Plea not to receive mark of the beast because of waiting for rapture
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1 Thessalonians 1:10 - "... the One delivering us ['us' = 'the Church which is His body,' per context] out-from [ek] THE WRATH COMING."
[i.e. every bit of it; Note: this text does not specify "whose" wrath... it just states "THE WRATH COMING"
(i.e. all of it that is coming )]
[i.e. every bit of it; Note: this text does not specify "whose" wrath... it just states "THE WRATH COMING"
(i.e. all of it that is coming )]
Is that wrath of God that make Stephen die from persecution?
I don't believe so, I believe It was the wrath of the devil.
Do you believe in that verse God promise us to deliver from the wrath of the devil?
What happen to Stephen, why God not deliver Stephen from that persecution? not do His promise?
Friend, God focus oN Spiritual more than physical deliverence.
God not delivere Stephen physically, but God deliver Stephen soul, He give him strength to endure in persecution, till die, refuse to Deny .
God Will give us strength in the great tribulation If we there.
In both of the Thessalonians epistles, Paul covers the subject of an "eschatological salvation" (so... for the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto"... this DOES concern our "physical" deliverance... when we take part in His "SNATCH [harpagēsometha (rapture)]" of us... [both of 'the DEAD in Christ' AND of the 'we which are ALIVE and remain unto' caught up TOGETHER] to "the meeting [noun] of the Lord in the air")... and Paul speaks of this event something like 8-10 times in these two epistles, using various terms and phrases (not JUST in 1Th4:17 alone).
"... the One delivering us out-from [ek] THE WRATH COMING"
[in past posts I've shown the very similar wording between Lam2:3-4 (with its "wrath" words in the surrounding verses) to that of 2Th2:7b-8a (with v.8a being at the START of the 7-yrs... not its MIDDLE nor its END)]
--Lam2:3 "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy..." (essentially saying, 'let 'er rip!' and "have at 'em!")
when we take part in His "SNATCH [harpagēsometha (rapture)]" of us... [both of 'the DEAD in Christ' AND of the 'we which are ALIVE and remain unto' caught up TOGETHER] to "the meeting [noun] of the Lord in the air")... and Paul speaks of this event something like 8-10 times in these two epistles, using various terms and phrases (not JUST in 1Th4:17 alone)."... the One delivering us out-from [ek] THE WRATH COMING"
[in past posts I've shown the very similar wording between Lam2:3-4 (with its "wrath" words in the surrounding verses) to that of 2Th2:7b-8a (with v.8a being at the START of the 7-yrs... not its MIDDLE nor its END)]
--Lam2:3 "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy..." (essentially saying, 'let 'er rip!' and "have at 'em!")
Please see the following posts I've made in the past (will save me much typing tonight = ) ) :
Post #290 - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4095977
THEN Post #289 - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4095956
Post #284 - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4095851
Post #281 (similar to the post I made awhile ago on this thread on the previous page) - https://christianchat.com/threads/what-is-your-best-proof-for-a-pre-trib-rapture.188798/post-4095748
I'd be happy to clarify any of this, should you request it. = )
... and note what God uses (and to what end/purpose):
Habakkuk 1:6,12b -
6 For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans [i.e. the Babylonians]
that ruthless and impetuous nation
which marches through the breadth of the earth
to seize dwellings not their own.
[...]
O LORD, You have appointed them [the Chaldeans/Babylonians]
to execute judgment;
O Rock, You have established them [the Chaldeans/Babylonians]
for correction.
[may the readers recall: "the TIMES of the Gentiles" refers to "Gentile domination over Israel," which STARTED in 606/605bc re: Neb's dream/statue/image, with Neb (king of Babylon) as "head of gold," and which will not CONCLUDE until the END of the future TRIB YRS, per Rev11:2 (Lk21:24)... and pertains to the "Jerusalem... trodden down of the Gentiles" thing ]
Habakkuk 1:6,12b -
6 For behold, I am raising up the Chaldeans [i.e. the Babylonians]
that ruthless and impetuous nation
which marches through the breadth of the earth
to seize dwellings not their own.
[...]
O LORD, You have appointed them [the Chaldeans/Babylonians]
to execute judgment;
O Rock, You have established them [the Chaldeans/Babylonians]
for correction.
