How many here have honestly walked away from God at some point?

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#21
OP you just carry on in your walk and not worry what everyone else is doing. revelation says let those who are holy be holy still and let the unrighteous be unrighteous. It does rain on the holy and unrighteous alike.

YOU know inside you have His spirit in you that cant be taken away, and they that are ignorant will STILL be ignorant, even if they claim to be christians. Ive seen terrible behaviour by those who claim to be for Christ but is it my job to condemn them? No. God can deal with them. Does it affect me? well God has taught me to walk away from them and given me MY walk to focus on.

I was reading this memoir of an author who came to Christ in his youth and got married to another believer, but his wife was unfaithful and left him for another man. He then lost his faith in God. It made me wonder what kind of faith did he have to begin with or was it only a faith so he could marry someone?
I know betrayal is hard to handle yet so many on here have been betrayed and gone through divorce but still keep their faith. They are even able to see their ex years later and not feel like they want their ex to die.
so you need to examine your faith.

and lets not forget Jesus was betrayed by Judas who gave all appearnace of godliness...except that Jesus really knew what was in Judas heart and wasnt really fooled though it hurt him that Judas did that. Did that then stop all the other disciples from believing? Jesus was able to forgive Peter who denied him even.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
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#22
Similar to how the saints whose blood was under the altar crying out. But after a lifetime of waiting it gets old. It seems like there is a war on for truth and those who try to be honest and truthful are ridiculed and even called crazy. It's too long to describe here but I've seen some slick liars get away with their lies for many many years and those who speak the truth were vilified. I've just seen very little of God's intervention.
When I look back on my years, I can distinctly see the Lord's intervention in many cases in my life. But in the grand scale of the world I also see evil prospering. And when it gets close to home, or right in my life, I gnash my teeth. When I hear of an outright criminal going free on a technicality I feel murderous myself. And although I am a sinner myself, I long for justice. But it will be still some time outstanding. Israel had the Law, and this should have brought equity to its subjects (for it was a Kingdom), but I think that towards the end, besides idol worship, the accusation most often leveled by Jehovah at them was biased judgments and oppression of the weak, widows and the fatherless.

But our grand example is the Master Himself - Jesus. As He was buffeted and beaten, and lied about, the King Who had the Father's ear could have asked for 12 legions of angels for Himself alone. Let's do the maths. Rome, at its peak, had 37 legions of MEN. But we read that man is made lower than the angels, and we read of one angel killing 185,000 men in one night in 2nd Kings 19. What then will stand against 12 legions of angels who have the go-ahead from their Master, Jehovah? Yet, for His Father's sake, and for our sakes, and for the sake of every Christian who will ever call upon the name of the Lord, Jesus kept silent. And now, He sits on the right hand IN the throne of Majesty "above the highest heaven", DOING SEEMINGLY NOTHING as His name is a profanity, an curse and an object of hate. For 1950 years He has been maligned and evil spoken of. And yet He waits. And His request to us is, "Patience please".

The martyrs under the altar are a wonderful example. Why? They have sensed the change of the age. In Luke 9, James and John would call fire down - as Elijah did, but are sharply rebuked. It was not the time for retribution. But our Lord does not rebuke the martyrs of Revelation 6. He asks a for little more patience. And patience for what? MORE EVIL! Some more dear Christians will be slain and slaughtered and join those praying. But in this lies the TRUTH that RETRIBUTION IS COMING! And when it comes the earth and its inhabitants buckle. Men want to die - but are not permitted by God. They must face the torment that has been building up for them since Cain.

There are some on this Forum who think that the Lake of Fire for EVER is unreasonable. But I tell you that it is an everlasting Monument to a God Who does not forget evil. It is an everlasting Monument to righteousness. Every blow struck against a man, woman, child and fetus, is a blow struck against God. And every blow struck against a Christian will be met by DOUBLE pain, but IN HIS TIME (Rev.18:6). John, about 95 when he wrote Revelation, writes that he is in the TRIBULATION and Kingdom and PATIENCE of the Lord. And it is to a Church with PATIENCE that Christ's ONLY COMMENDATION is sent in Revelation 3:10;

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

It is my ambition, though I am weak, to hear those words ring in my ear. Call me mercenary if you will. Maybe my motive should be love of my Savior, but I intend to run the full course for the REWARD. I know I can't do it by myself. My resource is Christ. And that Christ is my FORERUNNER. He has been though it all, and worse. He looks at your and my trials and sheds a tear for us, because He knew, and knows the feelings we have. We just have to give him a little more time to do His marvelous work - and then we can watch, with mounting awe, just what He does with evildoers.
 

Z10N

New member
Oct 28, 2019
3
3
3
#23
I've been a believer for 40 years and am weary of dealing with sinful people - God allowing evil to go unpunished. Nothing makes sense. I just wonder how many here are honest enough to admit when God just didn't make any sense? I had a very judgmental "Christian" friend who was just like Job's friends; I don't wish things on anyone but wonder just how many judgmental "Christians" can stand up under the fire if it was THEY who were the one tested like Job. I've come to see that a number of people I had thought were true Christians really weren't. I came to learn about the 501c churches and how many pastors sell their soul for money. Some of the worst people I've known were other 'Christians.'

Even the apostle Paul said that they had despaired of life. Is anyone honest enough to admit that they reached that point? I've really come to see how many dishonest 'Christians' there are.

A Christian lawyer I know was big in his church and his son was a drug dealer in town. That lawyer sent OTHERS kids to jail yet his son got off - daddy was a lawyer and uncle a judge - very well-connected people. He made a killing representing all the teens who got into trouble from drugs - that his son sold them and while his son made money selling them. They're both well-off now. The son is now a lawyer after wrecking lives. I had their firm do something corrupt and when I reported it no one from the prosecutors office would hold the corrupt lawyer and corrupt probate lawyer accountable. I prayed - a lot but God didn't show me that they paid for their crimes. I just can't understand God. All the people with criminal records does NOT TELL THE TRUTH BECAUSE THE WORST CRIMES ARE COMMITTED BY LAWYERS, JUDGES, POLICE, AND THOSE IN GOVERNMENT. Not all - there are some good people but I just see how everything is a big fat lie.

