Works righteousness.

[Corban]

What are you enduring?

You see brothers, a discussion arises about salvation. Different opinions fly around. Why? Because some of us won't admit that "salvation" covers many aspects, and there are many "salvations". The context must modify what salvation is being spoken about. If one scripture speaks of 8 souls SAVED FROM WATER, it means one thing - usually the Ark. But if scripture says 8 souls were saved BY water, it pertains to the clearing of the conscience - one of the functions of Baptism. BOTH of these do NOT address the Lake of Fire. NEITHER address inheriting the Kingdom. And then I might ask was Israel saved from Pharaoh's armies by the blood of the Lamb, or by water?

From my side I found the one-liner answers ominous. My posting contained no opinions - just scripture. The answer to all those differing "salvations" is contained in my short paragraph above. Agree? If not, please tell us.

 

[Corban]

Yep. But those scriptures do not say what you think they say

If all Those things are required my points stand

That is quite a claim, my esteemed brother - to claim that you know what I think, without me writing any comments.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is quite a claim, my esteemed brother - to claim that you know what I think, without me writing any comments.

Well did you not say those passages say what one must do to be saved? (If you did not mean saved as in eternal salvation. Then I am wrong)

 

[Corban]

Well did you not say those passages say what one must do to be saved? (If you did not mean saved as in eternal salvation. Then I am wrong)

No problem. My motive is explained in posting # 101.

 

[Yahshua]

ok if your willing can we break down step by step . ok it looks like you only believe that past sins are forgiven . I believe we recieve remission and redemption. The price fully paid . All sins past present and future all paid for at the cross. All sins we committed were still future 2000 years ago when Jesus paid for them in his blood . Sin cannot be the issue anymore for anyone now , only glorification.

Ok. I'm noting the difference between the payment and the cleansing.

----

The wage of sin is death. Dying. Deadness. The ending of life. The Messiah truly paid for all sins past present future, for all people (both believers and non-believers)...when he died.

One time, for all.

But that death did not get rid of the sin. That death satisfied the payment for the offense.

That death is not the cleansing; the smearing; the anointing of the most holy; the mediation. Only the blood can do that. Only the blood can cleanse a guilty conscience (this is why future sins aren't automatically cleansed. There's nothing to cleanse until there is guilt).

The death needed to happen to pay the wage and to get the blood necessary for the heavenly work. Now the blood is gotten and ready for any who will confess...but not all receive it unless and until they believe and confess.

The death was unconditional (i.e. for the whole world).

But receiving the blood for cleansing is conditional (i.e. only those who believe).

If sin wasn't fully dealt with at the cross then we have un equal salvation . Think about it . Every old testament Saint who died and was awaiting redemption. Recieved it , So did we all .

[By the way, when you say "fully dealt with" i interpret it as meaning both (a) paid for and (b) cleansed (c) removed. So if you mean it differently just let me know].

If sin was fully dealt with upon the Messiah's death no one would continue to sin today. Sin would be gone.

The Messiah's death took care of the wage of sin...not the cleansing of sin. His life as High Priest takes care of cleansing for His people. Sin will be removed when the Messiah returns in judgment.

There are two (2) goats presented on the day of atonement for a single sin offering for the people. One dies for the wage. The other lives and leads the sin away. So there are two works: a death work and then a life work. The cross was the death work. The heavenly ministry is the life work.

Jesus taught the 'Lords prayer ' to jews . The Jewish diciples in the old testament , pre crucifixion . ( Mathew 6 ) . After Acts 2 we pray not corporate prayers but direct and personally " abba father " .

It sounds like you have replaced the old testament sacrifice system with ' confessing sins ' . If you read the epistles you will see that sin has been dealt with before we believed . Israel sins ( The Nation ) are yet future to be blotted out . Acts 3 however .

But the Almighty's not a respecter of persons is what Paul says in Romans 2. I interpret Romans 2 as meaning both groups will be judged based on their deeds; for the Jew based on the law they were untrusted with...and for the gentile based on the portion of law written on their hearts.

 

[AlmondJoy]

ok if your willing can we break down step by step . ok it looks like you only believe that past sins are forgiven . I believe we recieve remission and redemption. The price fully paid . All sins past present and future all paid for at the cross. All sins we committed were still future 2000 years ago when Jesus paid for them in his blood . Sin cannot be the issue anymore for anyone now , only glorification.

Does the Holyghost convict you when you willfully sin and cause you to repent of your sin?

 

[throughfaith]

Ok. I'm noting the difference between the payment and the cleansing.

----

The wage of sin is death. Dying. Deadness. The ending of life. The Messiah truly paid for all sins past present future, for all people (both believers and non-believers)...when he died.

One time, for all.

But that death did not get rid of the sin. That death satisfied the payment for the offense.

