Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?
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One view I've heard about the one who restrains is that Greek grammar doesn't allow it to be church who is taking out of way if this is true then there's really only one other thing that restrains and that's gods word could it be the falling away from the truth of it. Just my conjecture food for thought.
I disagree.
I made a post related to that some time back.
If I'm not mistaken, the text uses both the "neuter" (v.6) and the "masculine" (v.7), right?
--[v.6] "what withholdeth [neuter]" (v.6) would be the present standing of the Church which is His body [that is, here on the earth]
(I see this as parallel to the wording in Heb9:8-9a "By this the Holy Spirit was signifying that the way into the holy places has not yet been made manifest, the first tabernacle [the one in the wilderness per the "furnishings" in v.4] yet/still having A STANDING [G4714 - stasis/stasin], which is a symbol [/PARABLE] for the present time..." [and this "stasis/stasin" word RELATED to what v.3 is speaking of, in 2Th2:3])
--[v.7] "he who/the one who [masculine] is restraining [masculine] at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [/come to be], AND THEN [kai tote]..." (v.7)
- I see this as parallel with the phrases pertaining to "the Holy Spirit [neuter]," but a different phrase re: Him, where He is called "the Comforter/Advocate/Helper/paraklétos [G3875 - masculine]" (John 14-16 [4x]) ; as well as I see in the phrase "[create in Himself into] ONE NEW MAN [masculine]"... and my view is also that "the male [G730 - arsena/arren - masculine]" (Rev12:13; no "child" word in this verse) also refers to SAME [same entity], as I see it... so these BOTH (the HS as "Comforter" and "the Church which is His body"), in these ways, would "fit the criteria" of this verse (grammar-wise)
I made a post related to that some time back.
If I'm not mistaken, the text uses both the "neuter" (v.6) and the "masculine" (v.7), right?
--[v.6] "what withholdeth [neuter]" (v.6) would be the present standing of the Church which is His body [that is, here on the earth]
(I see this as parallel to the wording in Heb9:8-9a "By this the Holy Spirit was signifying that the way into the holy places has not yet been made manifest, the first tabernacle [the one in the wilderness per the "furnishings" in v.4] yet/still having A STANDING [G4714 - stasis/stasin], which is a symbol [/PARABLE] for the present time..." [and this "stasis/stasin" word RELATED to what v.3 is speaking of, in 2Th2:3])
--[v.7] "he who/the one who [masculine] is restraining [masculine] at present, will restrain, UNTIL out of the midst he be come [/come to be], AND THEN [kai tote]..." (v.7)
- I see this as parallel with the phrases pertaining to "the Holy Spirit [neuter]," but a different phrase re: Him, where He is called "the Comforter/Advocate/Helper/paraklétos [G3875 - masculine]" (John 14-16 [4x]) ; as well as I see in the phrase "[create in Himself into] ONE NEW MAN [masculine]"... and my view is also that "the male [G730 - arsena/arren - masculine]" (Rev12:13; no "child" word in this verse) also refers to SAME [same entity], as I see it... so these BOTH (the HS as "Comforter" and "the Church which is His body"), in these ways, would "fit the criteria" of this verse (grammar-wise)
@Nebuchadnezzer ,
consider that they may have been thinking of the following verses:
1Jn3:15b - "[...] and you know that any murderer does not have eternal life abiding in him."
1Jn5:20b - "[re: Jesus] He is the true God and eternal life."
John 14:6 - "...I AM the way, the truth, and THE LIFE..."
1Jn4:16 - "And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."
[... and possibly "...which is, Christ in you [plural], the [sure] hope of glory"... Col1:27; as well as possibly "Or do you not recognize yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you [plural], unless you are unapproved?" 1Cor13:5; and maybe they even refer to 1Cor12:12 - "For, even as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the one body, being many, are one body, so also is the Christ"]
consider that they may have been thinking of the following verses:
1Jn3:15b - "[...] and you know that any murderer does not have eternal life abiding in him."
1Jn5:20b - "[re: Jesus] He is the true God and eternal life."
John 14:6 - "...I AM the way, the truth, and THE LIFE..."
1Jn4:16 - "And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."
