The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#221
#221
brightfame52 said:
Yes it does. Any scripture referencing the Death of Christ, who He died for, is defined by the very words of Christ. Jn 10:11,15 And His Death effects Salvation.
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Well think about it, if it were not for the sheep, his death would have been useless.

it does not mean he died only for them

you have God hating people so much he refuses to go ve them even a possibility to repent.

that my friend, is damaging to his character
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#224
Nov 21, 2020
5,923
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#224
eternally-gratefull said:
Well think about it, if it were not for the sheep, his death would have been useless.

it does not mean he died only for them

you have God hating people so much he refuses to go ve them even a possibility to repent.

that my friend, is damaging to his character
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Yes He only died for them. What did He say in Jn 10 ? If you go beyond the foundation Christ aid as to whom He specifically stated He died for, you venture into speculation. And His Death effects Salvation !
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#227
#227
Calvin wasn't even a Calvinist of today's Calvinism. Not that I care what Calvin said or taught. The horrific tyranny that occured in Geneva under the teaching of Calvin is the fruit of his theology.
No joke, I was listening to a professor teaching about the reformation, in attempt to kind of justify Calvin compared him to Henry the 8th, say this was the common mode of operation in the times.
Sorry, but you don't see this in Wittenberg, under the teachings of Luther. So it isn't just modus operandi of the times, and therefore acceptable.

A study of Augustine would serve many Calvinists well, being that Calvin took the teachings of Augustine to extremes. However Augustine didn't ignore 1 john 2:2.
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2 ESV
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#228
#228
brightfame52 said:
Yes He only died for them. What did He say in Jn 10 ? If you go beyond the foundation Christ aid as to whom He specifically stated He died for, you venture into speculation. And His Death effects Salvation !
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Nope, it does not say that, especially when we take the rest of the bible into account, you do not make a doctrine on one verse
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#230
#230
brightfame52 said:
Christs death results in salvation for them He died for. So He only died for the saved, not those who are lost for good.
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Nope

christ death OFFERS salvation

by grace THROUGH FAITH

salvation is not in effect until faith.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#231
#231
brightfame52 said:
Thats the saved world that Christ effected Salvation for.
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Reading comprehension, "not only us" BUT, "the WHOLE world"
I'm not a liberal I use the meaning that words have not twist them to my agenda.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#232
#232
I knew not to open this thread, but the title set me to wonder what praise would be offered to our Lord Jesus. Sadly it turned out to be another attempt to govern Jesus and rule over his death and the application of the atonement there of.
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
#235
Nov 21, 2020
5,923
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#235
Blackpowderduelist said:
Reading comprehension, "not only us" BUT, "the WHOLE world"
I'm not a liberal I use the meaning that words have not twist them to my agenda.
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Thats just a distinction made between jews and gentiles. Its still the saved world. Christ has satisfied for them, Gods law and justice, so they are forgiven, Justified, saved !
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#236
#236
brightfame52 said:
Yes, and its shame to deny it.
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Yeah it is, but many do, abd because of unbelief they will suffer eternal death

for those who repent and come to faith, they will be born again and spend eternity alive with Christ
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#237
#237
brightfame52 said:
Thats just a distinction made between jews and gentiles. Its still the saved world. Christ has satisfied for them, Gods law and justice, so they are forgiven, Justified, saved !
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So now you are the arbiter of what John meant, and assign meaning outside of the context. John isn't contrasting or comparing Jews and gentiles. He is clearly by context and normal read comprehension methods simply talking about sin and the atonement of Christ.
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1‭-‬2 ESV

Even from the previous chapter.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#238
Jul 8, 2018
8,332
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#238
eternally-gratefull said:
We were all atheists at one time

if we remain in that state and die in that state,we have rejected the call of God and will spend eternity dead

receiving the gospel n faith is what justifies us, and being justified we who were dead are made alive
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The trouble with your theory is that the natural, unregenerate, man cannot receive the gospel in spiritual faith, because he only has faith in mankind and his accomplishments. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, Gal 6:22, which comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the new birth. The "faith" in Eph 2:8 is not our faith, but is Jesus's faith that justifies us, Gal 2:16.

You are right that we are all born into this world spiritually dead until God quickens us to a spiritual life with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit while we are yet spiritually dead, with no ability to respond to the things of the Spirit, Eph 2.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#239
#239
ForestGreenCook said:
The trouble with your theory is that the natural, unregenerate, man cannot receive the gospel in spiritual faith, because he only has faith in mankind and his accomplishments. Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, Gal 6:22, which comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the new birth. The "faith" in Eph 2:8 is not our faith, but is Jesus's faith that justifies us, Gal 2:16.

You are right that we are all born into this world spiritually dead until God quickens us to a spiritual life with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit while we are yet spiritually dead, with no ability to respond to the things of the Spirit, Eph 2.
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Blah blah blah

your insistence on this nonsense is getting old my friend

if the natural man could not come to Christ no one could ever be born again.

because in order to be born again, the penalty of sin must be redeemed and the person justified

we are justified by faith

no faith, no forgiveness of sin, and no new birth
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#240
Jul 8, 2018
8,332
1,187
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#240
Corban said:
Aaahhh! I think we draw closer to an agreement. "Used differently" is great. So, in my example, the usage in my first verse means that God loves His creation - the "adornment" of stars and planets and their governing laws. Since Adam's rebellion and Abel's murder, it lies under curse. Shedding of innocent blood, sexual sins and idolatry pollute the earth. God wants to redeem it from the curse. This is realized in Jesus Christ whose blood "speaketh better things that that of Abel." Abel's blood cried from the ground for vengeance, and a just God must answer. Jesus' blood IS THAT VENGEANCE and so God can judicially restore the kosmos.

In the second example from 1st John the "world" is still the "adornment" but it speaks of how things are arranged under Gentile government and Satan's instigation. It is an "adornment" of human government, like when He stood before Pilate and said that His Kingdom was not of this "world". It was the "arrangement" of Gentile Occult Theocratic government that did not constitute His "arrangement" of things. And the system of Satan is, (i) the lust of the eyes (advertising & marketing), (ii) the lust of the flesh (sexual sins and socialism where you get paid to do nothing), and (iii) the pride of life - being famous is better than wealth. This is the "arrangement of things" now.
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I think that you still have the wrong implication of the word "world" in John 3:16. It has reference to the "world of believers", and not the "adorning world". God redeemed his people, that he gave to his Son, from the curse of their sins. Sometime in their life, God quickened them to a spiritual life that they could believe in the things of the Spirit.
 
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