Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

[OIC1965]

To be honest, I think the key words are free will towards the TRUE good. We can seek God, we can believe the gospel, we can call on the Lord, but those are responses to the Call, ( which goes out to all men and salvation is offered genuinely to all), yet how can we have a free will towards that which we do not know. We cannot know the true good apart from the knowledge of what is truly good, which comes from God.

The preaching of the cross is foolishness to us until it is revealed both by Word and Spirit.

In addition, I don’t think we really seek the true good until we at least receive light from God, because we do not know the True good, the true good being God. In other words, there is no true good apart from the truly good that comes from God

But there are things in this statement I am not in full agreement with.

Eternally Grateful, are you ok with what I said here. Let me know if there are any points you disagree with.

 

[John146]

I
Must have missed the beginning of your discussion. Maybe you said something that keyed them? But I have seen nothing Calvinistic in anything you have said. I think they are just on a witch hunt and they have no one else to argue with them

God choosing select people to be in Christ before the foundation of the world is Calvinism at its core.

 

[OIC1965]

God choosing select people TO BE in Christ before the foundation of the world is Calvinism at its core.

You changed the entire meaning of the phrase by adding the words “TO BE”. No one stated Ephesians 1:4 this way.

Also, the use of the words “select people” is misleading. The correct words are He chose us, not we are select people.

That’s where the confusion is coming from. You are adding words to what is said.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

I agree with all of this, except that there is a conception that precedes the new birth, but it is God who conceived us. Born again of incorruptable seed.

If anyone wants to debate any part, name it. There is scripture to defend all of it.

what do you mean by a conception that precedes the new birth??

 

[OIC1965]

what do you mean by a conception that precedes the new birth??

The seed of the Word is planted,right?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

If you’re saying I’m ignorant Of Calvinism ,you’re wrong. Tell me, where I have misrepresented Calvinism

If you’re not talking about me, I apologize.

Not you in particular because I am not sure where you are on the doctrines of grace.
Just a general observation and not on just this topic

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The seed of the Word is planted,right?

Actually the new birth has to come first......because the natural man is dead to spiritual things.
1 Cor 2:1 actually calls the natural man a CORPSE. the word 'dead' in scripture means corpse. Check you Strong's
Nothing deadier or stinkier than a corpse.

 

[OIC1965]

Not you in particular because I am not sure where you are on the doctrines of grace.
Just a general observation and not on just this topic

Got it. I think I understand DoG as much as most Calvinists, but I am not in full agreement on them. But I have respect for Calvinists and consider them brethren.

 

[OIC1965]

Actually the new birth has to come first......because the natural man is dead to spiritual things.
1 Cor 2:1 actually calls the natural man a CORPSE. the word 'dead' in scripture means corpse. Check you Strong's
Nothing deadier or stinkier than a corpse.

1 Peter 1:23

1 John 3:9.

 

[OIC1965]

Not you in particular because I am not sure where you are on the doctrines of grace.
Just a general observation and not on just this topic

I do apologize for assuming and getting defensive too...

As to seed, I believe we are quickened by the Spirit and the Word. See verses above.

 

[OIC1965]

I do apologize for assuming and getting defensive too...

As to seed, I believe we are quickened by the Spirit and the Word. See verses above.

Anyways, I think I will exit the discussion now. Thanks to everyone who participated.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

1 Peter 1:23

1 John 3:9.

1 John 3:0 notice that it says BORN of God before it mentions the seed (scripture) abiding in him
1 Peter 1:23 been BORNagain, (you cannot ignore v3 and just move on to one that suits your belief.)

I have told you that being born again means to be quickened by the Holy Spirit...(the dead made alive, spirital death needs to be quickened or regenerated {same thing] to spiritual life.

You have the cart before the horse.....having spiritual eyes to see before one is born again. Do the dead see? LOL not any I know of.
I think you might have a misunderstanding of just what it means to be spiritually dead.

The parable of the Sower and the Seed is good example.....how the seed falls on unprepared soil* or falls on the prepared soil.
It is being born again to a spirital life that is the preparation for the seed.
****the seed it sown to the unprepared and it is blown away, grows no root, snatched away by temptation, or cares more for worldly things.........but the seed sown on the good soil (quickened) understands it

 

[throughfaith]

SALVATION is not rescuing the perishing but the raising the dead
This is the spiritual death that all men inherited from Adam.

