Can someone lose their salvation?

[eternally-gratefull]

How is it that when these discussions come up, everyone seems to forget about the book of James?

What about the book of James? You mean where he claims that one who claims to be saved and has no works has a dead faith.

can a dead faith save anyone?

the problem is people use james to defend that one can lose salvation when James never said anything of the sort.

 

[zone]

I just try to stick with facts as I see them, or at least scripture.

As for your comment about red. Yes I know LBG does not believe Jesus is God, We disagree on this issue. Like you and I disagree dan 9 has been completely fulfilled. It does not mean we can't agree on other things. Like we have shown to do.

I don't call what LBG said to red a strawman because it is a perfectly legitament question. It is an example of a licentious person who claimed to have faith. This is not like David. David loved God. did many things for him, SHowed he was a son. Then commited those sins. The person in LBG's example never showed any love for God, or did what he wanted. See the difference??

what???

SIN IS SIN....isn't it?

the Stawman got drunk and beat his wife....but apparently God will not draw that strawman into repentence.

however, since David LOVED GOD and did many things for Him, do you suppose that meant David thought he could get away with his sin? because God loved him and vice versa?

was God less offended by murder committed by a king than drunkeness committed by a scarecrow?

SIN IS SIN.

David murdered Uriah. he lusted after his wife, fornicated with her, got her pregnant and had Uriah killed. He lied about, tried to cover it up, etc.

if LBG can find a post where he told us the Strawman never had any love for God, let's see it. and wouldn't the offense against God be greater committed by one who PROFESSED to love Him yet did those things?

are you suggesting, i don't think you are, since you are vehemently opposed to salvation by works: that David's sin was less offensive to God because David did things for God?

was David's sin transgression of The Law or not? did God make an exception for David?
i thought God couldn't be bribed nor was an respector of persons.

?? you, too make excuses for david's sin and judge the strawman?

 

[tapuout101]

I we could lose our salvation we would all be hurting. Although we are saved we are in fact sinners. We are in a time of grace and not by works. Sin is actually a tool that brings us closer to GOD.For example the thief on the cross was saved. I know the rapture isn't listed in the bible, but many of us hope and believe in it. At that time GOD won't pour out his wrath on the godly until the godly is called up.Thanks for grace

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what???

SIN IS SIN....isn't it?

the Stawman got drunk and beat his wife....but apparently God will not draw that strawman into repentence.

however, since David LOVED GOD and did many things for Him, do you suppose that meant David thought he could get away with his sin? because God loved him and vice versa?

was God less offended by murder committed by a king than drunkeness committed by a scarecrow?

SIN IS SIN.

David murdered Uriah. he lusted after his wife, fornicated with her, got her pregnant and had Uriah killed. He lied about, tried to cover it up, etc.

if LBG can find a post where he told us the Strawman never had any love for God, let's see it. and wouldn't the offense against God be greater committed by one who PROFESSED to love Him yet did those things?

are you suggesting, i don't think you are, since you are vehemently opposed to salvation by works: that David's sin was less offensive to God because David did things for God?

was David's sin transgression of The Law or not? did God make an exception for David?
i thought God couldn't be bribed nor was an respector of persons.

?? you, too make excuses for david's sin and judge the strawman?

Your not seeing the point. Did the guy repent is the question.

I have no doubt God can call the man and bring him to repentnace. but that is not the question.

David is not a valid response. Because david lived a life that was pleasing to God. He made mistakes.

The man in question never lived a life free of sin.

David would be a great response to a person who was in the church. did many things, showed a massively changed life. Then one day fell apart. Commited sexual sin, started drinking for awhile. So the question is, did this man lose his salvation when he did this. The answer would be no. And david is the example.

Try to see the differences between the two.