I was reading an organizations page last night and their bylaws are that no one with a criminal record can join. I don't have a criminal record but know a lot of teens in town who do who are much better people than the liars who used their connections to walk free. I just saw how a big fat lie it all is. So that organization will accept someone as long as they don't have a record - but they could be morally the worst out of anyone. Just because they look good on paper.

Unless no one follows alternative news they don't know the truth. At least once a week a cop is caught sexually molesting young kids and they usually walk away with a slap on the wrist. I knew about a young girl who was brutally raped by young men and they all got off because the boys grandfather was the chief of police. Where was God?

I talked to an attorney who was a staunch believer until he represented priest sex abuse cases and had to listen to really sick stuff. He walked away from his faith.

We tend to brush the things aside that God doesn't do but whoever really squarely faces the evil that happens and God does nothing about it? For years I was able to make excuses, and sweep aside the things I didn't understand but there comes a time in your walk when you have to not look away. You have to look squarely at the promises in Scripture and ask yourself why they aren't coming to pass.

I wonder if anyone has really faced these things and come out the other side and how they were able to reconcile it all.

I’ve thought about that question throughout my life. The evil people in this world tend to go unpunished while those that believe in God seem to be tested constantly...or so it seems. Our ability to see clearly God’s plan is limited in this world. We tend to think that God is not working in our lives and the lives of others around us if judgements are not passed out as we would give them. The road to heaven would be clear if God’s judgement was swift and exacting as soon as the wrong doing happened. However, we would also return to our God “beaten into submission” and out of fear of punishment not out of love for Him and a desire to follow His Son.

Your frustration is real because it is true that God allows His children to make mistakes (and dreadful one’s too) in this world without immediate punishment. God however is a just God and his judgements will be just for all those that break his commandments and even more severe for those that knowingly use their authority to intentionally harm others. So, whether in this life or the next all of us will have to answer to God for our actions whether good or evil.

As with Saul who became Paul, we don’t know when God will move in their lives. Saul was Saul for a long time and did a lot of damage to the Christians. God has his own timeline. Other’s might not ever respond to God’s call but I’m glad that you did.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
906
511
63
#24
I just have faith that there will come a day when everyone in the entire earth will be judged, even the worst of hypocrites.
Its not for me to say I want it in my lifetime or tomorrow.
God pretty much put up with the Israelites for 400 years before they were set free and could enter the promised land. This was so the cannaanites, who were idolators and sinners could fill up the cup of sin.

Even now He gives everyone time to repent.

Jesus did not kill the Pharisees who actually wanted to kill him first. He let God deal with them and it was AFTER his lifetime on earth that Paul was converted. So some of these things that are so wrong now, wont be righted until you have left. I know it hurts and you feel like you cant go on seeing so much pain and suffering in this world, but God does see every tear and has something better for you.

for what would be the alternative, rioting? You know you are better than that to take vengeance in your own hands You know thats not the way.
I told God I w
patience
I think some people have no patience which is one of the fruits of the holy spirit and one of the ones that ironically, you have to wait for to ripen.

some people, myself included, are used to instant gratification. You want something, it happens right this instant, now, in front of your very eyes. It would be like those speeded up camera things showing plants growing. But in reality our lives cant be put on fast fwd as it would lose its miracle of living a walk of faith day to day.
Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness. He fasted 40 days. It was not just one day and then it was over. The flood that carried Noahs Ark didnt happen in one day.
Moses had a 40 year apprenticeship.

even rome, they say, was not built in a day.

There will be times when God doesnt answer our prayer why because He is working on it! I think a lot of people just watch way too much tv and think life happens like that, with things they made earlier and everything already set up. But you know that in real life it takes ages to shoot a scene so what looks like a minute on screen in. reality took hours to film.
That's wisdom talking. I had a long-awaited for prayer answered but it was after 15 years and beating on heavens door. I have several more I'm really struggling with. I get soooooo weary.. I feel like I really need to see God answer. I feel Him so close but yet I grasp at the air.

Another Christian - a sibling - did something very serious, very very evil and then lied about it. It threw me into a tailspin. Following that another sister did something evil - it was like a double whammy from Satan. On top of that the sibling who I had formerly been close to manipulated our brother to lie to try to steal money from my share of money from my father's will. She found a corrupt lawyer who actually threatened me that I had better sign the will that they altered. I refused and he threatened me again. I contacted police and that was when I saw how CORRUPT everything was. Nothing was done to stop them and the sibling harassed my children trying to get them to turn against me. I had a very horrible family.
During that time I was dealing with overwhelming medical problems and the sibling knew it and actually tried to use it against me. She and the corrupt lawyer thought I needed money so they refused to settle the estate and dragged it out thinking that I would sign their corrupt alteration of my father's will.
The corrupt lawyer had a corrupt lawyer who worked in the court hide my LEGAL BRIEF. They all should have been arrested. They tormented me for two years.
It was answered prayer that after all that God let me have an honest judge - and I've learned that a number of them are corrupt.
So she decided in my favor. She shamed the lawyer - he stood up and she said "I don't need to hear from you!"
My husband said that had to get around the legal community. It still wasn't enough. They should have been arrested - they're not allowed to alter a will. That's what bothers me with God. Corruption was so bad and I prayed nonstop for His help. He did let me get an honest judge. That felt really good.
Then I gave the lawyer a scathing review and his boss called me and asked me to remove the review - I told him his lawyer stole $2,000 from my father's estate. So he returned the $2,000 to me and I removed the review - but I left the bad review of the lawyer. So he called me and asked if I would give his lawyer a good review. He was trying to work it out so I did. But after a week I got a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. He actually asked me to LIE and mislead others - so I refused and I changed the review back to bad. It's really slick how Satan can use people to get you to do something wrong. He's a CHRISTIAN lawyer. The sick feeling I got made me think about it and I thought that he wanted me to LIE and MISLEAD OTHERS. It just showed me how subtle Satan is and what loose morals "Christians" have where money is concerned. He just didn't want me telling the truth because it would hurt his business. It was really a selfish thing to do. He talked up how we both have the same beliefs and try to live by our faith - all the while trying to get me to lie and mislead others so they would go to his firm. It opened my eyes.

