Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?
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It certainly is, and will prepare the way for the backsliding and apostasy of many Christians!
Matt 24v45-51, esp v48: "'My master is delaying his coming...",
Why does the evil servant think the Lord Jesus has delayed His Coming?
Because the evil servant believes a (secret) pre- tribulation advent and rapture, so when He doesn't come pre-tribulation, the evil servant, not being spiritually prepared to through the Great Tribulation, backslides and goes into apostasy, the teaching of the 5 foolish virgins also teaches the same!
Also, Rev 7v9,10,14, shows the Great Tribulation overcoming Christians who have come "out of" (Greek prep. "ek") the tribulation, the great one...(two definite articles in the Greek with "great" and "tribulation". You have to be "in" something before you can come "out of" it!
The Lord Jesus taught that only false prophets and teachers would teach a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture as He would come in great power and glory so that "every eye would see Him." Matt 24v23-31, Rev 1v9, Titus 2v13 (note: "glorious appearing.")
The early Church fathers and Christians all believed that the Church would suffer at the hands of Antichrist, so that the evil doctrine of a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture was unknown in the Church until the early 1830's when it came into Edward Irving's church through a false prophecy of a young Scottish teenager Margret McDonald.
The secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture destructive heresy will be the worst lie that will cause the greatest damage to Christians in the last 7 years of this age.
Matt 24v45-51, esp v48: "'My master is delaying his coming...",
Why does the evil servant think the Lord Jesus has delayed His Coming?
Because the evil servant believes a (secret) pre- tribulation advent and rapture, so when He doesn't come pre-tribulation, the evil servant, not being spiritually prepared to through the Great Tribulation, backslides and goes into apostasy, the teaching of the 5 foolish virgins also teaches the same!
Also, Rev 7v9,10,14, shows the Great Tribulation overcoming Christians who have come "out of" (Greek prep. "ek") the tribulation, the great one...(two definite articles in the Greek with "great" and "tribulation". You have to be "in" something before you can come "out of" it!
The Lord Jesus taught that only false prophets and teachers would teach a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture as He would come in great power and glory so that "every eye would see Him." Matt 24v23-31, Rev 1v9, Titus 2v13 (note: "glorious appearing.")
The early Church fathers and Christians all believed that the Church would suffer at the hands of Antichrist, so that the evil doctrine of a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture was unknown in the Church until the early 1830's when it came into Edward Irving's church through a false prophecy of a young Scottish teenager Margret McDonald.
The secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture destructive heresy will be the worst lie that will cause the greatest damage to Christians in the last 7 years of this age.
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Those are people who will be coming to faith IN/DURING/WITHIN the future, specific, limited time-period (FOLLOWING our Rapture/Departure) that they will be existing in (who are commonly called Tribulation saints)... Compare also verses 15-17 (Rev7) with Isaiah 49:10 (an earthly Millennial Kingdom verse and passage). These folks are not "the Church which is His body," nor are "the 144,000 [12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel listed there, in the first half of same chpt]".
No, He didn't.
Do you realize that He had said (just before going to the Cross), "I have YET MANY THINGS TO SAY unto you, BUT..." (Jn16:12-15)... and that those "many things" are what is recorded in Scripture FOLLOWING His death/resurrection/ascension/exaltation... including what the Holy Spirit wrote through Paul's pen, here:
"when the Christ -- our life -- may be manifested, then also we[/you] [the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] him shall be manifested in glory."
I posted some time back, an article showing that her words did NOT reflect a "PRE-trib" viewpoint/understanding... I'll try to come back later and post that again. Perhaps you did not see that when I posted it, back then (more than once). What you've said above is merely repeating things [that simply are not accurate], sorry to say.