 

[zone]

Yep

LBG believes the Father existed before all including the son, but the son has existed before time as we know it began

Its nice to see Christians who believe they are suuch an authority concerning time before we know it began feel they have the spiritual authority to therefore condemn others based on an issue dependant on such time

Of couurse if a person claims a salvation experiance and shows no change in there life for years afterwards, no problem, that is different of course

And of course if a person will not accept the plain and continuous words of Christ as to the required belief in him to have eternal life, that is no problem either, these things are acceptable, but believing the Father the one true God existed before all including his son is definately a no no

Oh the pride and arrogance of man AND WOMAN

nice to see we have christians who are such an authority on the Grace of God, they are certain and want so badly to condemn that strawman...they are an authority on the personal relationship/sufferings under God's corrective hand (like David), which apparently the strawman never gets.

oh the double-standards. and double-speak.

and this really is all because Red likes doctrine (head knowledge), loves church, and relies on scripture (the bible isn't really that important) in his relationship with The Lord, while you don't like church, prefer flashy experiential religion (Khluman is a perfect example). i never see you post any scriptures except the ones that continue the argument that Jesus is not God, or that the strawman can't be saved.

but you're very polite about itthat's good.

 

[zone]

Your not seeing the point. Did the guy repent is the question.

I have no doubt God can call the man and bring him to repentnace. but that is not the question.

David is not a valid response. Because david lived a life that was pleasing to God. He made mistakes.

The man in question never lived a life free of sin.

David would be a great response to a person who was in the church. did many things, showed a massively changed life. Then one day fell apart. Commited sexual sin, started drinking for awhile. So the question is, did this man lose his salvation when he did this. The answer would be no. And david is the example.

Try to see the differences between the two.

we don't get to speculate on THE STRAWMAN.
its not about the STRAWMAN.

its about RED.


"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God…

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'



MISTAKES?

how come the strawman can't be let off as having made MISTAKES?

maybe i can go to the bar with my old friends tonight after all....i love God. i DO THINGS for Him.
hmmm...if i get loaded i can just say it was a mistake.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

As for your comment about red. Yes I know LBG does not believe Jesus is God, We disagree on this issue. Like you and I disagree dan 9 has been completely fulfilled. It does not mean we can't agree on other things. Like we have shown to do.

I've read LBG's posts. He believes that Christ did come from God before coming to earth, the Living Word made flesh. The He humbled himsel and in all ways became a man, no different from you or I with one exception, He was void of Adam's corrupt seed. Because of this He could communicate with the Father without sin and the world clouding his vision, who in turn communicated all things back to Him through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who also bestowed upon Him the ability to perform miraclkes. It's a basic Trinititarian position.

As for those who believe that Jesus was some sort of superman, set high upon some sort of unobtainable pedistal, I have two quesyions. (1) If God did not want us to be Christ-like, Why did God choose to take the form of a man in the first place? and, (2) Why would God give the same Spirit to us that dwelled in Christ who's purpose is to conform us into the image of Christ?

Personally I take no issue whether one believes Christ to be God or that He came from God however, scripture indicates that He in all ways humbled Himself and became a man, a servant to all men. Although, when He returns He is coming to rule and reign and shall share his throne with those who overcome in this life.

But this is a topic for another thread.

 

[livingbygrace]

nice to see we have christians who are such an authority on the Grace of God, they are certain and want so badly to condemn that strawman...they are an authority on the personal relationship/sufferings under God's corrective hand (like David), which apparently the strawman never gets.

oh the double-standards. and double-speak.

and this really is all because Red likes doctrine (head knowledge), loves church, and relies on scripture (the bible isn't really that important) in his relationship with The Lord, while you don't like church, prefer flashy experiential religion (Khluman is a perfect example). i never see you post any scriptures except the ones that continue the argument that Jesus is not God, or that the strawman can't be saved.

but you're very polite about itthat's good.

The difference is, my beliefs are Biblical, yours are not. IE you will not accept the plain and continuous words of Christ as to how a person must see him to have everlasting life

And of course I have never told anyone they are condemned, a heretic, possessed by the spirit of antichrist etc, I leave that to others who believe they have the spiritual authority to do so

And you say I condemn others? Oh well. Wisdom is always justified by its inconsistencies

As for likening the strawman to David, if you cannot see the difference between the two I doubt that says much for your biblical knowledge. EG ;plainly sees thec difference as would anyonme not blinded by................... well you know

As for you and Red supposedly loving scripture and church

Why do you not accept the plain and continuous words of Christ as to the belief in him required to have eternal life?
From where do you get your spiritual authiority to demand more than did Christ for the belief neccessary in him to have eternal life?