I contacted every single freeholder explaining that my mail was stolen. Every letter, additional brief I attempted to submit to the court was stolen. I reported my mail as being stolen and the sergeant who works at the prosecutors office said "no crime was committed." Just like that.

That's when I saw that we have NO CONSTITUTION. I had no protections. I put up with harassment from that lawyer and a psycho sibling trying to alter a LEGAL WILL and no one would lift a finger to stop it. We live in a corrupt country.

We just went to the funeral of a young person we knew when he was growing up. That lawyer's son was a drug dealer in the town and he knew it. In the greatest irony the DRUG DEALER IS NOW A LAWYER. How's that for a mind-blower? Then some poor black guy in Alabama has a doctor's note allowing him to have marijuana for injuries he sustained in Iraq and they threw the book at him and he was sentenced to jail for 5 years.

A lawyer working in the Probate office can COMMIT A FEDERAL OFFENSE AND STEAL MAIL AND NOTHING HAPPENS AND SOME POOR BLACK MAN WITH PAIN ISSUES IS THROWN INTO JAIL FOR FIVE YEARS.

We are NOT in a Constitutional Republic folks. We are under TYRANNY where the politically connected can do whatever they want and walk free.

That's part of why I'm so disgusted and discouraged with God. I was already under so much strain and got hit with two horrible spiritual attacks. The oldest sister should die for what she did. It was so evil that I just could not believe that God let her walk around. Scripture says "the wicked shall not live out half their days..." yet that witch is still living and destroying lives. These are the horrible inconsistencies with God that tear at my soul.

Where is God?

Where in the heck is He?

Why does Scripture say one thing and something ELSE happens???

Hasn't anyone ever had their soul ripped out by someone's evil and that person walks off seemingly unscathed? I beat on heaven's door and held those Scriptures up to God and told Him He was supposed to act.

But He didn't. Not only did that witch do something so horrendously, putridly evil, she joined with the other sister to try to steal money from my inheritance. She sat at that table and I felt like I was going to explode. She's a psychopath.
Scripture says "though hand join hand the wicked shall not go unpunished." But I didn't see them punished.

They were made a fool of when the judge shot the lawyer down but it wasn't enough. They should have been arrested.

These are the things with God that rip at my heart and I wrestle with. I just can't understand why God can't show me that they were all punished.

I can't understand why there was such a concentrated spiritual attack. It was bad.

I would appreciate anyone's prayers. I'm very weary and God needs to give me a rest from trials. I would be able to rest so much if I saw the truth of His word come to pass and the wicked were repaid.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
906
511
63
#25
When I look back on my years, I can distinctly see the Lord's intervention in many cases in my life. But in the grand scale of the world I also see evil prospering. And when it gets close to home, or right in my life, I gnash my teeth. When I hear of an outright criminal going free on a technicality I feel murderous myself. And although I am a sinner myself, I long for justice. But it will be still some time outstanding. Israel had the Law, and this should have brought equity to its subjects (for it was a Kingdom), but I think that towards the end, besides idol worship, the accusation most often leveled by Jehovah at them was biased judgments and oppression of the weak, widows and the fatherless.

But our grand example is the Master Himself - Jesus. As He was buffeted and beaten, and lied about, the King Who had the Father's ear could have asked for 12 legions of angels for Himself alone. Let's do the maths. Rome, at its peak, had 37 legions of MEN. But we read that man is made lower than the angels, and we read of one angel killing 185,000 men in one night in 2nd Kings 19. What then will stand against 12 legions of angels who have the go-ahead from their Master, Jehovah? Yet, for His Father's sake, and for our sakes, and for the sake of every Christian who will ever call upon the name of the Lord, Jesus kept silent. And now, He sits on the right hand IN the throne of Majesty "above the highest heaven", DOING SEEMINGLY NOTHING as His name is a profanity, an curse and an object of hate. For 1950 years He has been maligned and evil spoken of. And yet He waits. And His request to us is, "Patience please".

The martyrs under the altar are a wonderful example. Why? They have sensed the change of the age. In Luke 9, James and John would call fire down - as Elijah did, but are sharply rebuked. It was not the time for retribution. But our Lord does not rebuke the martyrs of Revelation 6. He asks a for little more patience. And patience for what? MORE EVIL! Some more dear Christians will be slain and slaughtered and join those praying. But in this lies the TRUTH that RETRIBUTION IS COMING! And when it comes the earth and its inhabitants buckle. Men want to die - but are not permitted by God. They must face the torment that has been building up for them since Cain.

There are some on this Forum who think that the Lake of Fire for EVER is unreasonable. But I tell you that it is an everlasting Monument to a God Who does not forget evil. It is an everlasting Monument to righteousness. Every blow struck against a man, woman, child and fetus, is a blow struck against God. And every blow struck against a Christian will be met by DOUBLE pain, but IN HIS TIME (Rev.18:6). John, about 95 when he wrote Revelation, writes that he is in the TRIBULATION and Kingdom and PATIENCE of the Lord. And it is to a Church with PATIENCE that Christ's ONLY COMMENDATION is sent in Revelation 3:10;

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

It is my ambition, though I am weak, to hear those words ring in my ear. Call me mercenary if you will. Maybe my motive should be love of my Savior, but I intend to run the full course for the REWARD. I know I can't do it by myself. My resource is Christ. And that Christ is my FORERUNNER. He has been though it all, and worse. He looks at your and my trials and sheds a tear for us, because He knew, and knows
the feelings we have. We just have to give him a little more time to do His marvelous work - and then we can watch, with mounting awe, just what He does with evildoers.
You see people like Gavin Newsom who acts like a little king ordering his subjects around. He is filled with the spirit of antichrist and yes I believe some evil should be punished with everlasting punishment.

