Chosen by God - A study in Election
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Are you gonna sit here all night and criticize every word I write? Why don't you think for yourself for a change and actually do some of your own research and Bible study?
Frankly my back hurts from carrying you around on it for all of dozens these pages.
Oh well I guess some people are leaders and some people are followers eh?
Frankly my back hurts from carrying you around on it for all of dozens these pages.
Oh well I guess some people are leaders and some people are followers eh?
You persist with the same proof texts when they've already been addressed. Romans 9-11 is discussing the Jewish people as a collective and explaining how God remains just while transitioning from the nation of Israel as His elect to the body of Christ. It is not speaking of particular election but collective election, which you would understand if you understood the central question of the book of Romans.
Ephesians 1 is a doxology, it's purpose is not to set doctrine but to praise God. Therefore it would be highly unnatural to speak of man's end in salvation, yet it states that man must hear and then believe. It does not say "when you heard and God caused you to believe" but attributes the belief to the individual themselves. So even in your proof text there is reason to reject your doctrine.
Ephesians 1 is a doxology, it's purpose is not to set doctrine but to praise God. Therefore it would be highly unnatural to speak of man's end in salvation, yet it states that man must hear and then believe. It does not say "when you heard and God caused you to believe" but attributes the belief to the individual themselves. So even in your proof text there is reason to reject your doctrine.
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I guess all those great men of Calvinism ... Spurgeon... Pink... ... MacArthur etc., etc., missed this part.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:18-21
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:18-21
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The irony of this post is palpable. You tell me to do Bible study, yet you repeatedly direct to Pink, Spurgeon, and MacArthur from which you are drawing your doctrine and not answering the simple charge I've laid at your feet. How about you take your own advice and let the Bible speak for itself rather than seeking to make it fit doctrines of men?
The more you bluster and declare yourself a winner the more your pride shows. Yet you haven't addressed my criticism, which has remained the same throughout, that you build your doctrine based on pretexts and do not understand Scripture in its own context.
The more you bluster and declare yourself a winner the more your pride shows. Yet you haven't addressed my criticism, which has remained the same throughout, that you build your doctrine based on pretexts and do not understand Scripture in its own context.
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You missed the point again. However you have clearly promoted unconditional election (U from TULIP) since this is what you said earlier. And that is indeed Calvin's theology:
"It is double predestination that is a false doctrine. Election is however boilerplate. [meaning that it is embedded in Scripture] It is clear from Rom 9 that God is not choosing those to be damned. Why? God does not need to......they are condemned already (John 3:18)." [Which is a dodge]
And in my quotations from Calvin regarding John 1:29 (above), it was clear that Calvin himself REFUTED you, himself, and Reformed Theology regarding election. Do you still not get it, or are you being obtuse because you have nowhere to run and hide?
"It is double predestination that is a false doctrine. Election is however boilerplate. [meaning that it is embedded in Scripture] It is clear from Rom 9 that God is not choosing those to be damned. Why? God does not need to......they are condemned already (John 3:18)." [Which is a dodge]
And in my quotations from Calvin regarding John 1:29 (above), it was clear that Calvin himself REFUTED you, himself, and Reformed Theology regarding election. Do you still not get it, or are you being obtuse because you have nowhere to run and hide?
What you propose is complete and utter nonsense.
The core issue with Romans 9 and Romans 11 is God's sovereign choice aka ELECTION (and the lack thereof!) and unbelief. And to say that Ephesians ch 1 is merely a doxology with no relevant content amounts to the wild ravings of a lunatic apostate. Which at this point I truly believe that you are! Yes at this point I am very comfortable in saying you are in fact an apostate.
Rom 9:11
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—
Rom 11:5
So then also, in the present time, there has been a remnant according to the election of grace.
Go ahead, make a fool of yourself and deny that election even so much as mentioned in Romans.
The core issue with Romans 9 and Romans 11 is God's sovereign choice aka ELECTION (and the lack thereof!) and unbelief. And to say that Ephesians ch 1 is merely a doxology with no relevant content amounts to the wild ravings of a lunatic apostate. Which at this point I truly believe that you are! Yes at this point I am very comfortable in saying you are in fact an apostate.
