Did the apostles teach baptism?

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S

soggykitten

Well-known member
#101
Jul 3, 2020
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#101
Nehemiah6 said:
There is nowhere in the writings of Paul where he makes baptism necessary for salvation. That would not only contradict the Gospel, but all the epistles of Paul. There is nothing supernatural about ordinary H2O. The "clean water" which God speaks about is His Word -- the Gospel (1 Peter 1:23-25).

EZEKIEL 36:25-27:
THE SUPERNATURAL NEW BIRTH AFTER THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
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Jesus said the same thing. The scriptures I posted in my research show that Baptism is commensurate with salvation.
Do you find it odd that we believe in Jesus but we don't accept what he said about Baptism?
What is it do you think? People believe Baptism is a work? Or mistakenly think all they need to do is accept Jesus as their savior and that's it?
So much of the Bible and Jesus' teachings dismissed as not really saying what is there to be read. I find that concerning. However, to each their own I guess.
No one here I'm sure has ever had their mind changed as regards what they think they know as pertains to their personal salvation.
However, what is written is God's words to us. Why then are we equivocating about what he actually meant to say?
If Baptism wasn't a part of our Salvation I'm absolutely convinced Jesus wouldn't have taught it is and then died to seal the covenant in which his teaching is contained.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#102
#102
Scribe said:
Why do you think that? I just googled it and there are lots of videos showing baptisms at Lakewood.
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It was a sarcasm, hyperbole, if you will.
I was trying to add humor.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#103
Aug 4, 2016
2,108
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#103
soggykitten said:
Jesus said the same thing. The scriptures I posted in my research show that Baptism is commensurate with salvation.
Do you find it odd that we believe in Jesus but we don't accept what he said about Baptism?
What is it do you think? People believe Baptism is a work? Or mistakenly think all they need to do is accept Jesus as their savior and that's it?
So much of the Bible and Jesus' teachings dismissed as not really saying what is there to be read. I find that concerning. However, to each their own I guess.
No one here I'm sure has ever had their mind changed as regards what they think they know as pertains to their personal salvation.
However, what is written is God's words to us. Why then are we equivocating about what he actually meant to say?
If Baptism wasn't a part of our Salvation I'm absolutely convinced Jesus wouldn't have taught it is and then died to seal the covenant in which his teaching is contained.
Click to expand...
Since you did not address my question I will ask you again. If water Baptism is commensurate with salvation how was the theif on the cross with Jesus pronounced saved when Jesus said to him that today you shall be with Me in Paradise. (Luke 23:43)

My other question has to do with Corneilus at Acts 10:44-48. At verses 45-46 did Cornelius receive the gift of the Holy Spirit before water baptism?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#105
#105
soggykitten said:
Jesus said the same thing. The scriptures I posted in my research show that Baptism is commensurate with salvation.
Do you find it odd that we believe in Jesus but we don't accept what he said about Baptism?
What is it do you think? People believe Baptism is a work? Or mistakenly think all they need to do is accept Jesus as their savior and that's it?
So much of the Bible and Jesus' teachings dismissed as not really saying what is there to be read. I find that concerning. However, to each their own I guess.
No one here I'm sure has ever had their mind changed as regards what they think they know as pertains to their personal salvation.
However, what is written is God's words to us. Why then are we equivocating about what he actually meant to say?
If Baptism wasn't a part of our Salvation I'm absolutely convinced Jesus wouldn't have taught it is and then died to seal the covenant in which his teaching is contained.
Click to expand...
I'm with ya.
Because Jesus said go into all the world make disciples and baptise them, but the Bible left out the part where he said just joking, go see if you can illicit a decision for me and you know make up some repeat after me follow the bouncing ball prayer that will be good enough. I mean I'm going to suffer a horrific tormenting death as will you 12 but let's not take all this stuff too seriously.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#106
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#106
Corban said:
The primitive Church MUST have had Baptism as part of their gospel. In
  1. Acts 2:38 it is a prerequisite for receiving the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
  2. Acts 2:41 the converts were convinced of it
  3. Acts Chapter 8 it was connected to preaching and converting
  4. The Eunuch in Acts 8 asked about it when he saw water. There is no baptism in Isaiah. Philip must have taught it
  5. Acts 9:18 Paul was immediately Baptized "when the scales fell from his eyes"
  6. Acts Chapter 10 Cornelius was Baptized immediately by order of Peter
  7. Acts 16:15 Lydia was immediately Baptized
  8. Acts 18:8 all new converts were Baptized immediately
  9. Acts 19 is proof of Acts 2:38. Baptism is not enough. It must be in Jesus' Name
  10. Acts 22:16 Paul was called into question when he "tarried" before his Baptism
I dare say that Baptism was a major point in the gospel of the primitive Church. Scripture give at least five major reasons why a Christian convert is to be immersed. But above all these, it is a COMMAND. Mark 16:16 is emphatic.
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In Mark 16.16 is it water baptism ? Could it be baptism of the Holy spirit ?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#108
Aug 4, 2020
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#108
Marksixteensixteen said:
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptismal regeneration)
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' regeneration ' the ' washing ' is not water. Its ' regeneration ' .
 