I would appreciate everyones prayers. I'm very weary. I've been a soldier for a long time and I'm tired.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
906
511
63
#26
An attorney left his faith because of pedophiles deviant behaviors? Doesn't sound like they had much of a faith to begin with.
Sinners make a Christian stop believing in Jesus?

I hear people back in America where my family still lives say, God is in control.

Well, is he? Or isn't he? Could be all this stuff we see in the world and if you want to see some really odd stuff move to Germany, is a test for those who believe God is in control.
I'm sure he had to listen to some terribly sick stories from traumatized children. Do you think that you could sit and listen to a fresh-faced young child speak of the atrocities inflicted on his young body? I think a tender person who is protective, who is loving, caring, and has empathy for others - especially children - it has to tear your heart out. I fully understood the lawyer. I was going through terrible trials of my own at the time and it was good for me to speak with another believer who was questioning their faith.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
906
511
63
#27
An attorney left his faith because of pedophiles deviant behaviors? Doesn't sound like they had much of a faith to begin with.
Sinners make a Christian stop believing in Jesus?

I hear people back in America where my family still lives say, God is in control.

Well, is he? Or isn't he? Could be all this stuff we see in the world and if you want to see some really odd stuff move to Germany, is a test for those who believe God is in control.
Why is your family in America an your not?
Our Father always makes sense. Understanding His will is the wayt to follow Him. His will for each of us as He has ordained. No, we never understand perfectly but we have faith in our Father's

love and perfection.

Take a quick look at Mary. When Jesus would say or do something the totally perplexed her she did something we all should do. She kept it in her heart until understanding was given her.

There are many things we will never understand in this age therefore by faith we simply hold to them and believe. By faith we are able to always go forward.

There are so many examples of teachings we believe yet are not yet given to understand implicitly. Continue in our Savior by faith, and not understanding all will be a snap. After all there is only One Man Who understands all, the Word, our Savior, Jesus-Yeshua.
Some people are able to set the things aside. I guess that's where faith steps in at but it's an exercise.

People down through the ages have struggled with it. It's just now turn I suppose.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#28
patience
I think some people have no patience which is one of the fruits of the holy spirit and one of the ones that ironically, you have to wait for to ripen.

some people, myself included, are used to instant gratification. You want something, it happens right this instant, now, in front of your very eyes. It would be like those speeded up camera things showing plants growing. But in reality our lives cant be put on fast fwd as it would lose its miracle of living a walk of faith day to day.
Jesus spent 40 days in the wilderness. He fasted 40 days. It was not just one day and then it was over. The flood that carried Noahs Ark didnt happen in one day.
Moses had a 40 year apprenticeship.

even rome, they say, was not built in a day.

There will be times when God doesnt answer our prayer why because He is working on it! I think a lot of people just watch way too much tv and think life happens like that, with things they made earlier and everything already set up. But you know that in real life it takes ages to shoot a scene so what looks like a minute on screen in. reality took hours to film.
Yep, justice is always served... we don't just necessarily stick around sufficiently long (as humans) to see the verdict nor is the verdict always carried out in this life... the reasons for this will likely be understood upon transcending human existence into whatever lies beyond... also, not only individuals are constantly coming under judgment, but also, various groups of people, and whole nations, and humanity as a whole.
We're talking about a being who says things like this, considering centuries and millennia in a single glance:
Genesis 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
Human mind simply doesn't think on this wavelength.
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#29
I can't say that I have ever walked away from God.
Withdrawn from God?

Yes many times but never been truly happy when doing so and in that state.
Same here. Walked away - can't say I ever did, I did get drowned out by depression for a season a few times in trial, but I did not stop believing or anything like that. I did neglect prayer, I despaired in a moment, stuff like that. Do I stumble at times in weakness, yes. But I also get up and move forward. It's not possible to live again like I'm an unbeliever, when I accepted Jesus I did give up my own life, I'm not the same person I know something now that I didn't know then. God's presence is my peace.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
73
#30
You see people like Gavin Newsom who acts like a little king ordering his subjects around. He is filled with the spirit of antichrist and yes I believe some evil should be punished with everlasting punishment.

I would appreciate everyones prayers. I'm very weary. I've been a soldier for a long time and I'm tired.
There is another aspect to this matter of spiritual weariness. It is the grand lesson that we cannot do a thing by ourselves. Even if you were to say; "I'm through! I'm out!", you wouldn't be. The weariness would bother you, and giving up would bother you. And the Lord sometimes let's us have a "burnout" so that we come to the place where we say; "Lord, you do what you want. It's all the same to me". Some of us are zealous for the Lord and His things. Elijah was just such a one. He stands before a fearsome king, Ahab, and his more fearsome Gentile wife, Jezebel. He declares the words of the Lord. He takes them all on at Carmel. He calls down fire from heaven and then single-handed slays hundreds of false prophets. He had done what no prophet had done. But he is utterly weary because he perceived that his ministry had failed to achieve what it should have. Israel were as set on idol worship more than ever.

And with Jezebel's oath against him, he retires from Haifa to southern Judah in utter weariness and bids the Lord to kill him for he "was no better than the rest". The Lord's voice is not in a mighty howling wind, but a still small voice which asks; "What are you doing here Elijah? Who told you to flee?" So, I can almost assure you, based on a number of Bible narratives, and my own experience, if you retire from your relationship with your Bridegroom and flee - He will meet you wherever you go. He loves you, and lovers go deep into the wilderness for their partners. If you go down to the grave, He will find you there. If you ascend the highest mountain, expect to be waiting for you there. Why? Because NOTHING CATCHES GOD BY SURPRISE! He knew your present state of mind before you were born.

Peter denies the Lord, and although the Lord meets him privately and is Peter reconciled, the zest in Peter has died. Every time the Lord appears and the disciples suddenly recognize Him - He disappears again. No more miracles. No more exciting battles with demons In Peter is just a bone-weariness and a deep sense of failure. He says; "I go fishing!" Did the Lord stop him. No. Rather He meets him in his fishing. As if things are not bad enough, Peter's return to his proffession is a disaster. tey fish all night and catch nothing. And in his weariness, Peter is met like Elijah - with a MEAL. It is as if the Lord says; "Elijah ... Peter ... you are nothing in ministry and you have low blood sugar. You sit down and let ME serve you". Elijah complains; "I am alone!" God says, there are seven thousand of you, doing my work for me right now!"