When you see how, in Scripture, the phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY," whenever used in the SAME CONTEXT, are both speaking of the SAME TIME-PERIOD, then you can look at Paul's use of BOTH of these [in same context] in 2Th 1 & 2, and see that he is telling of two contrasting "beliefs" that ppl will come to embrace IN/DURING/WITHIN that future, specific, limited time-period [i.e. in the trib yrs], and it is not as you suggest...
No, He didn't.
Do you realize that He had said (just before going to the Cross), "I have YET MANY THINGS TO SAY unto you, BUT..." (Jn16:12-15)... and that those "many things" are what is recorded in Scripture FOLLOWING His death/resurrection/ascension/exaltation... including what the Holy Spirit wrote through Paul's pen, here:
"when the Christ -- our life -- may be manifested, then also we[/you] [the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY] WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] him shall be manifested in glory."
I posted some time back, an article showing that her words did NOT reflect a "PRE-trib" viewpoint/understanding... I'll try to come back later and post that again. Perhaps you did not see that when I posted it, back then (more than once). What you've said above is merely repeating things [that simply are not accurate], sorry to say.
When you see how, in Scripture, the phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY," whenever used in the SAME CONTEXT, are both speaking of the SAME TIME-PERIOD, then you can look at Paul's use of BOTH of these [in same context] in 2Th 1 & 2, and see that he is telling of two contrasting "beliefs" that ppl will come to embrace IN/DURING/WITHIN that future, specific, limited time-period [i.e. in the trib yrs], and it is not as you suggest...
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[repeating the old post about Margaret M (addressing Post #203 by jb)... quoting old post...]
[the two sentences by M.MacDonald which were later removed, demonstrating she believed the rapture would be POST-trib, not PRE-trib
]
[quoting from wikipedia]
"The rise in belief in the pre-tribulation rapture is often wrongly attributed to a 15-year-old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald who was of the first to receive a spiritual baptism under a Pentecostal awakening in Scotland. In 1830, she supposedly had a vision of the end times which describes a post-tribulation view of the rapture that was first published in 1840. It was published again in 1861, but two important passages demonstrating a post-tribulation view were removed to encourage confusion concerning the timing of the rapture. The two removed segments were, "This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus" and "The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept".[83][84]
[...]
"References [...]
"83. ^ Hommel, Jason. "Margaret MacDonald's Vision"
[ https:/ /web.archive.org/web/20030115080400/http://www.bibleprophesy.org/vision.htm ] . Jason Hommel's Bible Prophecy Study on the Pre Tribulation Rapture. Grass Valley, California. Archived from the original on 15 January 2003. Retrieved 14 November 2016. Quotes the account in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861).
"84. ^ Wilkinson, Paul Richard (1 December 2008). "Appendix: Margaret McDonald's Utterances". For Zion's Sake: Christian Zionism and the Role of John Nelson Darby. Wipf and Stock Publishers. pp. 262–263. ISBN 1556358075. A more complete version, combining the text in Norton's Memoirs and that in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), all cited secondary from Macpherson, The Incredible Coverup."
https:/ /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
[end quoting wikipedia; bold and underline mine, color mine; inserted the link which didn't transfer from the article automatically, but you can find them there in the wiki article itself]
____________
[... I hope ppl only go to that link to see the two sentences which apparently were removed at a later time, but which show her to have described "the Church" going through the tribulation period, not being removed prior to it as the "pre-trib" doctrine shows]
[end quoting old post]
__________
Cross that point off your list It is not accurate.
[the two sentences by M.MacDonald which were later removed, demonstrating she believed the rapture would be POST-trib, not PRE-trib
][quoting from wikipedia]
"The rise in belief in the pre-tribulation rapture is often wrongly attributed to a 15-year-old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald who was of the first to receive a spiritual baptism under a Pentecostal awakening in Scotland. In 1830, she supposedly had a vision of the end times which describes a post-tribulation view of the rapture that was first published in 1840. It was published again in 1861, but two important passages demonstrating a post-tribulation view were removed to encourage confusion concerning the timing of the rapture. The two removed segments were, "This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus" and "The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept".[83][84]
[...]
