Job 1:6, Job 2:2, and Omniscience

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
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#1
twice in the opening scenes of the book of Job, the Sons of God are presenting themselves before Him, "and Satan also" among them
God asks him, "
from where do you come?"

taking two things for granted, axiomatically:

  • this is not an idle question
  • God isn't asking because He doesn't know
there's a natural question -- why does God say this to him?

does the real reason for & import of this question comment on the book as an whole?
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#2
twice in the opening scenes of the book of Job, the Sons of God are presenting themselves before Him, "and Satan also" among them
God asks him, "
from where do you come?"


taking two things for granted, axiomatically:
  • this is not an idle question
  • God isn't asking because He doesn't know
there's a natural question -- why does God say this to him?

does the real reason for & import of this question comment on the book as an whole?
It is not said directly why Jehovah asked Satan this. But we have some evidence to consider.

From Isaiah Chapter 14 and Ezekiel Chapter 28 we have an indication of how the "principalities and powers" work. They are earthly, but steered by a heavenly being. And Satan receives two tiles - one from our Lord Jesus and one from Paul. In the gospel of John, our Lord Jesus thrice calls Satan "the Prince of this world", and Paul, in Ephesians 2, calls him, "the Prince of the power of the air". This gives Satan a position ON EARTH whereby he may exercise power over the men who rule the earth. In 1st Peter 5:8 he is a "roaring lion walking about" where men may be devoured - the earth. And in the temptation of our Lord Jesus in Luke, Satan claims to be able to give the kingdoms of this earth to who he wants without our Lord contradicting him (Lk.4:5-6).

But we also know that in heaven Satan holds no such power. In His prayer to the Father to send His heavenly Kingdom to earth, our Lord Jesus says in Matthew 6:10, "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." That is, whatever power Satan has, it is subject to God whilst he is in heaven.

Now why is this remarkable? It is because if Job "eschewed evil", then there was a sphere in his domain ON EARTH where he was not "prince" any more. And to rub salt in the wound, God rewarded this lifestyle of Job's with a fence around Job where Satan could not go in. Satan's domain was breached. His claim as "prince of this world" was shredded. And so it was with Israel. When Israel sought the Lord with all their heart, and kept God's Laws, the nation of Israel was invincible. This kingdom of men too shredded Satan's title and reputation. And why was this important? It was a terrible slight to Satan to be obviously not master of earth, when he aspired to be master of heaven (Isa.14:13-14).

Of course, his quest failed in the matter of Job for we hear not a word of Satan again after Chapter 2. And then some 2,000 years later came One greater in righteousness than Job. Satan had his "hour of darkness" with this Man (Lk.22:53) too, but this time we hear of Satan again, for he is "judged" and "cast out". What a defeat for Satan! The Heir to the EARTH - Jesus, "Who was made lower than the angels", and Who was made of the EARTH, is elevated to the "right hand of the Majesty on high" with "all authority in heaven and on earth" given Him. And because of Jesus, we learn of a new kingdom on earth - the Church (Rev.1:9). Again Satan's domain is divided. Then, when the Overcoming Disciples of Jesus - men, are caught to heaven, no place for Satan is found there (Rev.12). Revelation 11 says that the Kingdoms of this world "have become" the Kingdoms of our Lord Jesus. Finally, when Christ returns to EARTH, no place is found ON EARTH for Satan. The once "high-flyer" and heavenly Cherub, is banished to a prison below the earth (Rev.20)
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
113
#3
twice in the opening scenes of the book of Job, the Sons of God are presenting themselves before Him, "and Satan also" among them
God asks him, "
from where do you come?"


taking two things for granted, axiomatically:
  • this is not an idle question
  • God isn't asking because He doesn't know
there's a natural question -- why does God say this to him?

does the real reason for & import of this question comment on the book as an whole?
God asked him, so that he could give an account off himself to God...

Simple as that!
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
113
#4
It is not said directly why Jehovah asked Satan this. But we have some evidence to consider.