[... and possibly "...which is, Christ in you [plural], the [sure] hope of glory"... Col1:27; as well as possibly "Or do you not recognize yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you [plural], unless you are unapproved?" 1Cor13:5; and maybe they even refer to 1Cor12:12 - "For, even as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the one body, being many, are one body, so also is the Christ"]
...oops, I forgot to add this part (to THAT ^ point):
[re: "neuter"]
"one body many members" (all neuter) - Rom12:4
"one body, members" (neuter) - v.5
"one body" (neuter) - 1Cor12:13
"many members, yet but one body" (all neuter) - 1Cor12:20
"[...in] one body [to God]" (neuter) - Eph2:16
"joint-heirs... a joint-body... joint-partakers [...in Christ Jesus]" (all neuter) - Eph3:6
[all referring to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY [neuter]" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence] ; Col1:18 "[head] of THE BODY [neuter] [the Church]" )]
[re: "neuter"]
"one body many members" (all neuter) - Rom12:4
"one body, members" (neuter) - v.5
"one body" (neuter) - 1Cor12:13
"many members, yet but one body" (all neuter) - 1Cor12:20
"[...in] one body [to God]" (neuter) - Eph2:16
"joint-heirs... a joint-body... joint-partakers [...in Christ Jesus]" (all neuter) - Eph3:6
[all referring to "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY [neuter]" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN [as to its existence] ; Col1:18 "[head] of THE BODY [neuter] [the Church]" )]
The tribulation saints are part of the bride of Christ Yeshua. Christ Yeshua's marriage supper is with the whole of his bride at the end of the great tribulation (Christ Yeshua does not have a marriage supper with half a bride, excluding the tribulation saints, before the great tribulation).
Of course the rapture of God's elect Christians (from the last generation) with the first resurrected risen dead in Christ, at the end of the great tribulation, at the destruction of the anti-christ beast and false prophet, before the millennial reign, is the gathering of the bride for the marriage supper at the commencement of Christ Yeshua's millennial reign with his bride on earth.
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
The Great Tribulation
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree
No One Knows the Day or Hour
38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming.
1 Thessalonians 4 (New King James Version)
Plea for Purity
A Brotherly and Orderly Life
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Revelation 18 (New King James Version)
The Fall of Babylon the Great
The World Mourns Babylon’s Fall
20“Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you [j]holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!”
Finality of Babylon’s Fall
24And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”
Revelation 19 (New King James Version)
Heaven Exults over Babylon
1After these things I [a]heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 7Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called (as you rightly say, after the great tribulation, at the rapture accompanying Christ Yeshua's return from heaven to meet the raptured in the clouds of earth, the marriage supper follows the immediate destruction of the rest of those left on earth and not raptured) to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.”
Christ on a White Horse
14And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
The Beast and His Armies Defeated
19And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
Satan Bound 1,000 Years
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Of course the rapture of God's elect Christians (from the last generation) with the first resurrected risen dead in Christ, at the end of the great tribulation, at the destruction of the anti-christ beast and false prophet, before the millennial reign, is the gathering of the bride for the marriage supper at the commencement of Christ Yeshua's millennial reign with his bride on earth.
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple
The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
The Great Tribulation
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Parable of the Fig Tree
No One Knows the Day or Hour
38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming.
1 Thessalonians 4 (New King James Version)
Plea for Purity
A Brotherly and Orderly Life
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Revelation 18 (New King James Version)
The Fall of Babylon the Great
The World Mourns Babylon’s Fall
20“Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you [j]holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!”
Finality of Babylon’s Fall
24And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”
Revelation 19 (New King James Version)
Heaven Exults over Babylon
1After these things I [a]heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 7Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called (as you rightly say, after the great tribulation, at the rapture accompanying Christ Yeshua's return from heaven to meet the raptured in the clouds of earth, the marriage supper follows the immediate destruction of the rest of those left on earth and not raptured) to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.”
Christ on a White Horse
14And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
The Beast and His Armies Defeated
19And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
Satan Bound 1,000 Years
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
It is not God's elect Christians that are left behind for God's destruction. Christ Yeshua's bride, the elect Christians with the resurrected Christians who died in Christ, are raptured after the great tribulation for the marriage supper of all God's elect Christians with Christ Yeshua the bridegroom. Christ Yeshua with his armies defeat those who is left behind on earth in the rapture of his bride. Thereafter Christ Yeshua with his bride inhabits the earth for the millenium kingdom.
