Did the apostles teach baptism?

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soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,369
113
#61
Hello Mark1616, where does the Bible tell us that baptism removes the stain of original sin :unsure:

Further, if it's true (that the effects of our first parents' sin is removed in the waters of baptism) why does EVERYONE continue to sin after they are baptized :unsure: (perhaps I should have asked you what you mean, specifically, by "losing original sin")

Thanks!

~Deut
p.s. - if our old (sin) nature is gone, why are we commanded to continually lay it aside :unsure:


Ephesians 4
22 In reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
You mean after someone is saved, why do they continue to sin?
They don't.
Romans 6:23 For the payoff[w] of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 3:
Children of God
8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
3,194
3,511
113
67
#62
Hello sister (@soggykitten), do you believe that we truly become sinless once we become Christians (by which I mean that we no longer commit even the most trivial of peccadilloes or foibles on this side of the grave) :unsure:

If so, what need have we any longer for God's forgiveness, cleansing and restoration as Christians, or for the Lord Jesus to be our Advocate before His Father in Heaven :unsure:

I believe that the Bible tells us something else, so (for instance) please take note of what the Apostle John has to say in the passage below ... and to whom he is saying it (and please take special note of the fact that, along with addressing Christians of every level of maturity in the faith, the Apostle includes himself as well, by the use of various pronouns such as "we", "us", "our", etc., as someone who may still sin & therefore, may still need to seek the Lord's forgiveness whenever he does).

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
1 John 2
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

Thanks :)

~Deut
p.s. - for clarity's sake, I believe that true Christians can and do sin, but I do not believe that we make a "practice" of doing so (IOW, we do not live in sin/live an unrepentant, sinful lifestyle, like we used to do before we became believers). I also believe that we do NOT lose our salvation when we sin, but our relationship with God certainly suffers until we ask Him to forgive us, and He cleanses us and restores us to full fellowship with Him.


1 John 3
9 No one born of God makes a ~practice~ of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.


 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#63
No it is not. Jeepers. Where do you come up with this nonsense?
this
/T͟His/

1.
used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.
"is this your bag?"
2.
referring to a specific thing or situation just mentioned.
"the company was transformed and Ward had played a vital role in bringing this about"
determiner
1.
used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.
"don't listen to this guy"
2.
referring to a specific thing or situation just mentioned.
"there was a court case resulting from this incident"
adverb
to the degree or extent indicated.
"they can't handle a job this big"

is
/iz/
Filter definitions by topic
See definitions in:
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Motoring
third person singular present of be.

" This " identified a specific thing that Jesus was referring to *is" singular present be

be
/bē/
verb
3rd person present: is
1.
exist.

2.
occur; take place.

stay in the same place or condition.

3.
having the state, quality, identity, nature, role, etc., specified.

4.
INFORMAL
say.
"when I got there, they were like “What are you doing here?”"
verb
3rd person present: is
1.
used with a present participle to form continuous tenses.
"they are coming"
2.
used with a past participle to form the passive mood.
"it was done"
3.
used to indicate something due to happen.
"construction is to begin next summer"
used to express obligation or necessity.
"you are to follow these orders"
used to express possibility.
"these snakes are to be found in North America"
used to hypothesize about something that might happen.
"if I were to lose"
4.
ARCHAIC
used with the past participle of intransitive verbs to form perfect tenses.
"I am returned"

Language is only complicated when we refuse the meanings of words because they don't fit our agenda.

Jesus is not a liar.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,002
13,010
113
58
#64
In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

*Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contract with the water and they all perished.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#65
Romans 6:3

Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Colossians 2:12

having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27

For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:13

Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

1 Peter 3:21

Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

Looks like the Apostles taught baptism.
 

JBTN

Active member
Feb 11, 2020
211
74
28
#66
In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

*Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked in Noah's day came in contract with the water and they all perished.

I agree with the way you view this verse. Just want to call attention to another interesting fact about 1 Peter 3:21.

In Codex Sinaiticus and Papyrus 72 a semicolon appears in the Greek text after saves and before baptism. The semicolon is very prominent in Papyrus 72. If you give weight to this, the verse changes slightly in regard to your explanation, but it completely takes away the ability to say that this verse teaches baptismal regeneration. With the semicolon it would read something like this:

and you now an antitype saves; not the immersion of the flesh
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#67
There was no baptism with fire...the fire in Acts 2 was symbolic of the Holy Spirit so there is no AND: "Holy Spirit and fire"
This particular filling was to empower them to preach the gospel with boldness and in other languages as explained in following verses
The Holy Spirit had previously been given them by Jesus in John 20:22

Baptism is not a cleansing. Jesus did not need cleansing, his baptism was to identify Himself with John's preaching of repenting
(repent - to have a change of mind, sorrow for sin
And it is always by immersion. (baptizo -to be fully immersed) The Jews practiced sprinkling.
Cessationist teaching.
All conjecture.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#68
this
/T͟His/

1.
used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.
"is this your bag?"
2.
referring to a specific thing or situation just mentioned.
"the company was transformed and Ward had played a vital role in bringing this about"
determiner
1.
used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.
"don't listen to this guy"
2.
referring to a specific thing or situation just mentioned.
"there was a court case resulting from this incident"
adverb
to the degree or extent indicated.
"they can't handle a job this big"

is
/iz/
Filter definitions by topic
See definitions in:
All
Religion
Motoring
third person singular present of be.

