How many beleive we are in the Tribulation period now and why

[iamsoandso]

One thing we know is that the book of Revelation is all about the unsealing a book. The only book that was sealed as far as I can tell, was the Old Testament. The Old Testament can't be understood without the New Testament.

It could be that the first part of Revelation, up until chapter 7 is about the past and the other parts are future. I don't think that is case, but it could be.

Yes there are several things I would say about this. One is that in Daniel 8:26 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/8-26.htm Daniel is shown an vision of the evenings and the mornings(in Judaism this is a reference to the evenings and morning concluding the seven days of creation because they see it as as reference to Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:4) which they see/saw as a prophecy of seven days(aeons) of the heaven and earth and he is also told it is to be sealed.

In Daniel 9:24 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/9-24.htm he is told that it was "to seal up the vision an prophecy" but he's not being told to seal it but rather what would happen was to "seal up vision and prophecy" So it's meaning that the events spoken of would "seal up vision and prophecy" but probably it does not mean that he is meaning "it is sealed" as in the other places in Daniel because if so then it would be an event after the NC because in the NC they will https://biblehub.com/joel/2-28.htm and https://biblehub.com/acts/2-17.htm and Revelation(and the entire NT) are filled with visions and prophecies.

In Daniel 10:14 Daniel is told that the angel is come to him to make him "understand" what will happen to his people(Daniels) in the "latter days" that is he is being told the kingdoms that will rule over them(Daniels people) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/10-14.htm so the things told to him about this after this point(of that vision) were explained to him and not sealed. Then following to chapter 11 and 12 the angel explains this but in Daniel 12:4 Daniel is told to shut up the book and seal it. Then in Daniel 12:5 Daniel sees a vision of two men(separate vision?) and in Daniel 12:8 that he heard this but did not understand so he ask in verse 8 but was told in verse 9 the words were closed up and sealed https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/12.htm

Now in Revelation 5 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5.htm there is a sealed scroll. In Rev. 5:1-4 no one is found that can open the scroll or see it. Then in Rev. 5:9 there's a new song because the lamb can take it,open it and see it because he "was slain"(repeated in verse 12) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5.htm

Then so in Daniel he saw visions and some were explained to him and also saw visions that were sealed and he did not understand. In Matthew 24:3 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-3.htm the disciples are asking the same question as was ask in Daniel 12,how long,when,a sign,end of age ect. and Jesus told them none knew except the Father(notice the OD took place before he was slain. This is why I ask you about Revelation 6-7 in our last few post because the GT is after he is slain and opens the seals and after Revelation 17's seventh head, and the ten horns/kings come and the beast that was,was not yet is rises from the pit.

 

[Yahshua]

None of the things listed in the decree of seventy seven year periods stated in Daniel 9:24 has been fulfilled

But then (Yah forbid) the Almighty is a LIAR. Don't you see what I mean, Ahwatukee? "Let God be true and every man a liar."

We can't add a pause to the Word the King has spoken, unless He decrees it be paused. Daniel asked for Judah to be forgiven and to reverse the desolation, after studying from Jeremiah that it would last 70 years.


Daniel 9:2-3,18,19
In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:

18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations...19 forgive...


Letting scripture define its terms, desolations = the exile of the rightful people from the holy land.

Daniel prayed for the exile to be reversed...but the Almighty sent Gabriel to explain that it's 490 years (broken into several intervals/events) leading to further desolations (i.e. exile) that will last until the end.

Daniel 9:27 (partial)
...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Again, based on Daniel's prayer "desolation" means "holy land emptied of Daniel's people". So the 490 year prophecy would END with Jerusalems destruction and Judah being kicked from the land...and they would remain in exile until the consummation. The consummation is at the end of the age.

* Israel's transgressions are still on-going

But that's not Israel in the land.

* Israel is still committing sins

It isn't Israel in the land.

* That have yet to recognize the One who made atonement for them for their sins

Gabriel didn't say the people had to recognize the atonement work, just that atonement would be made. Book of Hebrews.

* Everlasting righteousness has not yet been brought in

But that's exactly what the everlasting covenant is, established at the last supper.

* Visions and prophesies have not been completed in order to seal them up

Yes. All visions and prophecies pointed to Christ.