That death is not the cleansing; the smearing; the anointing of the most holy; the mediation. Only the blood can do that. Only the blood can cleanse a guilty conscience (this is why future sins aren't automatically cleansed. There's nothing to cleanse until there is guilt).

The death needed to happen to pay the wage and to get the blood necessary for the heavenly work. Now the blood is gotten and ready for any who will confess...but not all receive it unless and until they believe and confess.

The death was unconditional (i.e. for the whole world).

But receiving the blood for cleansing is conditional (i.e. only those who believe).




[By the way, when you say "fully dealt with" i interpret it as meaning both (a) paid for and (b) cleansed (c) removed. So if you mean it differently just let me know].

If sin was fully dealt with upon the Messiah's death no one would continue to sin today. Sin would be gone.

The Messiah's death took care of the wage of sin...not the cleansing of sin. His life as High Priest takes care of cleansing for His people. Sin will be removed when the Messiah returns in judgment.

There are two (2) goats presented on the day of atonement for a single sin offering for the people. One dies for the wage. The other lives and leads the sin away. So there are two works: a death work and then a life work. The cross was the death work. The heavenly ministry is the life work.






But the Almighty's not a respecter of persons is what Paul says in Romans 2. I interpret Romans 2 as meaning both groups will be judged based on their deeds; for the Jew based on the law they were untrusted with...and for the gentile based on the portion of law written on their hearts.

Sin remains because of the flesh .

 

[throughfaith]

Ok. I'm noting the difference between the payment and the cleansing.

----

The wage of sin is death. Dying. Deadness. The ending of life. The Messiah truly paid for all sins past present future, for all people (both believers and non-believers)...when he died.

One time, for all.

But that death did not get rid of the sin. That death satisfied the payment for the offense.

That death is not the cleansing; the smearing; the anointing of the most holy; the mediation. Only the blood can do that. Only the blood can cleanse a guilty conscience (this is why future sins aren't automatically cleansed. There's nothing to cleanse until there is guilt).

The death needed to happen to pay the wage and to get the blood necessary for the heavenly work. Now the blood is gotten and ready for any who will confess...but not all receive it unless and until they believe and confess.

The death was unconditional (i.e. for the whole world).

But receiving the blood for cleansing is conditional (i.e. only those who believe).




[By the way, when you say "fully dealt with" i interpret it as meaning both (a) paid for and (b) cleansed (c) removed. So if you mean it differently just let me know].

If sin was fully dealt with upon the Messiah's death no one would continue to sin today. Sin would be gone.

The Messiah's death took care of the wage of sin...not the cleansing of sin. His life as High Priest takes care of cleansing for His people. Sin will be removed when the Messiah returns in judgment.

There are two (2) goats presented on the day of atonement for a single sin offering for the people. One dies for the wage. The other lives and leads the sin away. So there are two works: a death work and then a life work. The cross was the death work. The heavenly ministry is the life work.






But the Almighty's not a respecter of persons is what Paul says in Romans 2. I interpret Romans 2 as meaning both groups will be judged based on their deeds; for the Jew based on the law they were untrusted with...and for the gentile based on the portion of law written on their hearts.

The issue has been dealt with in the sense of reconciliation.
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2cor 2.19

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2

All sin is dealt with . Its no longer the issue. But we sin still because we are still in the flesh ( rom 7 ) Yes we have the ' new man ' but the ' old man ' still resides . Thats why we are longing for the Adoption the redemption of the body . Bodily resurrection. For believers the spirit is already resurrected.
Eph 2
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

[throughfaith]

Does the Holyghost convict you when you willfully sin and cause you to repent of your sin?

Which verse please about the Holy Ghost convicts believers?

 

[bud62]

He continues day by day moment by moment making intercession for us

If you want to find god's way it is in the Sanctuary, And if you want to know what JESUS'S work is and what HE is DOING today, YOU haft to learn WHAT THE HIGH PRIEST DOES IN THE Sanctuary, FOR THAT IS what he is DOING for US .
MAKING intercession for us IN THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY.

PSALMS 77:13 Thy way, O God, [is] in the sanctuary: who [is so] great a God as [our] God

 

[bud62]

It is not yet given to the saints to judge to condemnations.

I always have in ming to extend mercy and forgiveness lest I lose it..

Also, God has declared that if it is His will to justify the ungodly, so what!? I take that as another warning not to judge.

When we see a brother sin, and we advise hi against what he has done, and he repent, he is in the grace of Yeshua..

Let us not get into judging individualsw for this privilege had not been handed over.

