The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#181
Jul 8, 2018
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#181
Corban said:
A strange argument. I didn't use the word "world". Scripture did. The word is "kosmos" in the Greek. It's literal translation is "the adornment", or "the orderly arrangement of things" You have to decide on its connotation. You tell me now about,

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world (kosmos), that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

1 John 2:15
"Love not the world (kosmos), neither the things that are in the world (kosmos). If any man love the world (kosmos), the love of the Father is not in him."
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Thayer's definition also says the word in both verses is 2889 Kosmos, but is used differently in John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. and is to be used of believers only.
1 John 2:15 is not included as being believers only, but is used as the adorning world.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#182
Jul 8, 2018
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#182
pottersclay said:
I see where your coming from but you have a distorted view on the subject. It is very complex it wasn't just the death of Christ but the very offering . Let's start with Christ own words.
He said " no man takes my life but I lay it down" now let's build from there.
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Jesus's sacrifice was an offering, but it was offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to man, for man's acceptance.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#183
#183
Grandpa said:
Christ died to bring His People to Him and give them Salvation.

Atheists are included.

There are many atheists who have come to Christ and been FORGIVEN of their UNBELIEF.

Christs' sacrifice is sufficient for ALL SINS.


In fact, faith is one of the fruit of the Spirit.

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
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We were all atheists at one time

if we remain in that state and die in that state,we have rejected the call of God and will spend eternity dead

receiving the gospel n faith is what justifies us, and being justified we who were dead are made alive
 
Corban

Corban

Banned
#184
Jun 11, 2020
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#184
ForestGreenCook said:
Thayer's definition also says the word in both verses is 2889 Kosmos, but is used differently in John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. and is to be used of believers only.
1 John 2:15 is not included as being believers only, but is used as the adorning world.
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Aaahhh! I think we draw closer to an agreement. "Used differently" is great. So, in my example, the usage in my first verse means that God loves His creation - the "adornment" of stars and planets and their governing laws. Since Adam's rebellion and Abel's murder, it lies under curse. Shedding of innocent blood, sexual sins and idolatry pollute the earth. God wants to redeem it from the curse. This is realized in Jesus Christ whose blood "speaketh better things that that of Abel." Abel's blood cried from the ground for vengeance, and a just God must answer. Jesus' blood IS THAT VENGEANCE and so God can judicially restore the kosmos.

In the second example from 1st John the "world" is still the "adornment" but it speaks of how things are arranged under Gentile government and Satan's instigation. It is an "adornment" of human government, like when He stood before Pilate and said that His Kingdom was not of this "world". It was the "arrangement" of Gentile Occult Theocratic government that did not constitute His "arrangement" of things. And the system of Satan is, (i) the lust of the eyes (advertising & marketing), (ii) the lust of the flesh (sexual sins and socialism where you get paid to do nothing), and (iii) the pride of life - being famous is better than wealth. This is the "arrangement of things" now.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#186
Nov 21, 2020
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#186
eternally-gratefull said:
then he is not a loving God, he is a God who does exactly what Satan said, and picks and choses, and prety much forces a group of the guilty by forcing them to be saved, while refusing to allow the other guilty to even have the opportunity to be saved,

yeah you can have that God.
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He loves them He saved.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#187
Nov 21, 2020
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#187
ForestGreenCook said:
Respectfully, I would like to correct you.

Christ, did indeed, die for the lost, his elect. His sheep, even after they have been born again, can be lost from not having a knowledge of God's righteousness, Rom 10:2, For I bear them record that they have a "zeal" of God, but not according to knowledge. Whom shall he teach knowledge? and to whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.(his sheep that are babes in Christ), For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little. Isaiah 28:9-10.
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I don't agree with this post. Christ death effects Salvation, Eternal Salvation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#191
#191
brightfame52 said:
I don't know what you talking about. You coming out of left field.
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If they are going to be saved with no choice in doing it, and no chance of rejecting, they are basically forced
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#192
May 17, 2013
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#192
ForestGreenCook said:
God's elect people are represented by Jacob surname Israel,Rom 9:11, which is made up to include every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. All Israel is not of Israel, Rom 9:6.

Jesus's sacrifice was to God, for God's acceptance, nad not to man, for man's acceptance.

God does according to his will and has his way among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand, Dan 4:35.
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The covenant with Abraham included far more folks than the covenant with Jacob. Israel is the chosen or elect nation among all the nations. Chosen to receive the word of God and give it to the nations round about them.

Man must submit to Gods will in order to be saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#194
May 24, 2014
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#194
ForestGreenCook said:
Jesus's sacrifice was an offering, but it was offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to man, for man's acceptance.
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Jesus is God. The offering was for all men, but not all men will accept it or profit from it. This is not oyster's opinion. This is the Gospel Truth.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#195
Nov 21, 2020
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#195
oyster67 said:
Jesus is God. The offering was for all men, but not all men will accept it or profit from it. This is not oyster's opinion. This is the Gospel Truth.
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The Offering is for all it saved, that is the Gospel truth. If His Blood/Death doesn't effect Salvation for the Sheep He died for there's no Gospel to preach.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#196
May 24, 2014
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#196
brightfame52 said:
He loves them He saved.
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He loved and loves them all.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 
TMS

TMS

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#197
Mar 21, 2015
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#197
eternally-gratefull said:
If they are going to be saved with no choice in doing it, and no chance of rejecting, they are basically forced
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i agree,
Do we have a choice in the matter. Do we choose if we want to have salvation or not have the gift of salvation??
Does God force us into eternal death and eternal life?
Is God like that?
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#198
Mar 21, 2015
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#198
Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

we have a choice
we are not born predestined as a sheep or a goat.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#200
#200
TMS said:
Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

we have a choice
we are not born predestined as a sheep or a goat.
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i do not see how they can not see this

they claim God always gets his will

but Jesus said israel was not willing for him to do what he willed to do for them

as soverignty God, he has the right to give up his will in order to have a loving relationship with those whome he loves, remove that will, and you remove a relationship,
 
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