S

soggykitten

Well-known member
#109
Jul 3, 2020
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#109
Blackpowderduelist said:
I'm with ya.
Because Jesus said go into all the world make disciples and baptise them, but the Bible left out the part where he said just joking, go see if you can illicit a decision for me and you know make up some repeat after me follow the bouncing ball prayer that will be good enough. I mean I'm going to suffer a horrific tormenting death as will you 12 but let's not take all this stuff too seriously.
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Well said. Seriously. :)
 
S

soggykitten

Well-known member
#110
Jul 3, 2020
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#110
throughfaith said:
I hope they were not baptised with fire?
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Apostle, extra crispy. :oops::giggle:
In the OT Deuteronomy God is referred to as an all consuming fire. This is commensurate with God's wrath and being a jealous God, as Moses told the Israelite's.
 
S

soggykitten

Well-known member
#111
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
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#111
bluto said:
Since you did not address my question I will ask you again. If water Baptism is commensurate with salvation how was the theif on the cross with Jesus pronounced saved when Jesus said to him that today you shall be with Me in Paradise. (Luke 23:43)

My other question has to do with Corneilus at Acts 10:44-48. At verses 45-46 did Cornelius receive the gift of the Holy Spirit before water baptism?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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I didn't know you were also @Nehemiah6. My remarks that you quoted were addressed to them not someone named Bluto. :unsure:
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#112
Aug 4, 2020
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#112
soggykitten said:
Apostle, extra crispy. :oops::giggle:
In the OT Deuteronomy God is referred to as an all consuming fire. This is commensurate with God's wrath and being a jealous God, as Moses told the Israelite's.
Click to expand...
Yup . The Fire 🔥 was not fire but ' as of fire ' in Acts 2
 
Corban

Corban

Banned
#113
Jun 11, 2020
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#113
throughfaith said:
In Mark 16.16 is it water baptism ? Could it be baptism of the Holy spirit ?
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In light of the actions of converts throughout Acts, I understand it to be WATER IMMERSION. The word "Baptizo" means "to be dunked totally like dyeing a cloth". The scriptures hardly use the phrase "Baptized in the Spirit" because the sense is of RECEIVING the Holy Spirit. The word "filled" in Acts 2:3 means "furnished" like a policeman is "furnished" with a uniform and a pistol "for power" (Act.1:8).
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#114
Aug 4, 2020
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#114
Corban said:
In light of the actions of converts throughout Acts, I understand it to be WATER IMMERSION. The word "Baptizo" means "to be dunked totally like dyeing a cloth". The scriptures hardly use the phrase "Baptized in the Spirit" because the sense is of RECEIVING the Holy Spirit. The word "filled" in Acts 2:3 means "furnished" like a policeman is "furnished" with a uniform and a pistol "for power" (Act.1:8).
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Mark would fully understand being immersed into the body by the Holy Spirit at the time of writing Mark ( his mini summary of Acts in 16 towards the end. ) Thats why the later part of 16.16 - says but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 
Corban