The Bible?
The church?

Or the ego

hymmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we don't get to speculate on THE STRAWMAN.
its not about the STRAWMAN.

its about RED.

From what I see it is about LBG. I have asked red the same questions. having nothing to do with LBG and he did the same thing to me.

And you don't have to speculate. Do we speculate on who Jude condemned as licentious? There is no difference. Red can not even answer me if he believes a licentious gospel will save anyone. I have asked him this how many times now?? What is wrong with just answering?

"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God…

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'



MISTAKES?

how come the strawman can't be let off as having made MISTAKES?

Well I never called them a mistake. Nor have I seen LBG call them mistakes.. so I do not understand your question

By the way. I am not sticking up for LBG. I am trying to see what Red believes. Does a licentious gospel save anyone or does it not. WHy won't he answer?

maybe i can go to the bar with my old friends tonight after all....i love God. i DO THINGS for Him.
hmmm...if i get loaded i can just say it was a mistake.

hmm.. Well if ya did that. I would hope you admited it was wrong. And you followed your flesh instead of the spirit. But again, I do not see the point of this reasoning. has nothing to do with a licentious gospel.

 

[livingbygrace]

how come the strawman can't be let off as having made MISTAKES?

.

Just so everyone new to this understands the strawman question

A person claims a salvation experiance. Straight after this and for the next ten years they constantly, ceaselessly, beat their wife, get drunk, have multiple affairs and never read a Bible.
Are they in a saved state

If Red is honest he believes they are

And you liken that example to King David?

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

I've read LBG's posts. He believes that Christ did come from God before coming to earth, the Living Word made flesh. The He humbled himsel and in all ways became a man, no different from you or I with one exception, He was void of Adam's corrupt seed. Because of this He could communicate with the Father without sin and the world clouding his vision, who in turn communicated all things back to Him through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who also bestowed upon Him the ability to perform miraclkes. It's a basic Trinititarian position.

As for those who believe that Jesus was some sort of superman, set high upon some sort of unobtainable pedistal, I have two quesyions. (1) If God did not want us to be Christ-like, Why did God choose to take the form of a man in the first place? and, (2) Why would God give the same Spirit to us that dwelled in Christ who's purpose is to conform us into the image of Christ?

Personally I take no issue whether one believes Christ to be God or that He came from God however, scripture indicates that He in all ways humbled Himself and became a man, a servant to all men. Although, when He returns He is coming to rule and reign and shall share his throne with those who overcome in this life.

But this is a topic for another thread.

When I asked my question at the end, I forgot to include an important point, that no man born of Adam's seed could ever accomplish what Christ ddid on the cross. That God gave his Son to teach the rest of us how to be sons.

 

[livingbygrace]

When I asked my question at the end, I forgot to include an important point, that no man born of Adam's seed could ever accomplish what Christ ddid on the cross. That God gave his Son to teach the rest of us how to be sons.

I believe Christ is the son of God, the only begotten son of God and anyone who repents of their sin and asks him into their life as Lord and saviour is saved

But it seems that according to the Gospel of Zone and Red that is not enough of a belief to have eternal life

The fact that was what Christ continually comanded a person to believe to inherit eternal life is immeterial to some, they know better

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

I believe Christ is the son of God, the only begotten son of God and anyone who repents of their sin and asks him into their life as Lord and saviour is saved

But it seems that according to the Gospel of Zone and Red that is not enough of a belief to have eternal life

The fact that was what Christ continually comanded a person to believe to inherit eternal life is immeterial to some, they know better

I don't see a problem with this view.

 

[Red33]

Your not seeing the point. Did the guy repent is the question.

I have no doubt God can call the man and bring him to repentnace. but that is not the question.