"References [...]
"83. ^ Hommel, Jason. "Margaret MacDonald's Vision"
[ https:/ /web.archive.org/web/20030115080400/http://www.bibleprophesy.org/vision.htm ] . Jason Hommel's Bible Prophecy Study on the Pre Tribulation Rapture. Grass Valley, California. Archived from the original on 15 January 2003. Retrieved 14 November 2016. Quotes the account in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861).
"84. ^ Wilkinson, Paul Richard (1 December 2008). "Appendix: Margaret McDonald's Utterances". For Zion's Sake: Christian Zionism and the Role of John Nelson Darby. Wipf and Stock Publishers. pp. 262–263. ISBN 1556358075. A more complete version, combining the text in Norton's Memoirs and that in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), all cited secondary from Macpherson, The Incredible Coverup."
https:/ /en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
[end quoting wikipedia; bold and underline mine, color mine; inserted the link which didn't transfer from the article automatically, but you can find them there in the wiki article itself]
____________
[... I hope ppl only go to that link to see the two sentences which apparently were removed at a later time, but which show her to have described "the Church" going through the tribulation period, not being removed prior to it as the "pre-trib" doctrine shows]
[end quoting old post]
__________
Cross that point off your list
It is not accurate.[now to address THIS portion of your post]
No.
Read the PARALLEL passage to Matthew 24:45-51 [and even starting back at v.42]... this PARALLELS the following passage (which provides solid timing-clues, which you have overlooked):
--Luke 12:36-37,38,40-42 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal [G347]
[this is demonstrating the DISTINCTION between "the MARRIAGE" itself (pertaining to the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"), and "the FEAST/SUPPER/MEAL" [i.e. the earthly MK age] (pertaining to "the guests [PLURAL]," and the "10 [or 5] Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]," and the "Servants/Attendants [PLURAL; of that future limited time period (FOLLOWING our Rapture/Departure)], who will all exist in/during/within the TRIB yrs, and who will have come to faith in/during those yrs! (Rev19:7 distinct from Rev19:9, for one example... IOW, the "5 Virgins [PLURAL]" who go in with [G3326 - accompanying] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER are not who He is coming to MARRY! )]
No.
Read the PARALLEL passage to Matthew 24:45-51 [and even starting back at v.42]... this PARALLELS the following passage (which provides solid timing-clues, which you have overlooked):
--Luke 12:36-37,38,40-42 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal [G347]
[this is demonstrating the DISTINCTION between "the MARRIAGE" itself (pertaining to the "Bride/Wife [SINGULAR]"), and "the FEAST/SUPPER/MEAL" [i.e. the earthly MK age] (pertaining to "the guests [PLURAL]," and the "10 [or 5] Virgins/Bridesmaids [PLURAL]," and the "Servants/Attendants [PLURAL; of that future limited time period (FOLLOWING our Rapture/Departure)], who will all exist in/during/within the TRIB yrs, and who will have come to faith in/during those yrs! (Rev19:7 distinct from Rev19:9, for one example... IOW, the "5 Virgins [PLURAL]" who go in with [G3326 - accompanying] Him to the wedding FEAST/SUPPER are not who He is coming to MARRY!
)]^ EDIT... meant to put [as the PARALLEL to your reference of Matt24:45-51 (vv.42-51 even)]:
--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-48 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal [G347]
...rather than ending at v.42 as I had put... (I can tell it's getting late... and my eyes are not seeing the keyboard so well, lol)
--Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-48 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal [G347]
...rather than ending at v.42 as I had put... (I can tell it's getting late... and my eyes are not seeing the keyboard so well, lol)
Ironically the bride is preoccupied with the eminent return.
Even the foolish await.
The rapture is the gathering of the awaiting wise.
So ironic to frame those awaiting as fools....especially since the bible frames the gathering both preflood/ prejudgement,and with no horses,and at peacetime.