From Isaiah Chapter 14 and Ezekiel Chapter 28 we have an indication of how the "principalities and powers" work. They are earthly, but steered by a heavenly being. And Satan receives two tiles - one from our Lord Jesus and one from Paul. In the gospel of John, our Lord Jesus thrice calls Satan "the Prince of this world", and Paul, in Ephesians 2, calls him, "the Prince of the power of the air". This gives Satan a position ON EARTH whereby he may exercise power over the men who rule the earth. In 1st Peter 5:8 he is a "roaring lion walking about" where men may be devoured - the earth. And in the temptation of our Lord Jesus in Luke, Satan claims to be able to give the kingdoms of this earth to who he wants without our Lord contradicting him (Lk.4:5-6).

But we also know that in heaven Satan holds no such power. In His prayer to the Father to send His heavenly Kingdom to earth, our Lord Jesus says in Matthew 6:10, "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." That is, whatever power Satan has, it is subject to God whilst he is in heaven.

Now why is this remarkable? It is because if Job "eschewed evil", then there was a sphere in his domain ON EARTH where he was not "prince" any more. And to rub salt in the wound, God rewarded this lifestyle of Job's with a fence around Job where Satan could not go in. Satan's domain was breached. His claim as "prince of this world" was shredded. And so it was with Israel. When Israel sought the Lord with all their heart, and kept God's Laws, the nation of Israel was invincible. This kingdom of men too shredded Satan's title and reputation. And why was this important? It was a terrible slight to Satan to be obviously not master of earth, when he aspired to be master of heaven (Isa.14:13-14).

Of course, his quest failed in the matter of Job for we hear not a word of Satan again after Chapter 2. And then some 2,000 years later came One greater in righteousness than Job. Satan had his "hour of darkness" with this Man (Lk.22:53) too, but this time we hear of Satan again, for he is "judged" and "cast out". What a defeat for Satan! The Heir to the EARTH - Jesus, "Who was made lower than the angels", and Who was made of the EARTH, is elevated to the "right hand of the Majesty on high" with "all authority in heaven and on earth" given Him. And because of Jesus, we learn of a new kingdom on earth - the Church (Rev.1:9). Again Satan's domain is divided. Then, when the Overcoming Disciples of Jesus - men, are caught to heaven, no place for Satan is found there (Rev.12). Revelation 11 says that the Kingdoms of this world "have become" the Kingdoms of our Lord Jesus. Finally, when Christ returns to EARTH, no place is found ON EARTH for Satan. The once "high-flyer" and heavenly Cherub, is banished to a prison below the earth (Rev.20)
Dear me, you are long winded!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
13,120
113
#5
God asked him, so that he could give an account off himself to God...

Simple as that!
but God doesn't need an account from anyone -- He knows exactly where Satan has been and what he has been doing without anyone reporting to Him about it. He's God ((my axiom #2 in the OP))

so why ask? not that there's no reason ((my axiom #1 in the OP)) - God doesn't waste His words; there has to be a reason. what is the purpose of asking? of making Satan give an account to Him? for who's sake does God demand Satan tell this?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,599
3,528
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#6
twice in the opening scenes of the book of Job, the Sons of God are presenting themselves before Him, "and Satan also" among them
God asks him, "
from where do you come?"


taking two things for granted, axiomatically:
  • this is not an idle question
  • God isn't asking because He doesn't know
there's a natural question -- why does God say this to him?

does the real reason for & import of this question comment on the book as an whole?
Why Should we not take it literally? What’s in the passage that indicates to the reader not to take what is being said at face value?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,599
3,528
113
#7
And what about Jonah and Nineveh? Did God send Jonah to Nineveh to lie to them about being destroyed in forty days?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
13,120
113
#8
Why Should we not take it literally? What’s in the passage that indicates to the reader not to take what is being said at face value?
i'm not taking any of that anything less than literally ?