*Being born again is the first step in salvation.
*Unless one is born again they do not have the Holy Spirit and without the Spirit a person cannot rightly discern the scriptures; they are spiritually apprised. 1 Cor 2:14
*it is God who has CAUSED you to BE born again 1 Peter 1:3

REGENERATION
Deut. 30:6 the Lord will circumcise your heart that you may live (Rom 2:29 the Holy Spirit circumcises the heart)
1 John 5 born of God, born of the Spirit, begotton of God
Ez 11:19 God takes stone heart and give a heart of flesh
Titus 3:5 Saved by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Spirit

Regeneration and quickening mean the same thing in that what was dead is made alive
The word DEAD literally means a CORPSE......and that is very dead! Check your Strong's
Whatever magical powers you give that old corpse, it will never rise on its own.....it will just stink.
Quicken
KJV Ephesians 2:1-5
1. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2. Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3. Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast” (Ephesians 2:8) The GRACE part is the unmerited favor (grace) that God causes you to be born again, so that whatever faith is given to you, you will believe the scriptures. (faith and belief are from the same root word in the Greek with same meaning)

Salvation, faith and every gift you have is from the Lord. Created with a purpose for God's good pleasure.

Jesus refers to the sick needing a physician . If we were literally like a corpse then we would see evangelists at the cemetery. Naaman is a better example . God saved him after he washed himself in the Jordan . He doesn't save himself . Neither do we . But just like Naaman we have to appropriate salvation through faith . His act was to go wash in the river . Ours is to believe on Jesus . God is pleased to save those that believe . 1cor 1.21 . Not cause belief in those he saves .

 

[OIC1965]

1 John 3:0 notice that it says BORN of God before it mentions the seed (scripture) abiding in him
1 Peter 1:23 been BORNagain, (you cannot ignore v3 and just move on to one that suits your belief.)

I have told you that being born again means to be quickened by the Holy Spirit...(the dead made alive, spirital death needs to be quickened or regenerated {same thing] to spiritual life.

You have the cart before the horse.....having spiritual eyes to see before one is born again. Do the dead see? LOL not any I know of.
I think you might have a misunderstanding of just what it means to be spiritually dead.

The parable of the Sower and the Seed is good example.....how the seed falls on unprepared soil* or falls on the prepared soil.
It is being born again to a spirital life that is the preparation for the seed.
****the seed it sown to the unprepared and it is blown away, grows no root, snatched away by temptation, or cares more for worldly things.........but the seed sown on the good soil (quickened) understands it

James 1:18.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You changed the entire meaning of the phrase by adding the words “TO BE”. No one stated Ephesians 1:4 this way.

Also, the use of the words “select people” is misleading. The correct words are He chose us, not we are select people.

That’s where the confusion is coming from. You are adding words to what is said.

It’s funny, As you were the one who accused you of adding the words “To be”

 

[John146]

You changed the entire meaning of the phrase by adding the words “TO BE”. No one stated Ephesians 1:4 this way.

Also, the use of the words “select people” is misleading. The correct words are He chose us, not we are select people.

That’s where the confusion is coming from. You are adding words to what is said.

So, did God choose people before the foundation of the world to be in Christ? Yes or no.

What did God choose before the foundation of the world?

 

[OIC1965]

So, did God choose people before the foundation of the world to be in Christ? Yes or no.

What did God choose before the foundation of the world?

The phrase says God chose us in Christ before the foundation, not chose us to be in Christ

See how little words change the meaning of a sentence?

 

[John146]

The phrase says God chose us in Christ before the foundation, not chose us to be in Christ

See how little words change the meaning of a sentence?

Did God choose certain people for salvation before the foundation of the world? If so, that’s Calvinism 101.

 

[OIC1965]

Did God choose certain people for salvation before the foundation of the world? If so, that’s Calvinism 101.

God chose people before the foundation so that they should be holy and blameless before Him in love. That’s what the scripture says.

 

[OIC1965]

Ok, allow me to exit the discussion. Stay in the Word and conform your beliefs to it. God bless