Corban

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#115
Jun 11, 2020
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#115
throughfaith said:
' regeneration ' the ' washing ' is not water. Its ' regeneration ' .
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Correct. The Greek word used here and in Matthew 19:28 appears only twice in scripture. It means that the things sleeping because of winter will sprout forth in new life in spring.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#116
#116
bluto said:
Since you did not address my question I will ask you again. If water Baptism is commensurate with salvation how was the theif on the cross with Jesus pronounced saved when Jesus said to him that today you shall be with Me in Paradise. (Luke 23:43)

My other question has to do with Corneilus at Acts 10:44-48. At verses 45-46 did Cornelius receive the gift of the Holy Spirit before water baptism?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Jesus said so. To him in person. Because Jesus had not yet died nor was he buried or resurrected as that moment in time.
 
S

soggykitten

Well-known member
#117
Jul 3, 2020
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#117
bluto said:
Since you did not address my question I will ask you again. If water Baptism is commensurate with salvation how was the theif on the cross with Jesus pronounced saved when Jesus said to him that today you shall be with Me in Paradise. (Luke 23:43)

My other question has to do with Corneilus at Acts 10:44-48. At verses 45-46 did Cornelius receive the gift of the Holy Spirit before water baptism?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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To answer this direct question by you to me:
He knew of Jesus, remember? How do we know that thief didn't hear Jesus teach? I think he did due to what he said of and to Jesus.
The thief defended Jesus as having no reason to be crucified, unlike himself and his companion thief to the left of Christ and on his own cross. He also admitted he belonged on the cross as a thief and asked Jesus to remember him when he came into his kingdom.
The thief in that moment when Jesus told him today you will be with me in paradise in as much was baptized by the holy spirit. Because Jesus was God and saved him right then and there with those words. Do you imagine Jesus should have paused time, gotten off the cross and taken that thief to the Jordan for baptism? In order to sustain what he taught about being baptised and saved? Are you really going to equivocate to that degree in order to refute what Jesus taught about Baptism and Salvation?

And prior to Jesus drawing his last breath? He forgave everyone there. Which would include the thief that mocked him, for he knew not what he did. And, Judas. Who repented before he hanged himself.

Do you really think Jesus didn't know what he was talking about? In all those verses where he says baptism is commensurate with Salvation? Nor the Apostles whom he taught?

Have you been baptized? If yes, then what's your beef?
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#118
#118
soggykitten said:
To answer this direct question by you to me:
He knew of Jesus, remember? How do we know that thief didn't hear Jesus teach? I think he did due to what he said of and to Jesus.
The thief defended Jesus as having no reason to be crucified, unlike himself and his companion thief to the left of Christ and on his own cross. He also admitted he belonged on the cross as a thief and asked Jesus to remember him when he came into his kingdom.
The thief in that moment when Jesus told him today you will be with me in paradise in as much was baptized by the holy spirit. Because Jesus was God and saved him right then and there with those words. Do you imagine Jesus should have paused time, gotten off the cross and taken that thief to the Jordan for baptism? In order to sustain what he taught about being baptised and saved? Are you really going to equivocate to that degree in order to refute what Jesus taught about Baptism and Salvation?

And prior to Jesus drawing his last breath? He forgave everyone there. Which would include the thief that mocked him, for he knew not what he did. And, Judas. Who repented before he hanged himself.

Do you really think Jesus didn't know what he was talking about? In all those verses where he says baptism is commensurate with Salvation? Nor the Apostles whom he taught?

Have you been baptized? If yes, then what's your beef?
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I don't know why anyone would want a Christless baptism
 
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