Last days deception.
Postribs will, WITHOUT A DOUBT, stay behind to deal with the ac.
Interesting how the Lord let's us choose out fate.
Jesus "...but pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the world and STAND before the son of God"
Postribs ..."ha ha those that pray that are decieved"
Even the foolish await.
The rapture is the gathering of the awaiting wise.
So ironic to frame those awaiting as fools....especially since the bible frames the gathering both preflood/ prejudgement,and with no horses,and at peacetime.
Last days deception.
Postribs will, WITHOUT A DOUBT, stay behind to deal with the ac.
Interesting how the Lord let's us choose out fate.
Jesus "...but pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the world and STAND before the son of God"
Postribs ..."ha ha those that pray that are decieved"
""The early Church fathers and Christians all believed that the Church would suffer at the hands of Antichrist, so that the evil doctrine of a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture was unknown in the Church until the early 1830's when it came into Edward Irving's church through a false prophecy of a young Scottish teenager Margret McDonald""
This is a classic example of no research.
These postribs operate off cliches,work books,and ignoring the pretrib verses.
Low info is somehow your friend?
It is so comical that McDonald was POSTRIB.
Hilarious that you guys never read her . You just March to false info....too funny.
Then you actually belive the church fathers are deity.
Dead men guiding you into some trance that you think voids scripture.
You actually take someone's word to cling to false doctrine instead of scripture exegesis.
Irony of ironies.
You guys even PROCLAIM your doctrine is birthed and maintained by men.
Wow.
This is a classic example of no research.
These postribs operate off cliches,work books,and ignoring the pretrib verses.
Low info is somehow your friend?
It is so comical that McDonald was POSTRIB.
Hilarious that you guys never read her . You just March to false info....too funny.
Then you actually belive the church fathers are deity.
Dead men guiding you into some trance that you think voids scripture.
You actually take someone's word to cling to false doctrine instead of scripture exegesis.
Irony of ironies.
You guys even PROCLAIM your doctrine is birthed and maintained by men.
Wow.
Mat 24:30 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
The sign of the son of man in heaven is Pisces. Jesus returns to start the age of Pisces.
The sign of the son of man in heaven is Pisces. Jesus returns to start the age of Pisces.
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Seems to me that anything but pre-tribulation doctrine would cause men to say the Lord tarries his coming.
I have always been taught and preached to that I needed to be ready because Jesus could come today
All others say Jesus can't come back today they are waiting on.....red heifers in Isreal...antichrist has to set up etc....
Any preaching other than be ready for in a moment that you think not the son of man cometh would cause men to say "the Lord tarries his coming ".....no?
I have always been taught and preached to that I needed to be ready because Jesus could come today
All others say Jesus can't come back today they are waiting on.....red heifers in Isreal...antichrist has to set up etc....
Any preaching other than be ready for in a moment that you think not the son of man cometh would cause men to say "the Lord tarries his coming ".....no?
First of all, the fact that you are asking me "what verse" tells me that you do not have all of the information, but only partial information. Otherwise you would have known what I was talking about when I said that scripture shows the bride/church at the wedding of the Lamb which takes place in heaven and afterwards following the Lord out of heaven. Bellow is the scripture I was referring to in Revelation 19:6-8, 14:
=================================================================
“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him the glory.
For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready.
She was given clothing of fine linen, bright and pure.”
Verse 14 "The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.
=================================================================
Revelation 19:11 thru 21, is a detailed account of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, where He will engage the beast and all those who are gathered at Armageddon.
In verse 7 we have the marriage of the Lamb to His bride/church taking place which is set in heaven.
During the wedding of the Lamb, the bride receives her fine linen, white and clean.
Then in verse 14 we see the armies of heaven following the Lord out of heaven to the earth wearing the fine linen that the bride received and riding on white horses.
