless life and that the Holy Spirit and Satan are real and not just symbols for good and evil. But look at these startling statistics compiled by the Barna Group from self-described Christians in America:

22% strongly believe that Jesus sinned during his life on earth

40% strongly agreed that Satan is not real but only a symbol of evil

38% strongly agreed and 20% agreed somewhat that the Holy Spirit is merely “a symbol of God’s power or presence but is not a living entity

19% agreed strongly and 22% agreed somewhat that “the Bible, the Koran and the Book of Mormon are all different expressions of the same spiritual truths"

For more details about these and additional statistics, follow this link:

http://www.barna.org/barna-update/a...ot-believe-that-satan-or-the-holy-spirit-exis

It would appear that American Christians need to spend more time reading the Word of God so that these basic matters of biblical doctrine are correctly settled in our hearts.
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WOW!!! This tells you the state of Christianity today.
 
L

LynnJ

Guest
#3
#3
I was quite surprised at those stats!
 
P

Piano_hero

Banned
#4
Apr 19, 2009
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The satan one is irrelevant since most peopel are not demon possessed , satans existence is meaningless to us. we are doing just fine without a satan . our flesh is teh biggest enemy . there are poepel on teh other end of that spectrum that think that satan is everywhere adn every time we do somethign wrong, satan was there making us do it . so everyone is insane .

and as far as the "sinless" thing. the reason people can beleive that Jesus commited errors in his life is because to be "sinless" doesnt mean that one NEVER sinned .
"But now Christ has brought you back to God by dying in his physical body. He did this so that you could come into God's presence without sin, fault, or blame."
this verse talks about US being sinless . because if one is forgiven then he is sinless . one must be sinless to enter teh kingdom. The BIble never explicitly says that JEsus didnt sin when he was 12 etc . His ministry starts at 30 after being filled with the Holy Spirit in teh dessert at which point i believe without a doubt that he didnt sin. but the BIble makes no explicit mention of his life before this other than a few accounts, ALthough it is entirely possible that he literlaly never sinned , just as Caleb and Joshua did. Job was doing fine, up until his trial
 
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watchmen

Banned
#5
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
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#5
LynnJ said:
I was quite surprised at those stats!
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Not me, God told me (when I was first converted) that only 20% of people that go to church on Sundays, claiming to be Christians are actually on there way to Heaven. At the time I though ''Wow that is a small percentage'', but after living as a chrisatian, studying scripture, and observing the fruit of others, I think it is a larger percentage than it seems like. From what I see, it seems like even less than 20% of so called christians are really serving God
 
P

Piano_hero

Banned
#6
Apr 19, 2009
173
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#6
watchmen said:
Not me, God told me (when I was first converted) that only 20% of people that go to church on Sundays, claiming to be Christians are actually on there way to Heaven. At the time I though ''Wow that is a small percentage'', but after living as a chrisatian, studying scripture, and observing the fruit of others, I think it is a larger percentage than it seems like. From what I see, it seems like even less than 20% of so called christians are really serving God
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i think its more like 0.04 percent . 20 is too optimistic
 
C

carpetmanswife

Guest
#7
#7
Piano_hero said:
The satan one is irrelevant since most peopel are not demon possessed , satans existence is meaningless to us. we are doing just fine without a satan . our flesh is teh biggest enemy . there are poepel on teh other end of that spectrum that think that satan is everywhere adn every time we do somethign wrong, satan was there making us do it . so everyone is insane .

and as far as the "sinless" thing. the reason people can beleive that Jesus commited errors in his life is because to be "sinless" doesnt mean that one NEVER sinned .
"But now Christ has brought you back to God by dying in his physical body. He did this so that you could come into God's presence without sin, fault, or blame."
this verse talks about US being sinless . because if one is forgiven then he is sinless . one must be sinless to enter teh kingdom. The BIble never explicitly says that JEsus didnt sin when he was 12 etc . His ministry starts at 30 after being filled with the Holy Spirit in teh dessert at which point i believe without a doubt that he didnt sin. but the BIble makes no explicit mention of his life before this other than a few accounts, ALthough it is entirely possible that he literlaly never sinned , just as Caleb and Joshua did. Job was doing fine, up until his trial
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Hebrew 4: 15 Jesus was without sin. :)
 