* The Most Holy Place has not yet been anointed

The book of Hebrews explains this is exactly what the Messiah was/is doing with His blood in the more perfect tabernacle of heaven.

----

Everything that was to take place in the 490 allotted years (broken into groups of seven years) happened and its confirmed by scripture. If everything was completed how is there any time left?

I now realize that the root of our disagreement is that there are people in the land that call themselves "Israel". But bless their hearts they're not Israel. Let the Almighty be true and every man a liar.

Consider the following as well .......

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ i he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple j he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. ”

From the beginning of the prophecy, Gabriel explains that there are certain years allotted for specific events. Remember that we confirmed above from verses 2-3 and 18 that this is a countdown. That's the context and pattern. In a certain set of 7 years, something will happen until all 490 years past and then desolation (exile).

The verse doesn't mean, "he will confirm a covenant for a length of 7 years". Rather, it means, "for one set, the event is he will confirm a covenant with many", it's just worded differently.

- For 7 'sevens'...the event is...

- For 62 'sevens'...the event is...

- After 62 'sevens'...the event is...

- For 1 'seven'...the event is...

- In the middle of the 'seven'...the event is...

- then the desolation/exile until the end

...the covenant confirmed is the same as the everlasting righteousness that was to be brought in. It's the new covenant. The "He" who confirms the covenant is the Messiah. And in 3.5 years (middle of the 'seven') He was cut off. And for the overspeading of abominations He, the Messiah himself, makes it desolate.

Matthew 23:37-39
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

39 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Your error is the assumption that the martyr's shown under the altar at the 6th seal are Jesus original disciples. There is no scripture that would support these under the altar as being the disciples of the first century.

But He's talking to his disciples since they're the ones who asked him the questions. He tells them they will be killed before Jerusalem is destroyed.

Matthew 24:5-9
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake

Revelation 6:
- Antichrist
- War
- Famine
- Death (pestilence)
- Martyrdom

 

[KJV1611]

Yes there are several things I would say about this. One is that in Daniel 8:26 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/8-26.htm Daniel is shown an vision of the evenings and the mornings(in Judaism this is a reference to the evenings and morning concluding the seven days of creation because they see it as as reference to Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:4) which they see/saw as a prophecy of seven days(aeons) of the heaven and earth and he is also told it is to be sealed.

In Daniel 9:24 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/9-24.htm he is told that it was "to seal up the vision an prophecy" but he's not being told to seal it but rather what would happen was to "seal up vision and prophecy" So it's meaning that the events spoken of would "seal up vision and prophecy" but probably it does not mean that he is meaning "it is sealed" as in the other places in Daniel because if so then it would be an event after the NC because in the NC they will https://biblehub.com/joel/2-28.htm and https://biblehub.com/acts/2-17.htm and Revelation(and the entire NT) are filled with visions and prophecies.

I believe it means that all OT prophecy about Jesus and Jerusalem would be fulfilled.

In Daniel 10:14 Daniel is told that the angel is come to him to make him "understand" what will happen to his people(Daniels) in the "latter days" that is he is being told the kingdoms that will rule over them(Daniels people) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/10-14.htm so the things told to him about this after this point(of that vision) were explained to him and not sealed. Then following to chapter 11 and 12 the angel explains this but in Daniel 12:4 Daniel is told to shut up the book and seal it. Then in Daniel 12:5 Daniel sees a vision of two men(separate vision?) and in Daniel 12:8 that he heard this but did not understand so he ask in verse 8 but was told in verse 9 the words were closed up and sealed https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/12.htm

I agree.

Now in Revelation 5 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5.htm there is a sealed scroll. In Rev. 5:1-4 no one is found that can open the scroll or see it. Then in Rev. 5:9 there's a new song because the lamb can take it,open it and see it because he "was slain"(repeated in verse 12) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/5.htm

That brings up the question where was Jesus if he wasn't in heaven, on the earth nor under the earth. The answer was he was on the earth but not yet crucified. He wasn't able to open the book until AFTER the cross. Chapter 5 starts with Jesus on the earth pre-cross or on the cross but still alive and ends with him appearing in heaven after the crucifixion.