Rom 9:11
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—
Rom 11:5
So then also, in the present time, there has been a remnant according to the election of grace.
Go ahead, make a fool of yourself and deny that election even so much as mentioned in Romans.
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Calvinism has hijacked the words, “chose”, “chosen”, “elect”, “election” and “predestinate” and perverted and denied the true definition.
The true definition is NOT “chose”, “chosen”, “elect”, “election” for salvation.
When the Bible talks about being “chosen” or “elect” or “election”, it is referring to individuals who have willingly believed, NOT
forcibly believed the gospel of John 3:16 and are saved that are “chosen”/”elected” AFTER salvation.
The true definition is NOT “chose”, “chosen”, “elect”, “election” for salvation.
When the Bible talks about being “chosen” or “elect” or “election”, it is referring to individuals who have willingly believed, NOT
forcibly believed the gospel of John 3:16 and are saved that are “chosen”/”elected” AFTER salvation.
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I take your rejection as a badge of honor.
As for Romans 9-11, it is God's sovereign purpose at issue but the quotes Paul uses and the lead up in Romans 1-8 make it clear that Paul is speaking to "children of Abraham" about why they have been displaced, and how God has chosen to show mercy to the gentiles through their rejection. Paul is explaining how this has been the plan from the beginning. God's 'purpose of election" is referring to the election of the Jews rather than an election unto salvation.
As for Ephesians not being useful for doctrine, that's a twisting of what I have actually stated. It is simply that the original purpose of being a doxology must be understood as the principle meaning rather than imposing doctrine onto the text and taking that doxology to justify it.
As for Romans 9-11, it is God's sovereign purpose at issue but the quotes Paul uses and the lead up in Romans 1-8 make it clear that Paul is speaking to "children of Abraham" about why they have been displaced, and how God has chosen to show mercy to the gentiles through their rejection. Paul is explaining how this has been the plan from the beginning. God's 'purpose of election" is referring to the election of the Jews rather than an election unto salvation.
As for Ephesians not being useful for doctrine, that's a twisting of what I have actually stated. It is simply that the original purpose of being a doxology must be understood as the principle meaning rather than imposing doctrine onto the text and taking that doxology to justify it.
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I cannot even imagine upon the examination of the life of Christ on this earth believing He was not desiring that all would come to repentance and only favored an few.
It is incomprehensible to me, both from my objective knowledge of Him according to scripture and the Spirit of God within me.
Unfathomable and tragic that anyone can create such a different Saviour.
It is incomprehensible to me, both from my objective knowledge of Him according to scripture and the Spirit of God within me.
Unfathomable and tragic that anyone can create such a different Saviour.
You said: "God's 'purpose of election" is referring to the election of the Jews rather than an election unto salvation."
That is absolute apostate rubbish.
Rom 11:5
So then ALSO, in the present time, there has been a REMNANT according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:8
What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained [[[ ""IT""]]], but the rest were hardened,
Who are these PRESENT (the time of Pauls writing) elect remnant that Paul is referring to?
They are Jewish converts to Christianity!
What exactly is this ""IT"" that they have obtained?
True righteousness that ONLY COMES with the belief in the risen Savior the Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes indeed the text is utterly unassailable in stating that ALL JEWISH CHRISTIANS in the Pauls day were the ELECT REMNANT chosen OUT OF the nation Israel by God to be saved.
That is absolute apostate rubbish.
Rom 11:5
So then ALSO, in the present time, there has been a REMNANT according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:8
What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained [[[ ""IT""]]], but the rest were hardened,
Who are these PRESENT (the time of Pauls writing) elect remnant that Paul is referring to?
They are Jewish converts to Christianity!
What exactly is this ""IT"" that they have obtained?
True righteousness that ONLY COMES with the belief in the risen Savior the Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes indeed the text is utterly unassailable in stating that ALL JEWISH CHRISTIANS in the Pauls day were the ELECT REMNANT chosen OUT OF the nation Israel by God to be saved.
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