The bottom line is that, if the wedding of the Lamb to His bride the church, is taking place in heaven. And the bride is shown following the Lord out of heaven to the earth, then the church/bride would already have to be in heaven.
You and others however, have the church going through God's entire wrath and being gathered from the earth after the Lord returns instead of coming with Him from heaven. We also have the following scriptures which reveal that the resurrected and caught up church will come with the Lord when He returns to the earth to end the age:
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"They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” - Revelation 17:14
"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” - Jude 14
======================================================================
The "called, chosen and faithful followers" will be the bride/church who will have been resurrected, changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air prior to God's wrath. And who will have attended the wedding of the Lamb. These will be those who will follow the Lord out of heaven on white horses and wearing their fine linen, white and clean.
Jude quoting Enoch, also has the Lord coming from heaven with ten thousands of His saints, (literally myriads) which is the same group who will have been resurrected, changed and caught up prior to God's wrath and who will have attended the wedding of the Lamb, the bride/church.
The end of this present age takes place after the God's wrath culminating with the return of the Lord to the earth. This is the end of the age.
The 1000 years is the age that follows after Christ's return to the earth i.e. the millennial kingdom. The time when Satan is locked up and sealed in the Abyss.
=================================================================
“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him the glory.
For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready.
She was given clothing of fine linen, bright and pure.”
Verse 14 "The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.
=================================================================
Revelation 19:11 thru 21, is a detailed account of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, where He will engage the beast and all those who are gathered at Armageddon.
In verse 7 we have the marriage of the Lamb to His bride/church taking place which is set in heaven.
During the wedding of the Lamb, the bride receives her fine linen, white and clean.
Then in verse 14 we see the armies of heaven following the Lord out of heaven to the earth wearing the fine linen that the bride received and riding on white horses.
The bottom line is that, if the wedding of the Lamb to His bride the church, is taking place in heaven. And the bride is shown following the Lord out of heaven to the earth, then the church/bride would already have to be in heaven.
You and others however, have the church going through God's entire wrath and being gathered from the earth after the Lord returns instead of coming with Him from heaven. We also have the following scriptures which reveal that the resurrected and caught up church will come with the Lord when He returns to the earth to end the age:
=====================================================================
"They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” - Revelation 17:14
"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” - Jude 14
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The "called, chosen and faithful followers" will be the bride/church who will have been resurrected, changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air prior to God's wrath. And who will have attended the wedding of the Lamb. These will be those who will follow the Lord out of heaven on white horses and wearing their fine linen, white and clean.
Jude quoting Enoch, also has the Lord coming from heaven with ten thousands of His saints, (literally myriads) which is the same group who will have been resurrected, changed and caught up prior to God's wrath and who will have attended the wedding of the Lamb, the bride/church.
The end of this present age takes place after the God's wrath culminating with the return of the Lord to the earth. This is the end of the age.
The 1000 years is the age that follows after Christ's return to the earth i.e. the millennial kingdom. The time when Satan is locked up and sealed in the Abyss.
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S
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
If they are on the house top and not to go back inside for something and not look back then they are taken to meet the Lord in the air like birds circle when there is a body. The one on the roof top does not get left to eventually be able to just go back in his house for his stuff. Who are these that are Going somewhere that they are not to "turn back" ? Where are they being taken? To be gathered from all corners and be gathered to the lord
If they are on the house top and not to go back inside for something and not look back then they are taken to meet the Lord in the air like birds circle when there is a body. The one on the roof top does not get left to eventually be able to just go back in his house for his stuff. Who are these that are Going somewhere that they are not to "turn back" ? Where are they being taken? To be gathered from all corners and be gathered to the lord
This is what apostle preach on his letter to Thessalonians
2 thes 2
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be Go
Concerning the coming of the Lord and rapture........will not come until......man of lawlessness/ antichrist is revealed
2 thes 2
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be Go
Concerning the coming of the Lord and rapture........will not come until......man of lawlessness/ antichrist is revealed