Then so in Daniel he saw visions and some were explained to him and also saw visions that were sealed and he did not understand. In Matthew 24:3 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-3.htm the disciples are asking the same question as was ask in Daniel 12,how long,when,a sign,end of age ect. and Jesus told them none knew except the Father(notice the OD took place before he was slain. This is why I ask you about Revelation 6-7 in our last few post because the GT is after he is slain and opens the seals and after Revelation 17's seventh head, and the ten horns/kings come and the beast that was,was not yet is rises from the pit.

I'm still working on the the beasts. As of now I don't understand much about it but I feel like it's already happened.

 

[iamsoandso]

I believe it means that all OT prophecy about Jesus and Jerusalem would be fulfilled.

In Rev. 5:1-4 John sees this and begins to weep but in verse 5 one of the elders ask him why he's weeping and then explains to him that it had been opened(why are you crying John?) then afterward it states the reason why it can be opened(lamb had been slain). So it seems to be saying that John saw this and was weeping because (he) didn't understand something and so the elder explained it to him. (that the lamb that was slain was found worthy to open it prior to the vision).

When the seals are opened do they apply to the beast only? Some of the things mentioned in the seals as they are opened apply to those sealed with Gods mark in their forehead and those who the beast kills because they wont worship the image. And it contains things that happen to the beast. In Revelation 6 the GT (had not taken place yet) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 6&version=KJV (when the 5th seal is opened)... Then in Revelation 7 those in white robes(remember my former post about this) are identified as those who came out of the tribulation great (after the 5th,during the 6th,before the 7th)...

 

[Budman]

No. But I think the Rapture is very near.

 

[KJV1611]

In Rev. 5:1-4 John sees this and begins to weep but in verse 5 one of the elders ask him why he's weeping and then explains to him that it had been opened(why are you crying John?) then afterward it states the reason why it can be opened(lamb had been slain). So it seems to be saying that John saw this and was weeping because (he) didn't understand something and so the elder explained it to him. (that the lamb that was slain was found worthy to open it prior to the vision).

When the seals are opened do they apply to the beast only? Some of the things mentioned in the seals as they are opened apply to those sealed with Gods mark in their forehead and those who the beast kills because they wont worship the image. And it contains things that happen to the beast. In Revelation 6 the GT (had not taken place yet) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation 6&version=KJV (when the 5th seal is opened)... Then in Revelation 7 those in white robes(remember my former post about this) are identified as those who came out of the tribulation great (after the 5th,during the 6th,before the 7th)...

The seals cryptic and written in such a way as to conceal things. The seven seals are attributes of Christ. For example verse 6 has nothing to do with famine or violence.

Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine

A penny is a days work. Christ paid for our sins in one day. The things PURCHASED are grain. Paul tells us that BARE GRAIN is our souls. Wheat is saved Jews - a measure. Barley is the gentiles THREE measures.

None of Revelation can be understood by looking for violence and "The Antichrist" not saying that a SMALL portion may be about that, but the bulk of Revelation is about Christ and his people. Remember, Revelation is written in cryptic language to conceal the truth.

 

[iamsoandso]

The seals cryptic and written in such a way as to conceal things. The seven seals are attributes of Christ. For example verse 6 has nothing to do with famine or violence.

Rev 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine

A penny is a days work. Christ paid for our sins in one day. The things PURCHASED are grain. Paul tells us that BARE GRAIN is our souls. Wheat is saved Jews - a measure. Barley is the gentiles THREE measures.

None of Revelation can be understood by looking for violence and "The Antichrist" not saying that a SMALL portion may be about that, but the bulk of Revelation is about Christ and his people. Remember, Revelation is written in cryptic language to conceal the truth.

That would be a bit of an misnomer, "cryptic Revelation" in that it's name projects revealing something but instead it was hidden by being given in an cryptic code. I notice from speaking with different people over the years that when this anti-Christ(I prefer MoS/SoP) comes up some, because it is puzzling tend to look at it figurative/spiritual. I have to ponder their reasoning in doing this though because I notice that those who do apply figurative,spiritual explanations to this have different figurative,spiritual definitions of this code that their breaking.

Years ago I thought to myself that it was rather difficult to find a solid ground to discuss the Revelation with them on because one would say it figuratively or spiritually meant one thing but if I ask another who sees to do this about the same Scripture they would see it F/S the same, but it would mean something different than the other one said.

