Ramon you say you searched and found god but you say that I should not trust what men say because they lie. So how do I know if you are lying or not? Or more likely how do I know that you are not mistaken? Why should I trust what has been written or said about god? Why should I trust your delusion over anyone else's?
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R
Well search, duh!! LOL. No seriously. If you take it from people all the time you might end up being a hypocrite. I didn't learn the Truth from church. I went to many churches but never knew the Truth. So I decided to put people aside. And it turned out Jesus was not what many people make him out to be. And that God is not how many people see him. And like I said to the other guy, I haven't yet seen a person who could even stand in the presence of God without fear and trembling. Once you know then you know, and you will end up like me, trying to tell people what you have witnessed. But they just will not listen. Still, we can't go around forcing people to believe can we?
Why would one fear and tremble in the presence of god if he is such a swell guy? So is Jesus another god or just another name for god? It seems from what Jimmy Digs says that you can't see god because he is immaterial. Photons only seem to work with matter. So I don't see how you can see something that is not made of matter. I don't think I want to end up like you Ramon, babbleing about immaterial things that can't be seen. If it is so important to find god why does it make it so hard? why not just show it's self and quit with all of the games of hide and see? It makes more sense that it does not exist and you are just making it up because of some fear of death or some need to feel special or you are just too lazy to learn of how the universe really works because it would require an understanding of science and math. And science and math are just too darn hard to comprehend for some.
W
right then why cant i say the universe always was here. this may be what you belive but what make u think if an atheist read that and accepeted jesus they wont question anything i read that and questioned how do you know god always was why do you belive that if you say "thats just what i belive i dont need anything to support that" thats not gona help anyone that doesnt give a reason for some1 to belive in what you saying if your reason was different and had something good to back it up then maybe will see your point as to why u belive god always was and may have a different opinion on the matter.
J
Ever traversed and infinate number of past events?
Also, this might help. Good reads.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8457 <-- click
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6115 <--- click
Also, this might help. Good reads.
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=8457 <-- click
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6115 <--- click
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Well if you're at all concerned about science, logic or proof then you should realise that there are many in the scientific community who say that the universe isn't eternal. I'm not sure how the concept of a universe that has "always been here" fits into the metric expansion of space, i.e. the universe is expanding; if it has been here forever, why has it not expanded to an infinite size (or more accurately why is there not an infinite amount of distance between points in space)?
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W
to cause to me asking why is because your giving me answers without reasons so again why is there no need for a cause for god and is your reason for that is because god did not begin to exist (which makes no logical sense) then again why did he not begin to exist. if he doesnt exist how did he become the cause of the universe what made him exist
if this is still hard to understand im basically asking why do you belive
2) God did not begin to exist
3) God does not require a cause
if this is still hard to understand im basically asking why do you belive
2) God did not begin to exist
3) God does not require a cause
Aye, but that's not the point (I don't even think there is one...)
If you put it in the order of:
1) That which begins to exist must have a cause
2) God did not begin to exist
3) God does not require a cause
You essentially get:
1) All things which begin to exist are things that require a cause
2) God is not a thing which began to exist
3) Therefore God is not a thing that requires a cause
Which, put in simpler terms is:
1) All A's are B's
2) Object C is not an A
3) Therefore object C is not a B
It may make some kind of sense in practical terms, but the argument pattern is invalid...
For a further example, the classic postbox problem:
1) All mail boxes are red (this was from the old UK where they were indeed red)
2) The red balloon is not a mail box
3) Therefore the red balloon is not red!
Either way it's a rather silly point that I just raised out of interest... No real significance.
If you put it in the order of:
1) That which begins to exist must have a cause
2) God did not begin to exist
3) God does not require a cause
You essentially get:
1) All things which begin to exist are things that require a cause
2) God is not a thing which began to exist
3) Therefore God is not a thing that requires a cause
Which, put in simpler terms is:
1) All A's are B's
2) Object C is not an A
3) Therefore object C is not a B
It may make some kind of sense in practical terms, but the argument pattern is invalid...
For a further example, the classic postbox problem:
1) All mail boxes are red (this was from the old UK where they were indeed red)
2) The red balloon is not a mail box
3) Therefore the red balloon is not red!
Either way it's a rather silly point that I just raised out of interest... No real significance.
R
Well, you really do underestimate God. You say he cannot be seen but he surely can. But in order to go from the natural things to the Spiritual things, it takes a 2nd pair of eyes. But this is far too much for you, since, even seeing the natural proof of him, you still can't believe. You still avoid the question as to how you know things in those text books are credible to you since you haven't seen them with your own eyes.
You keep giving yourself excuses, but you only have one lifetime to find out. And that would only be the beginning, because once you find out he is real, then you have to obey him. As for Jesus, it might sound even more foolish since you deny God. But if you must know. Jesus is the Son of God who was sent from heaven. Since people have gone and messed up the purpose for life, and started a chain of sin that ends in death, as you see the world hurrying toward the end of that chain, there had to be a counteraction that would put an end to death.
Here is the deal, you messed up, God had to fix your mess. However alongside this, since the creation of God has grown so rebellious to him, even so far as denying his existence, we hardly see the miracles. Because it takes faith. I am telling you this. God has the power to raise the dead. Can science do this?
You keep giving yourself excuses, but you only have one lifetime to find out. And that would only be the beginning, because once you find out he is real, then you have to obey him. As for Jesus, it might sound even more foolish since you deny God. But if you must know. Jesus is the Son of God who was sent from heaven. Since people have gone and messed up the purpose for life, and started a chain of sin that ends in death, as you see the world hurrying toward the end of that chain, there had to be a counteraction that would put an end to death.
Here is the deal, you messed up, God had to fix your mess. However alongside this, since the creation of God has grown so rebellious to him, even so far as denying his existence, we hardly see the miracles. Because it takes faith. I am telling you this. God has the power to raise the dead. Can science do this?