David is not a valid response. Because david lived a life that was pleasing to God. He made mistakes.

The man in question never lived a life free of sin.

David would be a great response to a person who was in the church. did many things, showed a massively changed life. Then one day fell apart. Commited sexual sin, started drinking for awhile. So the question is, did this man lose his salvation when he did this. The answer would be no. And david is the example.

Try to see the differences between the two.

God has never required that we change anything about our life without having faith that comes from the word of His grace to be able to do it. We make no provision for the flesh by faith in the grace of God. When we are asked to put off the old man and put the new man which is created in Christ, we are able to do that by faith in the new birth through regeneration. When we are to put off the things of the flesh we are able to do that by faith because Christ has crucified through death the affections and lusts of the flesh. We can do all things through Christ which strengthens us through grace. God has only desired that we be transformed by the renewing of our mind and that takes time through a constant investment of grace and truth.

This investment has to be tried and tested through the plan of God so that the imaginations and thoughts of our heart can be transformed and Christ can be formed in us little by little. This process is different for each believer because of the dynamics and makeup of the soul that each believe has been subject to through the many different kinds of stimuli and experiences in life. There will be setbacks and times of being in the wilderness but God will perform it and bring it to pass because he is faithful who has promised. None of this does away with our salvation nor can we just walk away from what God has purposed in Himself to do for those who have been redeemed and purchased by His blood.

 

[unclefester]

]I've read LBG's posts. He believes that Christ did come from God before coming to earth, the Living Word made flesh.

I'm pretty certain LBG doesn't believe the green highlighted part.
[/font]John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The He humbled himsel and in all ways became a man, no different from you or I with one exception, He was void of Adam's corrupt seed.

Awww....just that "one little exception" of Jesus being without sin. The perfect, spotless and blameless sacrifice for our sins. Other than that, we're pretty much the same as Him, huh ?

Because of this He could communicate with the Father without sin and the world clouding his vision, who in turn communicated all things back to Him through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who also bestowed upon Him the ability to perform miraclkes.

We've got people here that claim to communicate directly to God/Christ Himself as well. Go figure.


"As for those who believe that Jesus was some sort of superman", set high upon some sort of unobtainable pedistal.

That'd be me.......and Zone and Red amongst some others here. By "superman", I'll assume that you mean God in the flesh. And by "some sort of unobtainable pedestal", I'll assume that you mean seated at the right-hand of the Father.....where He and the Father together with the Holy Spirit are One....and always have been.


I have two quesyions. (1) If God did not want us to be Christ-like, Why did God choose to take the form of a man in the first place?

"In the first place" ........ It was to die in our place for our sins. Amazing grace, isn't it ?


and, (2) Why would God give the same Spirit to us that dwelled in Christ who's purpose is to conform us into the image of Christ? Personally I take no issue whether one believes Christ to be God or that He came from God .


The answer is.....to be Christ-like is to be God-like. It's as simple (and complicated for some) as that.

 

[Red33]

I believe Christ is the son of God, the only begotten son of God and anyone who repents of their sin and asks him into their life as Lord and saviour is saved

But it seems that according to the Gospel of Zone and Red that is not enough of a belief to have eternal life

The fact that was what Christ continually comanded a person to believe to inherit eternal life is immeterial to some, they know better

This is what you have been waiting for so I will make sure it's a good one. Repentance from sin is not a requirement for God's salvation, for forgiveness of sins or to be cleansed from sin. Believing upon Christ who shed His blood and was judged for our sins through His death, burial and resurrection is all that is required for sinful man to be fully justified and put in right standing with God. Repentance of sin has NOTHING to do with it. The repentance that takes place is granted to us and we turn from self as we have been led astray and turn to Christ and receive by grace and through faith God's great salvation.

At that point of salvation we are forgiven and cleansed from all sin, we are given a gift of perfect righteousness and eternal life, we receive the promise of the Holy Spirit to indwell us and another 60+ things happen to the believer at that moment. These are all imputed to the believer making him a son of God through adoption (Gal 4:5, Eph 1:5). None of this can be taken from the believer nor can the believer forfeit what God has imputed without works.