taking it literally, one of three things is true:
  1. omniscient God is actually ignorant of Satan's doings & whereabouts
  2. God asks this question ((and has it recorded in scripture for us to read)) pointlessly, in vanity
  3. God has a reason for doing and saying what He says and does
i am ruling out options 1 & 2 from first principles -
- Isaiah 55:11 justifies my axiom #1 and Hebrews 4:13, my axiom #2 ((each taken literally))
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
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#9
And what about Jonah and Nineveh? Did God send Jonah to Nineveh to lie to them about being destroyed in forty days?
knowing you will not drop it, i hand you an egg.
i tell you after handing it to you that if you drop it it will break.
does that make me a liar?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
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#10
but God doesn't need an account from anyone --
You are mistaken, read 2Chron 18v1-27...

Also, each individual Christian when standing before the Lord Jesus at His Second Coming, being judged, will have to give an account of themselves...
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
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#11
You are mistaken, read 2Chron 18v1-27...

Also, each individual Christian when standing before the Lord Jesus at His Second Coming, being judged, will have to give an account of themselves...
i don't understand which part of 2 Chronicles 18 or the judgement you think means God doesn't know all things?

 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
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#12
i don't understand which part of 2 Chronicles 18 or the judgement you think means God doesn't know all things?
God certainly does know ALL things, BUT He does require an account from His freewill beings as well!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,599
3,528
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#13
knowing you will not drop it, i hand you an egg.
i tell you after handing it to you that if you drop it it will break.
does that make me a liar?
No ifs in the book of Jonah but a clear declaration of destruction. God says, “yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown.“ Again no ifs...
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#14
It's possible that God already knew the thoughts of Satan and what he was about to ask.
Reading a bit more we see that Satan is hindered by the hedge that God has around job and his family.
It's possible that the Lord wanted to see if Satan would present his intent truthfully.
But...if we are speculating it leads to assumtion which is not a good practice.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
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#15
God certainly does know ALL things, BUT He does require an account from His freewill beings as well!
yes, so why?
God also doesn't do things in vain, but for His purpose - why is He making Satan say this, then, there?

we've ruled out '
because God doesn't know and wants to find out, so He needs the father of lies to inform Him' :)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,599
3,528
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#16
yes, so why?
God also doesn't do things in vain, but for His purpose - why is He making Satan say this, then, there?


we've ruled out 'because God doesn't know and wants to find out, so He needs the father of lies to inform Him' :)
Notice in verse 8 that God knew the purpose of Satan going about the earth. He was seeking those that feared God. I believe Satan was seeking the seed line to devour it. He has lost track since the dispersion of man at Babel.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#17
there's a natural question -- why does God say this to him?
Satan was made to confess that he had been up to no good -- looking for ways to do evil or accuse the saints. He did assign evil motives to Job and God.
does the real reason for & import of this question comment on the book as an whole?
Satan became the primary source for all of Job's troubles. So he was an important player in this tragedy.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
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#18
Satan was made to confess that he had been up to no good -- looking for ways to do evil or accuse the saints. He did assign evil motives to Job and God.
confessed before the angels, right? including himself?
because that's the immediate audience, together with God, to Whom it isn't 'news'

is it significant that Satan has been roaming about the earth? not his 'first estate'?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,645
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#20
Notice in verse 8 that God knew the purpose of Satan going about the earth. He was seeking those that feared God. I believe Satan was seeking the seed line to devour it. He has lost track since the dispersion of man at Babel.

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
it's interesting that in the garden, Satan's sentence is that he will 'eat dust' and he is called cursed 'above all cattle'
-- and here we have him roaming the fields, as it were, and seeking out dust, as you intimate: because man is dust ((Gen. 3:19, e.g.))


in a sense God says, this particular dust, Job, have you considered him? like the tree of life, a 'fruit' Satan is unable to attain

& He's making all this known before the angels, who are presenting themselves before The Throne