" This " identified a specific thing that Jesus was referring to *is" singular present be

be
/bē/
verb
3rd person present: is
1.
exist.

2.
occur; take place.

stay in the same place or condition.

3.
having the state, quality, identity, nature, role, etc., specified.

4.
INFORMAL
say.
"when I got there, they were like “What are you doing here?”"
verb
3rd person present: is
1.
used with a present participle to form continuous tenses.
"they are coming"
2.
used with a past participle to form the passive mood.
"it was done"
3.
used to indicate something due to happen.
"construction is to begin next summer"
used to express obligation or necessity.
"you are to follow these orders"
used to express possibility.
"these snakes are to be found in North America"
used to hypothesize about something that might happen.
"if I were to lose"
4.
ARCHAIC
used with the past participle of intransitive verbs to form perfect tenses.
"I am returned"

Language is only complicated when we refuse the meanings of words because they don't fit our agenda.

Jesus is not a liar.
God is Spirit. <- This is true. Where is the physicality in that "this is"???

Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#69
Cessationist teaching.
All conjecture.
If "other languages were the only dimension then no interpreter would be needed.

A Russian believer with the cessationist version of tongues preaching to americans in English supernaturally ....?
Cessationists would say he can not unless there is an interpreter?...... Too funny

Complete false made up conjecture that is so poorly thought out that it's a tragic smear job of Gods word.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#70
God is Spirit. <- This is true. Where is the physicality in that "this is"???

Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.
God is Spirit. <- This is true. Where is the physicality in that "this is"???

Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.
For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
1 Corinthians 11:23‭-‬31 NASB

Read this carefully. Ignore your predisposition, if you can.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#71
For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which He was betrayed took bread; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
1 Corinthians 11:23‭-‬31 NASB

Read this carefully. Ignore your predisposition, if you can.
Do you believe you are literally eating His body when you partake of the Lord's supper, and literally drinking His blood?
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#72
There was no baptism with fire...the fire in Acts 2 was symbolic of the Holy Spirit so there is no AND: "Holy Spirit and fire"
This particular filling was to empower them to preach the gospel with boldness and in other languages as explained in following verses
The Holy Spirit had previously been given them by Jesus in John 20:22

Baptism is not a cleansing. Jesus did not need cleansing, his baptism was to identify Himself with John's preaching of repenting
(repent - to have a change of mind, sorrow for sin
And it is always by immersion. (baptizo -to be fully immersed) The Jews practiced sprinkling.
All thecspostles recieved the baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Paul also through laying on of hands.

I recieved it in 1977.

The fire part is the cleansing part.

He is Holy.
He comes in and burns out impurities.

It happens all the time once you recieve that initial impartation.
You have to want it.
It is seen in Elijah/ Elisha.
Elisha went after it.

Today's cessationist; "nope I don't need that....I got all I will ever want"

...you're missing out. Big time
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#73
God is Spirit. <- This is true. Where is the physicality in that "this is"???

Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.
It's as simple as this. I will not debate this with you.
You can have symbolic baptism that symbolizes something...what ever you like.
I will have baptism that joins me to Christ in his death.

You can have a memorial service for Jesus
I will have a communion with him in his supper.

You can read and hear a book
I will read and hear the words of God, inhabited by his Spirit.

I am not going to impose faith upon you and you will not impose your will on me
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#74
It's as simple as this. I will not debate this with you.
You can have symbolic baptism that symbolizes something...what ever you like.
I will have baptism that joins me to Christ in his death.

You can have a memorial service for Jesus
I will have a communion with him in his supper.

You can read and hear a book
I will read and hear the words of God, inhabited by his Spirit.

I am not going to impose faith upon you and you will not impose your will on me
Nor do you answer simple questions, or ignore your disposition :geek:

But you do compromise Scripture :(

In this thread, I was the first to speak of being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Your pretenses are nonsense also.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,696
113
#75
OK, I'm a bit confused. Gee, that never happens.
You agreed with me in the other post I made wherein I said I was wrong about thinking Baptism wasn't required for Salvation.
Or is it that you don't believe Baptism is a ritual and that's why you agreed with me prior, but reiterate you don't believe any ritual is required for Salvation?
I like you, but I don't understand why we cannot communicate. Lets start again from scratch...

Water baptism is a physical ritual that is not required for becoming born again. It is, like Holy Communion, something we do to remember what He has done for us. It is usually a one time thing, but it happens after Salvation.

Receiving the Holy Spirit is a spiritual event that happens at the same time we are Born Again.
God bless you:).
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#78
Nor do you answer simple questions, or ignore your disposition :geek:

But you do compromise Scripture :(

In this thread, I was the first to speak of being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Your pretenses are nonsense also.
Thank you.

I believe that Jesus inhabits his words,
He inhabits his sacraments.
He inhabits also his saints. (Which is to say those who believe in him)

So there I answered your attempt to patronize. This should satisfy
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,249
25,719
113
#80
Thank you.

I believe that Jesus inhabits his words,
He inhabits his sacraments.
He inhabits also his saints. (Which is to say those who believe in him)

So there I answered your attempt to patronize. This should satisfy
You did not answer my simple, straightforward questions.

Lay down your pretenses if you can...