Peter says, with slumped shoulders, we've caught nothing. I am a failure both in ministry and my profession. The Lord says, "Let ME!" And Peter catches 153 fishes! One hundred and fifty three! Lord, what a crazy number! But the Lord just smiles and says have you not read 2nd Chronicles 2:17? Did I not say that I would make you a fisher of men! Did I not say that you would reach the men who are "aliens" to Israel. Did Peter not grasp that the ministry of Jesus was to FILL the net. The full number of alien men - Gentiles - would eventually be reached by men like Peter. Was it not Peter, who said, "I go fishing", who hauled in the first "aliens" at the House of Cornelius for the One greater than Solomon.

Peter only started to be effective after he had given up. Many a Pastor will berate me for my advice to you. I say, Go on, give up! Take break. Just wake up every morning and say; "Lord, I love you but I'm finished". And the Lord will, in a small still voice, say; "What took you so long?" Let you and I join Jacob, who said to Pharaoh, "My days are few and evil". But while he wrestled with God, he received a New Name - Israel. Let us be like David. He must face the lion and the bear for his sheep's sake. He must face Goliath for Israel's sake. He must slaughter ten thousand and be famous - FOR WHAT? So that he can hide in caves for 14 years under constant threat of death from a king he had served so well. Are not the Psalms full of legitimate laments?

You are not alone. And God is never caught by surprise.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#31
what about Jonah
God tells him to go to Ninevah and he doesnt want to, to preach.
He preaches to the Ninevites, whom he doesnt like. He tells them. God is going to destroy their city. iN 40 days
Jonah actually wanted to watch their destruction. To his surprise, they repent, and then he gets all funny about it.

lol

I think when you are weary, just lay your burdens at the cross. Otherwise its a hard thing to bear. I am sorry about your family, and you feel like everything and all systems are against you. There are many times when you just want to quit. Jobs are easy to quit, churches, you can go to another one but not so much families.

maybe the key thing is to surrender. It sounds like youve done everything YOU can do. Its like applying for a job a hundred times, making all the effort with cvs and interviews and what not, that you get so sick and. tired of the process, and your money is running out, then one day a door just opens and the job falls into your lap without you even looking.
Im the same, preached all I can till my family are totally sick of it lol. None of them seem any closer to God. In fact, they probably hate Him more now cos of me.

Then God can take over.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
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#32
Same here. Walked away - can't say I ever did, I did get drowned out by depression for a season a few times in trial, but I did not stop believing or anything like that. I did neglect prayer, I despaired in a moment, stuff like that. Do I stumble at times in weakness, yes. But I also get up and move forward. It's not possible to live again like I'm an unbeliever, when I accepted Jesus I did give up my own life, I'm not the same person I know something now that I didn't know then. God's presence is my peace.
That's it - sometimes the trials get heavy to bear and you look to God and He doesn't lift them and you begin questioning what you believe. I know what you mean because you can't rewind it - and go back and say you're an unbeliever - but that's where the rub is. God has you in an awkward place. That's about where I'm at. It's a tough place to be but I'm trying to work through it to see what He wants. It's just very hard when no answers come and you just have to kind of block out that He didn't do what Scripture says. One that bothers me is "The wicked shall not live out half their days." But how many evil people do you know - or know of - who are living long lives? I can think of many. So that Scripture doesn't pan out.

These are the things I'm struggling with.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
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#33
There is another aspect to this matter of spiritual weariness. It is the grand lesson that we cannot do a thing by ourselves. Even if you were to say; "I'm through! I'm out!", you wouldn't be. The weariness would bother you, and giving up would bother you. And the Lord sometimes let's us have a "burnout" so that we come to the place where we say; "Lord, you do what you want. It's all the same to me". Some of us are zealous for the Lord and His things. Elijah was just such a one. He stands before a fearsome king, Ahab, and his more fearsome Gentile wife, Jezebel. He declares the words of the Lord. He takes them all on at Carmel. He calls down fire from heaven and then single-handed slays hundreds of false prophets. He had done what no prophet had done. But he is utterly weary because he perceived that his ministry had failed to achieve what it should have. Israel were as set on idol worship more than ever.

And with Jezebel's oath against him, he retires from Haifa to southern Judah in utter weariness and bids the Lord to kill him for he "was no better than the rest". The Lord's voice is not in a mighty howling wind, but a still small voice which asks; "What are you doing here Elijah? Who told you to flee?" So, I can almost assure you, based on a number of Bible narratives, and my own experience, if you retire from your relationship with your Bridegroom and flee - He will meet you wherever you go. He loves you, and lovers go deep into the wilderness for their partners. If you go down to the grave, He will find you there. If you ascend the highest mountain, expect to be waiting for you there. Why? Because NOTHING CATCHES GOD BY SURPRISE! He knew your present state of mind before you were born.

Peter denies the Lord, and although the Lord meets him privately and is Peter reconciled, the zest in Peter has died. Every time the Lord appears and the disciples suddenly recognize Him - He disappears again. No more miracles. No more exciting battles with demons In Peter is just a bone-weariness and a deep sense of failure. He says; "I go fishing!" Did the Lord stop him. No. Rather He meets him in his fishing. As if things are not bad enough, Peter's return to his proffession is a disaster. tey fish all night and catch nothing. And in his weariness, Peter is met like Elijah - with a MEAL. It is as if the Lord says; "Elijah ... Peter ... you are nothing in ministry and you have low blood sugar. You sit down and let ME serve you". Elijah complains; "I am alone!" God says, there are seven thousand of you, doing my work for me right now!"