All believers are carnal believers, and none is without sin - but we repent again and again and know the price has been paid by the blood of our bridegroom, the lamb, Christ Yeshua.
1 John 1 (New King James Version)
6If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1 (New King James Version)
6If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
No one would be able to come to God, nor remain in God without the presence in the great tribulation of God's word. God's elect Christian believers position of power however are out of the way, as any power to be reckoned with by the world - and they are left without world political power after being defeated by the anti-christ as well. But for now God's elect Christian believers still have world political power before the critical mass of the great apostasy is reached.
The ISR translation, translates "out of the way" with "out of the midst", alluding that the anti-christ restrains himself before coming out of the midst, waiting until the time is right for him to bring about his lawless ways and timing his revealing, only after God's elect Christians looses all significant worldly political power, because of their dwindling numbers, following the great apostasy.
2 Thessalonians 2 (ISR 1998)
7For the secret of lawlessness is already at work – only until he who now restrains comes out of the midst.
2 Thessalonians 2 (ISR 1998)
7For the secret of lawlessness is already at work – only until he who now restrains comes out of the midst.
Yes, those falling away's names are not written, before the foundation of the world, in the Book of Life of the Lamb that was slain.
The anti-christ overpowers God's elect Christians here on earth, for only 3.5 years of the entire duration of world history, before he and is followers is destroyed after the great tribulation, just after God's elect Christians with the resurrected Christians who died in Christ is raptured (just before this final destruction by Christ Yeshua and his armies).
The anti-christ overpowers God's elect Christians here on earth, for only 3.5 years of the entire duration of world history, before he and is followers is destroyed after the great tribulation, just after God's elect Christians with the resurrected Christians who died in Christ is raptured (just before this final destruction by Christ Yeshua and his armies).
Yes, those falling away's names are not written, before the foundation of the world, in the Book of Life of the Lamb that was slain.
The anti-christ overpowers God's elect Christians here on earth, for only 3.5 years of the entire duration of world history, before he and is followers is destroyed after the great tribulation, just after God's elect Christians with the resurrected Christians who died in Christ is raptured (just before this final destruction by Christ Yeshua and his armies).
Prepare yourself to be willing to loose this earthly life for the King IF that is your destiny as written in God's Book of Life, before the foundation of the world. And pray that you may escape persecution during the great tribulation, if that is the will of God.
Revelation 13 (English Standard Version )
10If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
Matthew 24 (English Standard Version)
20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
Luke 21 (English Standard Version)
36But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Revelation 3 (English Standard Version)
10Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
The anti-christ overpowers God's elect Christians here on earth, for only 3.5 years of the entire duration of world history, before he and is followers is destroyed after the great tribulation, just after God's elect Christians with the resurrected Christians who died in Christ is raptured (just before this final destruction by Christ Yeshua and his armies).
Prepare yourself to be willing to loose this earthly life for the King IF that is your destiny as written in God's Book of Life, before the foundation of the world. And pray that you may escape persecution during the great tribulation, if that is the will of God.
Revelation 13 (English Standard Version )
10If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
Matthew 24 (English Standard Version)
20Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
Luke 21 (English Standard Version)
36But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Revelation 3 (English Standard Version)
10Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
Rom. 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh and controlled by its unholy desires, set their minds on and pursue those things which gratify the flesh. But those who are according to the spirit and controlled by the desires of the spirit, set their minds on and seek those things which gratify the holy spirit. 6 Now the mind of the flesh ( which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit) is death- death that comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter. But the mind of the Holy Spirit is life and soul- peace both now and forever. 7 That is because the mind of the flesh - with its carnal thoughts and purposes- is hostile to God; for it does not submit itself to God's law, indeed it cannot. 8 So then those who are living the life of flesh- catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature- cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to him. That's self explanatory and exposes your misconception.
We are sanctification to be holy which is a process ridding us from our carnal desires and sin, to be completed at the return of Christ Yeshua, and the establishment of his millennial kingdom, at our rapture immediately following God's elect Christian's persecution by the anti-christ during great tribulation. The desire not to face persecution for Christ during the great tribulation is a carnal sin, loving this body more than the resurrected eternal life body that will dwell eternally physically as well as spiritually with God and Christ Yeshua.
Are you saying you are already completely without sin, without any carnal desires in you?
Are you saying you are already completely without sin, without any carnal desires in you?