These divine imputations are sealed in the believer and the believer is sealed and placed in Christ (Eph 1:13, 4:30). Christ is the only one that God has predestinated. When we are placed in Him at salvation this is when we are predestinated and receive our calling and are justified with the expectation of glorification through the redemption of our bodies (Eph 1:5, Rom 8:28-30). We do not have individual predestination, it is only through Christ that we are predestinated being hid with Christ in the hand of God (Col 3:3, Jn 10:28,29).

 

[livingbygrace]

This is what you have been waiting for so I will make sure it's a good one. Repentance from sin is not a requirement for God's salvation, for forgiveness of sins or to be cleansed from sin. Believing upon Christ who shed His blood and was judged for our sins through His death, burial and resurrection is all that is required for sinful man to be fully justified and put in right standing with God. Repentance of sin has NOTHING to do with it. The repentance that takes place is granted to us and we turn from self as we have been led astray and turn to Christ and receive by grace and through faith God's great salvation.

At that point of salvation we are forgiven and cleansed from all sin, we are given a gift of perfect righteousness and eternal life, we receive the promise of the Holy Spirit to indwell us and another 60+ things happen to the believer at that moment. These are all imputed to the believer making him a son of God through adoption (Gal 4:5, Eph 1:5). None of this can be taken from the believer nor can the believer forfeit what God has imputed without works.

These divine imputations are sealed in the believer and the believer is sealed and placed in Christ (Eph 1:13, 4:30). Christ is the only one that God has predestinated. When we are placed in Him at salvation this is when we are predestinated and receive our calling and are justified with the expectation of glorification through the redemption of our bodies (Eph 1:5, Rom 8:28-30). We do not have individual predestination, it is only through Christ that we are predestinated being hid with Christ in the hand of God (Col 3:3, Jn 10:28,29).

When they heard this they had no further objections and praised God saying. 'So then, God has granted evn the Gentiles repentance unto life
Acts 11:18

Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation

2 Cor 7:10

Repent then and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out
Acts 3:19

But unless you repent you too will all perish
Luke 13:3

Repent for the kingdom of Heaven is near
Matt 3:2

But among you there must not be a hint of sexual immorality or any kind of impiurity or of greed, because those are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscernity, foolish talk or coarse joking which are out of place but rather thanksgiving
For of this you can be sure, no immoral, impure or gredy person-such a man is an idolator has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God
LET NO-ONE DECEIVE YOU WITH EMPTY WORDS, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobediant

Eph 5:3-6

In that list is says there must be no himt of sexual immorality. In the passage I have often quoted from 1 Cor ch 6 it lists drunkards as one of the types of people who will not inherit eternal life
And yet when I ask you if a person who constantly, ceaselessly for ten years after a claimed conversion gets drunk and has constant affairs is in a saved state, you mostly refuse to answer, when you do you suggest they in all probability are

You have a Christianity that is not based on the plain truth of scripture. This is becasue of vanity and pride. You ream off your scriptures, sometimes with oratory skill, but it means nothing for it comes from a heart full of pride and one that just wants to be esteemed as a teacher, preacher of God's word.

You should in your heart seek the glory for God but you do not I am afraid. And you teach/preach an unbiblical message that will appeal to some

And please do not complain at my words. I have never said you are condemned, possessed by the spirit of antichrist or a heretic
But I do weep for those taken in by your smooth words and false humility

 

[unclefester]

"But among you there must not be a hint of sexual immorality or any kind of impiurity or of greed, because those are improper for God's holy people. Nor should there be obscernity, foolish talk or coarse joking which are out of place but rather thanksgiving
For of this you can be sure, no immoral, impure or gredy person-such a man is an idolator has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God
LET NO-ONE DECEIVE YOU WITH EMPTY WORDS, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobediant

Eph 5:3-6

In that list is says there must be no himt of sexual immorality. In the passage I have often quoted from 1 Cor ch 6 it lists drunkards as one of the types of people who will not inherit eternal life
And yet when I ask you if a person who constantly, ceaselessly for ten years after a claimed conversion gets drunk and has constant affairs is in a saved state, you mostly refuse to answer, when you do you suggest they in all probability are"

Let's ask this same question to a lesser extreme ? Is somebody that struggles with any sin after ten years in a saved state ? How about five years ? Is somebody that struggles with envy or lust after five years in a saved state ? Let's use two years. Is somebody that struggles with anger after two years in a saved state ? Is anybody that struggles with any of the "minor sins" after one year in a saved state ? Are any of us that "still sin" in any manner in a saved state ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God has never required that we change anything about our life without having faith that comes from the word of His grace to be able to do it. We make no provision for the flesh by faith in the grace of God. When we are asked to put off the old man and put the new man which is created in Christ, we are able to do that by faith in the new birth through regeneration. When we are to put off the things of the flesh we are able to do that by faith because Christ has crucified through death the affections and lusts of the flesh. We can do all things through Christ which strengthens us through grace. God has only desired that we be transformed by the renewing of our mind and that takes time through a constant investment of grace and truth.

This investment has to be tried and tested through the plan of God so that the imaginations and thoughts of our heart can be transformed and Christ can be formed in us little by little. This process is different for each believer because of the dynamics and makeup of the soul that each believe has been subject to through the many different kinds of stimuli and experiences in life. There will be setbacks and times of being in the wilderness but God will perform it and bring it to pass because he is faithful who has promised. None of this does away with our salvation nor can we just walk away from what God has purposed in Himself to do for those who have been redeemed and purchased by His blood.

So your saying repentance is not required? Well I guess I know where your licentious belief comes from. How can one have faith without repenting?

1. Scripture says we were Gods enemy. How can we go from being an enemy of God to trusting him without repenting (Changing our minds)
2. Scripture says nothing good comes from us. Our thoughts are totally evil. How can we come to trust God that this is true unless we repent?
3. Human wisdom and understanding is at enmity with God, we do not believe him, (when he says we are sinners) and we do not trust him (we should be able to save ourselves) so how can we come to him without repenting?

Scriptural support:

John the Baptist told the jews that had to repent to recieve their messiah. He refused to baptise anyone who did nt show fruits of repentance.

Jesus said he came to call sinners to repentance.

Many times in the NT remission of sin is aligned with repentance. Thus one can not happen without the other.

Jesus is luke 13 said it plainly "unless you repent you will likewise parish"

Peter says in in acts 2 we must repent if we want to have remission of sin.

Acts 3 says repent and be converted that your sin may be blotted out

Acts 21 says repentance towards god and faith are together/.

Paul tells us Godly sorrow leads to repentance. which in turn leads to salvation.

Peter tells us God is willing that nopne should parish, but all should come to repentance.

If one does not repent thay can't have faith. That is why the licentious gospel is so evil and wrong. One who does not repent will not show a changed life because they are still livin gin their old way and old live/. They are still at enmity with God. They still believe they have done no wrong, which is why they still sin and live as they did before. All they did was give lip service. And James and Jude make it clear. They turn the GRACE of God to licentiousness. Who's condemnation was long before assured.

No wonder you won't answer the question about the man who claimed salvation but lived a licentious lifestyle. He did not have to repent to be saved. So he could go on living like he did, and God will still save him. This is a lie from hell.

 

[livingbygrace]

If one does not repent thay can't have faith. That is why the licentious gospel is so evil and wrong. One who does not repent will not show a changed life because they are still livin gin their old way and old live/. They are still at enmity with God. They still believe they have done no wrong, which is why they still sin and live as they did before. All they did was give lip service. And James and Jude make it clear. They turn the GRACE of God to licentiousness. Who's condemnation was long before assured.

No wonder you won't answer the question about the man who claimed salvation but lived a licentious lifestyle. He did not have to repent to be saved. So he could go on living like he did, and God will still save him. This is a lie from hell.

Amen and Amen