Peter says, with slumped shoulders, we've caught nothing. I am a failure both in ministry and my profession. The Lord says, "Let ME!" And Peter catches 153 fishes! One hundred and fifty three! Lord, what a crazy number! But the Lord just smiles and says have you not read 2nd Chronicles 2:17? Did I not say that I would make you a fisher of men! Did I not say that you would reach the men who are "aliens" to Israel. Did Peter not grasp that the ministry of Jesus was to FILL the net. The full number of alien men - Gentiles - would eventually be reached by men like Peter. Was it not Peter, who said, "I go fishing", who hauled in the first "aliens" at the House of Cornelius for the One greater than Solomon.

Peter only started to be effective after he had given up. Many a Pastor will berate me for my advice to you. I say, Go on, give up! Take break. Just wake up every morning and say; "Lord, I love you but I'm finished". And the Lord will, in a small still voice, say; "What took you so long?" Let you and I join Jacob, who said to Pharaoh, "My days are few and evil". But while he wrestled with God, he received a New Name - Israel. Let us be like David. He must face the lion and the bear for his sheep's sake. He must face Goliath for Israel's sake. He must slaughter ten thousand and be famous - FOR WHAT? So that he can hide in caves for 14 years under constant threat of death from a king he had served so well. Are not the Psalms full of legitimate laments?

You are not alone. And God is never caught by surprise.
I'm finding there is a war against truth. I went through a battle with corrupt siblings. The oldest is the most evil. She did something really evil and she and my father pressured me to go along with a lie that she did nothing wrong. I cut them both off. My father showed up at my house months later and said that what I said was true. I asked him why he refused to admit it months ago and he said "Well if I said it she wouldn't bother with me."

So after that I spent two years battling her and another corrupt sibling and a corrupt lawyer who threatened me that I'd better sign their revised will or he would go after me for thousands in court. I fought that piece of garbage for two years. God did let me win in the end - I got an honest judge - but I was wore down. I still can't come to terms with it - every one of them should be in jail right now. But things are corrupt. Only those who aren't politically connected go to jail - the real criminals get off. The lawyer broke the law and actually threatened me.

I'm just weary. There is a war on the truth. Every Christian had better realize it. Look at the newsletter from Attorney John Whitehead from the Rutherford Institute and tell me there isn't a war on the truth:
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
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#34
End the Government’s War on America’s Military Veterans
By John W. Whitehead
November 9, 2020

For soldiers … coming home is more lethal than being in combat.” ― Brené Brown, research professor at the University of Houston​
The 2020 presidential election may be over, but nothing has really changed.

The U.S. government still poses the greatest threat to our freedoms.

More than terrorism, more than domestic extremism, more than gun violence and organized crime, even more than the perceived threat posed by any single politician, the U.S. government remains a greater menace to the life, liberty and property of its citizens than any of the so-called dangers from which the government claims to protect us.

This threat is especially pronounced for America’s military veterans, especially that portion of the population that exercises their First Amendment right to speak out against government wrongdoing.

Consider: we raise our young people on a steady diet of militarism and war, sell them on the idea that defending freedom abroad by serving in the military is their patriotic duty, then when they return home, bruised and battle-scarred and committed to defending their freedoms at home, we often treat them like criminals merely for exercising those rights they risked their lives to defend.


The government even has a name for its war on America’s veterans: Operation Vigilant Eagle.

As first reported by the Wall Street Journal, this Department of Homeland Security (DHS) program tracks military veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan and characterizes them as extremists and potential domestic terrorist threats because they may be “disgruntled, disillusioned or suffering from the psychological effects of war.”

Coupled with the DHS’ dual reports on Rightwing and Leftwing “Extremism,”which broadly define extremists as individuals, military veterans and groups “that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely,” these tactics bode ill for anyone seen as opposing the government.

Yet the government is not merely targeting individuals who are voicing their discontent so much as it is taking aim at individuals trained in military warfare.

Don’t be fooled by the fact that the DHS has gone extremely quiet about Operation Vigilant Eagle.

Where there’s smoke, there’s bound to be fire.

And the government’s efforts to target military veterans whose views may be perceived as “anti-government” make clear that something is afoot.

In recent years, military servicemen and women have found themselves increasingly targeted for surveillance, censorship, threatened with incarceration or involuntary commitment, labeled as extremists and/or mentally ill, and stripped of their Second Amendment rights.

In light of the government’s efforts to lay the groundwork to weaponize the public’s biomedical data and predict who might pose a threat to public safety based on mental health sensor data (a convenient means by which to penalize certain “unacceptable” social behaviors), encounters with the police could get even more deadly, especially if those involved have a mental illness or disability coupled with a military background.

Incredibly, as part of a proposal being considered by the Trump Administration, a new government agency HARPA (a healthcare counterpart to the Pentagon’s research and development arm DARPA) will take the lead in identifying and targeting “signs” of mental illness or violent inclinations among the populace by using artificial intelligence to collect data from Apple Watches, Fitbits, Amazon Echo and Google Home.

These tactics are not really new.

Many times throughout history in totalitarian regimes, such governments have declared dissidents mentally ill and unfit for society as a means of rendering them disempowering them.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
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#35
As Pulitzer Prize-winning author Anne Applebaum observes in Gulag: A History: “The exile of prisoners to a distant place, where they can ‘pay their debt to society,’ make themselves useful, and not contaminate others with their ideas or their criminal acts, is a practice as old as civilization itself. The rulers of ancient Rome and Greece sent their dissidents off to distant colonies.Socrates chose death over the torment of exile from Athens. The poet Ovid was exiled to a fetid port on the Black Sea.”

For example, government officials in the Cold War-era Soviet Union often used psychiatric hospitals as prisons in order to isolate political prisoners from the rest of society, discredit their ideas, and break them physically and mentally through the use of electric shocks, drugs and various medical procedures.

Insisting that “ideas about a struggle for truth and justice are formed by personalities with a paranoid structure,” the psychiatric community actually went so far as to provide the government with a diagnosis suitable for locking up such freedom-oriented activists.

In addition to declaring political dissidents mentally unsound, Russian officials also made use of an administrative process for dealing with individuals who were considered a bad influence on others or troublemakers.