W

watchmen

Banned
#9
Apr 23, 2009
2,253
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Piano_hero said:
but i already explained how we are without sin aswell . that doesnt mean we never sinned in our life . when one is cleaned by God, he is without sin
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Are you suggesting Jesus did sin?
 
B

BLC

Banned
#10
Feb 28, 2009
711
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#10
carpetmanswife said:
Hebrew 4: 15 Jesus was without sin. :)
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Add these verses;
1Pt 2:22 'Who did no sin'...
2Cor 5:21 ...'who knew no sin'...

If there was any sin in Christ, mental attitude sin or even one thought or imagination outside the will of His Father, then He would not have been the sacrificial Lamb without spot or blemish (1Pt 1:19). If any sin was in His life, right up through childhood, His sacrifice would not have put away sin and we would have no hope for salvation. He did not sin against His Father or mother or siblings or any man or woman. When He got angry with the Pharisees and the money changers in the temple, He did not sin. He never sinned on the Sabbath. His hatred was perfect (Psalm 139:21,22). His love never had an evil thought and was perfect and never failed one time (1Cor 13:4-8). He was perfectly just when He did not condemn the adulterous woman that was brought to Him in the temple (Mt 21:12). He never lied because He was not born speaking lies like we are (Ps 58:3). He was not conceived in sin like we are (Ps 51:5). Every word from His mouth was without guile (1Pt 2:22). He had no sin of omission because He did always those things that pleased the Father (John 8:29), always being about His Father's business (Luke 2:29). He never took one step that was no ordered by His Father (Psalm 37:23, Mt 3:17, 2Pt 1:17). He was perfect, just and right in all His ways and dealings with men (Deut 32:4).​

That is why John the Baptist, the preacher of repentance and the voice that cried in the wilderness, could say with all conviction, 'Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world' (John 1:29). If there is any out there that believes that Christ did sin, they are full of the wrong water.​
 
K

KingdomGeneration

Guest
#11
#11
watchmen said:
Not me, God told me (when I was first converted) that only 20% of people that go to church on Sundays, claiming to be Christians are actually on there way to Heaven. At the time I though ''Wow that is a small percentage'', but after living as a chrisatian, studying scripture, and observing the fruit of others, I think it is a larger percentage than it seems like. From what I see, it seems like even less than 20% of so called christians are really serving God
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I agree completely. It is imparitive that we look at one's fruit for evidence of true conversion. The bible tells us that false prophets will come who appear as sheep but on the inside they are as ravenous wolves. I'll be the first admit that I'm not perfect and I've made my share of rookie mistakes here and there and for that I am repentant.

However, if there is one thing I have learned from what time I have spent talking and dealing people of different beliefs, it is this: Religious pride seems to be prevalent in most cases and humility is almost nonexistent. A very bad sign in deed!
 
T

Thaddaeus

Banned
#12
Jan 31, 2009
2,225
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#12
there was another pole taken by the same group not long ago. the question was; is God the top priority in your life? only 15% of regular church goers say that God was top priority in their life
 
N

NoahsMom

Guest
#13
#13
WOW...thats scarey.
 
P

Piano_hero

Banned
#14
Apr 19, 2009
173
0
0
#14
BLC said:
Add these verses;
1Pt 2:22 'Who did no sin'...
2Cor 5:21 ...'who knew no sin'...