At that time I thought that I should just agree and begin doing the same and so I would say things like "yes Peter and Paul were not literally killed it was F/S" but then they would say "no they were literally killed". And so then I went farther back and agreed and said "Jesus was not literally killed it was F/S" with the same results they corrected me and said he literally suffered and was killed on the Cross.

Then I went to the siege/destruction of Jerusalem and said it was F/S and was corrected by them. After that I would just jump around and use other prophecies and fulfillment's. I would say that Sodom and Gomorrah was not literal and they would correct me. If I used Babylon,MP or Greece they said "no it literately happened like the prophecy said". I tried Egypt and the plagues,the Red Sea parting and they said they literally happened. If I tried to move away from Abraham literally coming out of UR or the Flood and Noah every time I did they would tell me that God said in prophecy these things would happen and they literally did take place.

I cannot find anything from this MoS backward that people do not agree as literally being prophesied and fulfilled, but beginning at the Man of Sin(aka/AC) for one reason or another it is not suppose to literally be fulfilled in the same manner as every prophecy from the beginning of the Bible has. I suppose it's human nature to explain something with an flexible type of answer rather than accepting that we don't know something.

Anyway though this MoS(aka AC) since you mention him lets examine if he/this is cryptic,figurative,spiritual ect. or if he is literal. I'll just provide one Scripture and we can read above and below it for the rest https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13-15.htm

So then now lets see if we can see him as not literal. In the Scripture it says he would kill those who do not worship the image. Now if those who don't worship the image are killed then they were not "spiritually dead" and were not deceived. The others who did worship the image were deceived and are spiritually dead. So how can we convince this beast that he is not suppose to literally kill those who don't worship the image? This is the problem in that you cannot spiritually kill someone who is not deceived and so the only way left that he can kill them is literal(physical death/killing) so when this Scripture is fulfilled is it literal the same as the other prophecies in the past?

 

[Child0fYAHUAH]

I think the 1st seal has been opened. The white horse rider goes forth conquering & to conquer.
He is given a crown & has a bow but no arrows. This is symbolic of a world takeover in the name of peace & safety.
White horse rider= peace Bow with no arrows= Power but not used The entire world has been subdued w/o a battle.
Entire economies being destroyed. Food crops around the world being destroyed either by a 4 continent plague of locusts,
of biblical proportions or by the owners who have no one to sell them to. The birth pangs have begun, the time of sorrows has begun.
the first 5 seals have to do with man & satan's control. The GREAT TRIBULATION/GOD'S WRATH begins with the 6th seal. From that point forward HIS Angels bring down HIS WRATH.

 

[Child0fYAHUAH]

Not trying to minimize the horror of WW1 or WW2 but they did not involve the ENTIRE world. What is happening now does involve the ENTIRE world. It has effected the entire world in one way or another. There has never been anything since the flood of this proportion.
Almost all freedoms & rights have been taken away. Entire economies destroyed. This is the beginning of Sorrows. 1st seal opened. Next will be war, the famine, then pestilences. They all go hand in hand & will come in rapid succession.
One World Government=UN One world Religion=Roman Catholicism. Welcome to the Hew World Order

 

[UCA4J]

has anyone read the book by stephen m miller, the complete visual bible?
well there is a tribulation image for revelation 19.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I think the 1st seal has been opened. The white horse rider goes forth conquering & to conquer.
He is given a crown & has a bow but no arrows. This is symbolic of a world takeover in the name of peace & safety.
White horse rider= peace Bow with no arrows= Power but not used The entire world has been subdued w/o a battle.
Entire economies being destroyed. Food crops around the world being destroyed either by a 4 continent plague of locusts,
of biblical proportions or by the owners who have no one to sell them to. The birth pangs have begun, the time of sorrows has begun.
the first 5 seals have to do with man & satan's control. The GREAT TRIBULATION/GOD'S WRATH begins with the 6th seal. From that point forward HIS Angels bring down HIS WRATH.

Good day, Child0fYAHSUAH!

First of all, the first seal rider on the white horse symbolically represents the antichrist. He is a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19 who is the Lord.

All of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments make up God's wrath. The words "the great day of their wrath has come and who can endure it," includes all of the previous seals as well as the trumpets and bowls that follow. In support of this, the Lamb/Jesus is the One who is opening the seals, which results in many fatalities. With just the 4th seal alone a fourth of the earths population will be killed during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period.