Author George Kennan describes a process in which:
The obnoxious person may not be guilty of any crime . . . but if, in the opinion of the local authorities, his presence in a particular place is “prejudicial to public order” or “incompatible with public tranquility,” he may be arrested without warrant, may be held from two weeks to two years in prison, and may then be removed by force to any other place within the limits of the empire and there be put under police surveillance for a period of from one to ten years. Administrative exile–which required no trial and no sentencing procedure–was an ideal punishment not only for troublemakers as such, but also for political opponents of the regime.​
Sound familiar?

This age-old practice by which despotic regimes eliminate their critics or potential adversaries by declaring them mentally ill and locking them up in psychiatric wards for extended periods of time is a common practice in present-day China.

What is particularly unnerving, however, is how this practice of eliminating or undermining potential critics, including military veterans, is happening with increasing frequency in the United States.

Remember, the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) opened the door for the government to detain as a threat to national security anyone viewed as a troublemaker. According to government guidelines for identifying domestic extremists—a word used interchangeably with terrorists—technically, anyone exercising their First Amendment rights in order to criticize the government qualifies.

It doesn’t take much anymore to be flagged as potentially anti-government in a government database somewhere—Main Core, for example—that identifies and tracks individuals who aren’t inclined to march in lockstep to the government’s dictates.

In fact, as the Washington Post reports, communities are being mapped and residents assigned a color-coded threat score—green, yellow or red—so police are forewarned about a person’s potential inclination to be a troublemaker depending on whether they’ve had a career in the military, posted a comment perceived as threatening on Facebook, suffer from a particular medical condition, or know someone who knows someone who might have committed a crime.

The case of Brandon Raub is a prime example of Operation Vigilant Eagle in action.

Raub, a 26-year-old decorated Marine, actually found himself interrogated by government agents about his views on government corruption, arrested with no warning, labeled mentally ill for subscribing to so-called “conspiratorial” views about the government, detained against his will in a psych ward for standing by his views, and isolated from his family, friends and attorneys.

On August 16, 2012, a swarm of local police, Secret Service and FBI agents arrived at Raub’s Virginia home, asking to speak with him about posts he had made on his Facebook page made up of song lyrics, political opinions and dialogue used in a political thriller virtual card game.

Among the posts cited as troublesome were lyrics to a song by a rap group and Raub’s views, shared increasingly by a number of Americans, that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were an inside job.

After a brief conversation and without providing any explanation, levying any charges against Raub or reading him his rights, Raub was then handcuffed and transported to police headquarters, then to a medical center, where he was held against his will due to alleged concerns that his Facebook posts were “terrorist in nature.”

Outraged onlookers filmed the arrest and posted the footage to YouTube, where it quickly went viral. Meanwhile, in a kangaroo court hearing that turned a deaf ear to Raub’s explanations about the fact that his Facebook posts were being read out of context, Raub was sentenced to up to 30 days’ further confinement in a psychiatric ward.

Thankfully, The Rutherford Institute came to Raub’s assistance, which combined with heightened media attention, brought about his release and may have helped prevent Raub from being successfully “disappeared” by the government.

Even so, within days of Raub being seized and forcibly held in a VA psych ward, news reports started surfacing of other veterans having similar experiences.

“Oppositional defiance disorder” (ODD) is another diagnosis being used against veterans who challenge the status quo. As journalist Anthony Martin explains, an ODD diagnosis
“denotes that the person exhibits ‘symptoms’ such as the questioning of authority, the refusal to follow directions, stubbornness, the unwillingness to go along with the crowd, and the practice of disobeying or ignoring orders. Persons may also receive such a label if they are considered free thinkers, nonconformists, or individuals who are suspicious of large, centralized government… At one time the accepted protocol among mental health professionals was to reserve the diagnosis of oppositional defiance disorder for children or adolescents who exhibited uncontrollable defiance toward their parents and teachers.”​
Frankly, based on how well my personality and my military service in the U.S. Armed Forces fit with this description of “oppositional defiance disorder,” I’m sure there’s a file somewhere with my name on it.

That the government is using the charge of mental illness as the means by which to immobilize (and disarm) these veterans is diabolical. With one stroke of a magistrate’s pen, these veterans are being declared mentally ill, locked away against their will, and stripped of their constitutional rights.


HELP US CONTINUE TO SOUND THE ALARM: DONATE TODAY


If it were just being classified as “anti-government,” that would be one thing.

Unfortunately, anyone with a military background and training is also now being viewed as a heightened security threat by police who are trained to shoot first and ask questions later.

Feeding this perception of veterans as ticking time bombs in need of intervention, the Justice Department launched a pilot program in 2012 aimed at training SWAT teams to deal with confrontations involving highly trained and often heavily armed combat veterans.
 

saintrose

Well-known member
May 9, 2020
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#36
The result?

Police encounters with military veterans often escalate very quickly into an explosive and deadly situation, especially when SWAT teams are involved.

For example, Jose Guerena, a Marine who served in two tours in Iraq, was killed after an Arizona SWAT team kicked open the door of his home during a mistaken drug raid and opened fire. Thinking his home was being invaded by criminals, Guerena told his wife and child to hide in a closet, grabbed a gun and waited in the hallway to confront the intruders. He never fired his weapon. In fact, the safety was still on his gun when he was killed. The SWAT officers, however, not as restrained, fired 70 rounds of ammunition at Guerena—23 of those bullets made contact. Apart from his military background, Guerena had had no prior criminal record, and the police found nothing illegal in his home.

John Edward Chesney, a 62-year-old Vietnam veteran, was killed by a SWAT team allegedly responding to a call that the Army veteran was standing in his San Diego apartment window waving what looked like a semi-automatic rifle. SWAT officers locked down Chesney’s street, took up positions around his home, and fired 12 rounds into Chesney’s apartment window. It turned out that the gun Chesney reportedly pointed at police from three stories up was a “realistic-looking mock assault rifle.”

Ramon Hooks’ encounter with a Houston SWAT team did not end as tragically, but it very easily could have. Hooks, a 25-year-old Iraq war veteran, was using an air rifle gun for target practice outside when a Homeland Security Agent, allegedly house shopping in the area, reported him as an active shooter. It wasn’t long before the quiet neighborhood was transformed into a war zone, with dozens of cop cars, an armored vehicle and heavily armed police. Hooks was arrested, his air rifle pellets and toy gun confiscated, and charges filed against him for “criminal mischief.”