If there was any sin in Christ, mental attitude sin or even one thought or imagination outside the will of His Father, then He would not have been the sacrificial Lamb without spot or blemish (1Pt 1:19). If any sin was in His life, right up through childhood, His sacrifice would not have put away sin and we would have no hope for salvation. He did not sin against His Father or mother or siblings or any man or woman. When He got angry with the Pharisees and the money changers in the temple, He did not sin. He never sinned on the Sabbath. His hatred was perfect (Psalm 139:21,22). His love never had an evil thought and was perfect and never failed one time (1Cor 13:4-8). He was perfectly just when He did not condemn the adulterous woman that was brought to Him in the temple (Mt 21:12). He never lied because He was not born speaking lies like we are (Ps 58:3). He was not conceived in sin like we are (Ps 51:5). Every word from His mouth was without guile (1Pt 2:22). He had no sin of omission because He did always those things that pleased the Father (John 8:29), always being about His Father's business (Luke 2:29). He never took one step that was no ordered by His Father (Psalm 37:23, Mt 3:17, 2Pt 1:17). He was perfect, just and right in all His ways and dealings with men (Deut 32:4).​

That is why John the Baptist, the preacher of repentance and the voice that cried in the wilderness, could say with all conviction, 'Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world' (John 1:29). If there is any out there that believes that Christ did sin, they are full of the wrong water.​
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Jesus did have thoughts outside the "will" of his Father. He prayed that his Fathers will be done and not his . but it isnt a sin to "think" things . If i am tempted by a woman and i WANT to have sex with her but i abstain because she is married, i did righteously . If i see a homeless man , and i think "oh, what if the christians criticize me for feeding the homeless" but i ignroe that thought, and give to the homeless man, i did righteousness .
 
P

Piano_hero

Banned
#15
Apr 19, 2009
173
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#15
Thaddaeus said:
there was another pole taken by the same group not long ago. the question was; is God the top priority in your life? only 15% of regular church goers say that God was top priority in their life
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thatHAS to be false, because every Christan would answer "yes" even if it wasnt true
 
P

Piano_hero

Banned
#16
Apr 19, 2009
173
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#16
watchmen said:
Are you suggesting Jesus did sin?
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no, im suggesting that if he had erred when he was 16 , it wouldnt matter (as far as i understand) . but the point im making is that although he could have been sinless in THAT sense, its irrelevant . As if it turned out that he wasnt perfect, i woudlt go "OH THEN I DONT BELIEVE THE BIBLE ANYMORE" . but it is entirely possible that he never sinned since other humans did it liek caleb, and joshua . If a man sins when he is young adn grows up to be a righteous man , his past deeds are irrelevant and he is justified so thats the point i was trying to make, not trying to imply that there is evidence to think he sinned
 
W

watchmen

Banned
#17
Apr 23, 2009
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#17
Piano_hero said:
no, im suggesting that if he had erred when he was 16 , it wouldnt matter (as far as i understand) . but the point im making is that although he could have been sinless in THAT sense, its irrelevant . As if it turned out that he wasnt perfect, i woudlt go "OH THEN I DONT BELIEVE THE BIBLE ANYMORE" . but it is entirely possible that he never sinned since other humans did it liek caleb, and joshua . If a man sins when he is young adn grows up to be a righteous man , his past deeds are irrelevant and he is justified so thats the point i was trying to make, not trying to imply that there is evidence to think he sinned
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Caleb, Joshua, Abraham, ect... none of them were the spotless Lamb of God.
 
L

Loloy

Guest
#19
#19
Just read the Bible....

It's all up to you if you believe...

WARNING: Lot's of false teachings do not believe on them... Let the Holy Spirit be the Judge...
 
L

LynnJ

Guest
#20
#20
I didn't realize that some Christians here would begin a conversation about whether Jesus led a sinless life. That fact should be settled for the Christian believer. I am surprised at a couple of turns that this thread has taken. I was simply trying to show some interesting stats. :)

Loloy, thanks for your admonishment for us to read the Bible.

And thanks to all of you for taking the time to read my OP and respond.
 
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