This false teaching that God's wrath only begins after the opening of the 6th seal is a result of the interpretation of the words 'has come,' which they have interpreted as God's wrath as beginning after that announcement, which again is false. They claim this in order to support their belief and teaching of the church being on the earth during the first six seals. The words 'has come' encompass God's wrath in its entirety, seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

Food crops around the world being destroyed either by a 4 continent plague of locusts

There is no scriptural support in Revelation that the world-wide famine is caused by locusts. And if you are referring to the locusts mentioned at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, those are demonic beings who will be released from the Abyss, who will resemble locusts. However, they are also described as having faces like human faces, teeth like lions teeth, hair like women's hair, as well as like horse prepared for battle. Needless to say, these are not your garden variety locusts

the first 5 seals have to do with man & Satan's control.

The first 5 seals will neither be man's nor Satan's doing, but will be apart of God's wrath, The Day of the Lord. The Lamb/Jesus is the One who is opening the seals and is therefore responsible for the devastation and fatalities of not only all of the seals, but the trumpets and bowls as well.

 

[Ultimateprepper]

What do you think?

I think we are in beginning of sorrows but as for Time referring to The Great Tribulation it could be in our lifetimes do we not live in age of decadence. All eyes on Israel because they are at epicenter of prophecy and are they not hated of all nations or at least all the Islam nations that surround them. Another interesting thing is that the saviour of Islam sounds alot like man of sin described in revelation so I've heard some pastors say. All we can do is keep walking in the Spirit and watch the prophecies unfold.

 

[UCA4J]

I don't think we are even close to the end times, yet. Disagree all you like.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I don't think we are even close to the end times, yet. Disagree all you like.

Maybe the following will convince you:

I Put A Payment Chip In My Hand To Replace My Wallet - Bing video

Why human microchipping is so popular in Sweden | ITV News - Bing video

"He also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."

If this mark of the beast technology is already here and evolving, then we are living in the last generation.

 

[UCA4J]

Maybe the following will convince you:

I Put A Payment Chip In My Hand To Replace My Wallet - Bing video

Why human microchipping is so popular in Sweden | ITV News - Bing video

"He also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name."

If this mark of the beast technology is already here and evolving, then we are living in the last generation.

the gospel has to be preached to all people before the end times can start, as stated in Matt 24.

 

[notuptome]

the gospel has to be preached to all people before the end times can start, as stated in Matt 24.

Can you name a place where it has not been preached?

Those who possess the gospel are still proclaiming it to all who will hear.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ahwatukee]

the gospel has to be preached to all people before the end times can start, as stated in Matt 24.

The word of God does not state that the gospel has to be preached before the end times can start. It says that this gospel will be preached in all the world and then the end will come, i.e. when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. This is done in part in the following manner:

"Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

The fact is, the videos that I sent you check all of the boxes for that coming mark. This technology will continue to evolve in preparation for the revealing of the antichrist. That fact that we can see this being set up tells us that we are living in the last generation.

 

[Ultimateprepper]

I think we are in beginning of sorrows but as for Time referring to The Great Tribulation it could be in our lifetimes do we not live in age of decadence. All eyes on Israel because they are at epicenter of prophecy and are they not hated of all nations or at least all the Islam nations that surround them. Another interesting thing is that the saviour of Islam sounds alot like man of sin described in revelation so I've heard some pastors say. All we can do is keep walking in the Spirit and watch the prophecies unfold.

Can you name a place where it has not been preached?

Those who possess the gospel are still proclaiming it to all who will hear.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes the gospel is preached worldwide but there are still many languages the bible has not been translated to.

 

[UCA4J]

The word of God does not state that the gospel has to be preached before the end times can start. It says that this gospel will be preached in all the world and then the end will come, i.e. when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. This is done in part in the following manner:

"Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

The fact is, the videos that I sent you check all of the boxes for that coming mark. This technology will continue to evolve in preparation for the revealing of the antichrist. That fact that we can see this being set up tells us that we are living in the last generation.

Well yes, of course.

 

[UCA4J]

Can you name a place where it has not been preached?

Those who possess the gospel are still proclaiming it to all who will hear.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Can i name a place ? Well I don't know every single millimetre in the world, so there must be somewhere it hasn't been preached; what about somewhere in Africa or Asia ?