Given the government’s increasing view of veterans as potential domestic terrorists, it makes one think twice about government programs encouraging veterans to include a veterans designation on their drivers’ licenses and ID cards.

Hailed by politicians as a way to “make it easier for military veterans to access discounts from retailers, restaurants, hotels and vendors across the state,” it will also make it that much easier for the government to identify and target veterans who dare to challenge the status quo.

Remember: no one is spared in a police state.

Eventually, as I make clear in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, we all suffer the same fate.

It stands to reason that if the government can’t be bothered to abide by its constitutional mandate to respect the citizenry’s rights—whether it’s the right to be free from government surveillance and censorship, the right to due process and fair hearings, the right to be free from roadside strip searches and militarized police, or the right to peacefully assemble and protest and exercise our right to free speech—then why should anyone expect the government to treat our nation’s veterans with respect and dignity?

It’s time to end the government’s war on the American people, and that includes military veterans.

Certainly, veterans have enough physical and psychological war wounds to overcome without adding the government to the mix. Although the U.S. boasts more than 20 million veterans who have served in World War II through the present day, large numbers of veterans are impoverished, unemployed, traumatized mentally and physically, struggling with depression, suicide, and marital stress, homeless, subjected to sub-par treatment at clinics and hospitals, and left to molder while their paperwork piles up within Veterans Administration offices.

At least 60,000 veterans died by suicide between 2008 and 2017.

On average, 6,000 veterans kill themselves every year, and the numbers are on the rise.

The plight of veterans today—and their treatment at the hands of the U.S. government—remains America’s badge of shame.

So here’s a suggestion: if you really want to do something to show your respect and appreciation for the nation’s veterans, why not skip the parades and the flag-waving and instead go exercise your rights—the freedoms that those veterans swore to protect—by pushing back against the government’s tyranny.

It’s time the rest of the nation did its part to safeguard the freedoms we too often take for granted.

Freedom is not free.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#37
I'm finding there is a war against truth. I went through a battle with corrupt siblings. The oldest is the most evil. She did something really evil and she and my father pressured me to go along with a lie that she did nothing wrong. I cut them both off. My father showed up at my house months later and said that what I said was true. I asked him why he refused to admit it months ago and he said "Well if I said it she wouldn't bother with me."

So after that I spent two years battling her and another corrupt sibling and a corrupt lawyer who threatened me that I'd better sign their revised will or he would go after me for thousands in court. I fought that piece of garbage for two years. God did let me win in the end - I got an honest judge - but I was wore down. I still can't come to terms with it - every one of them should be in jail right now. But things are corrupt. Only those who aren't politically connected go to jail - the real criminals get off. The lawyer broke the law and actually threatened me.

I'm just weary. There is a war on the truth. Every Christian had better realize it. Look at the newsletter from Attorney John Whitehead from the Rutherford Institute and tell me there isn't a war on the truth:
I do not know the facts of the case, so I may not comment. But maybe you can read 1st Corinthians 6:1-8 and consider what is written there. This would be a situation that could have been added to my first posting.

Go well brother.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
2,081
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#38
One that bothers me is "The wicked shall not live out half their days." But how many evil people do you know - or know of - who are living long lives? I can think of many. So that Scripture doesn't pan out.

These are the things I'm struggling with.
Have you considered what it means to live? To have life more abundantly in Jesus?

...that they "may" have life and life more abundantly. The word "may" means to me that the option is there but it's still a choice.

It's John 10:10 and I don't have a version nearby that I like to quote exactly.


Do you think what the people living in sin or intentionally working iniquity have is life? I don't. It feels like decay and torment. I don't want to speak as though I have authority on what it's like for them but do you want the long life that God seems to allow them? Is that even life to you?

It's not life to me and it's making me a tad emotional (to my surprise) to see it this way but that doesn't look like long life to me. If anything, I at least know that the fullness of life is only found in him and when I stray I'm just surviving. The enemy has a well...form of life but it's like sodden decay.

Like, I could turn to him and have that...but, uh, why? That's not what I want and that's not life...that's death. Physically you are alive but spiritually you undergo decay and rot. What makes that look like the Lord isn't remaining true to what he said?

I feel like I have experienced this to an extent I'm not willing to speak about now.


To be sure, I also feel like the literal interpretation needs to be given its place as well. Many years of being physically alive doesn't imply a "full life with all the blessings and beauty of the Lord meted out unto old age".
I know for a fact I've had blessings that I've missed because I chose decay and my own way. Are there no blessings left? I don't think so and I don't feel so...but you do reap what you sow for God is not mocked (though that last part of the verse I'm still learning).

If a wicked person lives to be 120, does that make God a liar? Or are we just not understanding what abundant life is?

Something to consider...it's the first time I've seen it this way in this particular fashion and may be he is literal or it's a blend or this is just something for me to work through as truth or lie but does a rich person imply God's favor? Does that imply that they are living? Does evil triumph imply he loves them and it is "going well with them"?

It usually seems much clearer when talking to someone else about, In the watches of the night things are a bit "dicier" but you know, I have felt it smart to redeem the time when I have it available. It's been impressed on me in my heart. To store it up because there could be a storm coming that very night or the next day.

Hopefully some of this will speak to you, it's hard to put it into words because I have to wrestle against my fleshly desires (namely human justice according to "my" understanding and prosperity according to "my" understanding of righteousness usually in the physical) so I'll end but with a......
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
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#39
Anyone who claims otherwise is lying and it is actually sad how many would claim this tbh
That makes me a liar then because I have never looked back since the day I was born again.
Look back to what? That door was closed, locked, and the key toss as far as east from west........exactly where God threw my sins.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
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#40
That makes me a liar then because I have never looked back since the day I was born again.
Look back to what? That door was closed, locked, and the key toss as far as east from west........exactly where God threw my sins.
Yeah I think you know that wasn't what I was talking about.