[may the readers recall: "the TIMES of the Gentiles" refers to "Gentile domination over Israel," which STARTED in 606/605bc re: Neb's dream/statue/image, with Neb (king of Babylon) as "head of gold," and which will not CONCLUDE until the END of the future TRIB YRS, per Rev11:2 (Lk21:24)... and pertains to the "Jerusalem... trodden down of the Gentiles" thing
]^
--2Th2:7b "7 For the mystery of lawlessness is working already; [b] there is only the one at present restraining it, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [/come to be]. 8 AND THEN [kai tote] the lawless one will be revealed... "
[compare with]
----Lam2:3 "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy..." (essentially saying, 'let 'er rip!' and "have at 'em!")
[and note what I'd put in Post #148, along with this ^ ]
--2Th2:7b "7 For the mystery of lawlessness is working already; [b] there is only the one at present restraining it, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [/come to be]. 8 AND THEN [kai tote] the lawless one will be revealed... "
[compare with]
----Lam2:3 "...he hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy..." (essentially saying, 'let 'er rip!' and "have at 'em!")
[and note what I'd put in Post #148, along with this ^ ]
""I have read all of your posts and none of them have bible verses which you base your rapture beliefs on""
No you haven't
You lied big time
""May you please provide the points that the rapture theory has as well as the bible verses to prove those points""
Pick one
Mat 24 mat 25 ,I thes 4,rev 14,rev 19,the 2 escape verses,the dialog at the last supper.
You guys have zero verses..not a one.....nothing.
Post one.
Post one verse that proves either a postrib rapture, or that all the verses proving the rapture is pretrib are actually Jesus being confused.
Ok...go.
I will wait
No you haven't
You lied big time
""May you please provide the points that the rapture theory has as well as the bible verses to prove those points""
Pick one
Mat 24 mat 25 ,I thes 4,rev 14,rev 19,the 2 escape verses,the dialog at the last supper.
You guys have zero verses..not a one.....nothing.
Post one.
Post one verse that proves either a postrib rapture, or that all the verses proving the rapture is pretrib are actually Jesus being confused.
Ok...go.
I will wait
S
It is obvious by your use of the phrase "the rapture theory" that you might want to take longer before you make your conclusions. It is not wrong to wait until you have learned more before deciding one way or the other. I think you might mean "pre-tribulation rapture theory" but you say "rapture theory" instead which is not a little mistake. The fact that there will be a generation of believers who will be alive and not see death and be changed into a glorified state equal to the resurrected saints and rise and meet the Lord in the air is an event that is not up for debate. Therefore to state that you do not believe in a rapture is like saying you don't believe in a second coming of Christ. Since you can make such a mistake without noticing it, I would take it as a sign to yourself that you are not yet expert enough on the subject to discount even the pre-tribulation rapture theory and give yourself more time and study. However if you do choose to reject the pre-tribulation theory please do not fall into the sin of condemning others who do of believing doctrines of demons or being tools of satan. Those who react this way are showing that their opinions about the rapture are irrelevant because they are not ready for the second coming of Jesus. They are in dire need of understanding how to love their brothers and not judge them for their eschatological views. I might have already told you this, I seem to be responding to many "anti-rapture" evangelists lately
We PROVE the second coming is not the rapture.
How?
Scripture.
No a one of you can challenge that.
You never do.
Take the TIME to learn.
RECONCILE the verses THAT PROVE the rapture is a separate event.
That's the thing. I DO NOT need it to be one and the same.
YOU DO. You can not reconcile it. I DO NOT have that obstacle to UNLEARN.
The other obstacle you have is rev 14 and 1 thes 4.
YOU CAN NOT reconcile the 2.
Your job is an impossible one.
You Can Not have the dead in Christ come to life AFTER the gathering of rev 14.
IMPOSSIBLE
Your deal is impossible.
How?
Scripture.
No a one of you can challenge that.
You never do.
Take the TIME to learn.
RECONCILE the verses THAT PROVE the rapture is a separate event.
That's the thing. I DO NOT need it to be one and the same.
YOU DO. You can not reconcile it. I DO NOT have that obstacle to UNLEARN.
The other obstacle you have is rev 14 and 1 thes 4.
YOU CAN NOT reconcile the 2.
Your job is an impossible one.
You Can Not have the dead in Christ come to life AFTER the gathering of rev 14.
IMPOSSIBLE
Your deal is impossible.
This would mean only part of the body of Christ, the church, would go through the tribulation because the majority of the church has died and is in the presence of the Lord. According to your philosophy, only the part of the body of Christ, those who are alive at the time of the tribulation, will go through it.
Why would the Lord only allow part of the body to go through it? Shouldn't it be all or none?
Why would the Lord only allow part of the body to go through it? Shouldn't it be all or none?
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