IF I tell you something that is in the BIBLE, IT is not me that is doing the judging IT IS GOD'S word, And YESUAH NTELL US THAT HIS WORD WILL JUDGE US,

 

[Duskey]

You see brothers, a discussion arises about salvation. Different opinions fly around. Why? Because some of us won't admit that "salvation" covers many aspects, and there are many "salvations". The context must modify what salvation is being spoken about. If one scripture speaks of 8 souls SAVED FROM WATER, it means one thing - usually the Ark. But if scripture says 8 souls were saved BY water, it pertains to the clearing of the conscience - one of the functions of Baptism. BOTH of these do NOT address the Lake of Fire. NEITHER address inheriting the Kingdom. And then I might ask was Israel saved from Pharaoh's armies by the blood of the Lamb, or by water?

From my side I found the one-liner answers ominous. My posting contained no opinions - just scripture. The answer to all those differing "salvations" is contained in my short paragraph above. Agree? If not, please tell us.

You didn’t answer my question nor are you looking at salvation correctly. If you believe Jesus‘s sinless life, death and resurrection were not complete fulfillment to God on our behalf then you are worshiping an incorrect god. Jesus conquered death; your god didn’t.

 

[bud62]

Romans 10:4

THERE IS NO SIN WITHOUT THE LAW,
IF GOD DONE AWAY WITH THE LAW, WHAT WOULD WE NEED A SAVOUR FOR, THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SIN IS BRAKING GOD'S LAWS, THE LAW SHOW US OUR SINS SO WE CAN QUIT SINNING AS GOD SHOW US KNOWLEDGE IN HIS LAW WHAT IS SIN.

 

[Duskey]

IF I tell you something that is in the BIBLE, IT is not me that is doing the judging IT IS GOD'S word, And YESUAH NTELL US THAT HIS WORD WILL JUDGE US,

Matthew 7:1-5

 

[Magenta]

THERE IS NO SIN WITHOUT THE LAW,
IF GOD DONE AWAY WITH THE LAW, WHAT WOULD WE NEED A SAVOUR FOR, THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SIN IS BRAKING GOD'S LAWS, THE LAW SHOW US OUR SINS SO WE CAN QUIT SINNING AS GOD SHOW US KNOWLEDGE IN HIS LAW WHAT IS SIN.

Please stop yelling at us... Not only is it rude, it is difficult to read.

Nobody is saved by following the law.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.

 

[bud62]

Please stop yelling at us... Not only is it rude, it is difficult to read.

Nobody is saved by following the law.

The law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.

That was the handwritings of Moses just like this verse tell us which was the sacrificial laws
COLOSSIANS 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. This show us that it was sacrificial laws that was removed at the cross, not the Commandments

 

[Magenta]

That was the handwritings of Moses just like this verse tell us which was the sacrificial laws
COLOSSIANS 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. This show us that it was sacrificial laws that was removed at the cross, not the Commandments

It was not just circumcision and sacrificial laws

Acts 15:5 But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” 6 So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.

7 After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.

10 Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 

[Guojing]

The Messiah's death took care of the wage of sin...not the cleansing of sin. His life as High Priest takes care of cleansing for His people. Sin will be removed when the Messiah returns in judgment.

You are probably thinking about Acts 3:19-21, 1 Peter 1 and 1 Peter 4. That is Israel's program. Their sins are indeed only fully blotted out when Christ returns for them in his 2nd coming (Acts 3:19-21)

For us in the Body of Christ, Romans 5:12-19 is our instruction. It is not our individual sins that is the problem. It was Adam's sinful nature.

Thus, when we accept Christ death burial and resurrection, it took care of the sin problem in our spirit, and our spirit is now imputed with Christ's righteousness. Our flesh still sin though since it will only be redeemed at the rapture (1 Cor 15:51-55)

 

[Duskey]

That was the handwritings of Moses just like this verse tell us which was the sacrificial laws
COLOSSIANS 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. This show us that it was sacrificial laws that was removed at the cross, not the Commandments

No grace in your theology. ☹️

 

[bud62]

No grace in your theology. ☹️

You are miss under standing GOD Grace,
GOD grace is to for give me the sins that I have Committed And clean me of my past sins that I have the death sentence for for the that I have already And deserve to die for, But dies my place for those sins,
YESUAH grace is not giving me the right to keep braking HIS LAWS, but to repent and give up, My committing sins and turn away from sinning,
As The WORD OF GOD tells us in this verse,
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
If JESUS cleans you of your sin, then you go right back out and sin, then you will need cleansed AGAIN, because you would have sinned after you was clean, But by his grace he DID clean us , but it is our fault that we sinned And are unclean again, this is not hard to understand,
3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2:18 For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
If you read this and don't see the truth about going back out in sin , it is because you don't want to know the truth, And I believe that THOSE that don't really want to know the truth about sinning after they come to JESUS to get clean of their past sins, will be lost for not wanting the true knowledge for sin after getting clean, The BIBLE says ,
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?