Calvinists are preaching a false message .

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T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#1
Aug 4, 2020
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#1
It could not be any more simple.
God holds everyone responsible. Response - able . Jesus Marvels at peoples ' unbelief ' . God commands all men everywhere to repent. It could not be clearer that Jesus died for all and that all can respond positively to the Gospel.
But Calvinism teaches the exact opposite to the bible . This is a serious issue . One in which should concern us ,as the popularity of Calvinism is currently at its peak ..
What say you?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#2
Jul 3, 2015
60,346
29,593
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#2

1 Timothy 2;1-4

Revelation 22:16-17

Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:20 :)
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#3
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#3
throughfaith said:
It could not be any more simple.
God holds everyone responsible. Response - able . Jesus Marvels at peoples ' unbelief ' . God commands all men everywhere to repent. It could not be clearer that Jesus died for all and that all can respond positively to the Gospel.
But Calvinism teaches the exact opposite to the bible . This is a serious issue . One in which should concern us ,as the popularity of Calvinism is currently at its peak ..
What say you?
Click to expand...
If God calls for all men everywhere to repent, can you explain to me, how can the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness?

Christ's death on the cross paid for the sins only of those that His Father gave to him. Christ's sacrifice was offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to man, for man's acceptance.

Christ's work was finished on the cross, as he stated, securing eternal salvation for all that he died for.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#4
#4
I think Calvinists actually are in danger of blasphemy. They devalue the blood of Jesus, the nature of Jesus, and malign the name of God.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#5
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#5
Magenta said:

1 Timothy 2;1-4

Revelation 22:16-17

Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:20:)
Click to expand...
There is a deliverance(salvation) for the regenerated child of God to come unto a knowledge of the truth, as he sojourns here on earth.

The natural man/woman, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, cannot hear and understand the things of the Spirit to come, nor does he desire a spiritual life that he does not believe in. neither does he hear God's voice. only the regenerated hear his voice.

I realise that you only quote the scriptures, without interpreting them, and that is fine, but I thought these scriptures needed some explaining.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#7
Jul 3, 2015
60,346
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#7
ForestGreenCook said:
Can you explain how the do that?
Click to expand...
I think it would have to do with God torturing and tormenting people forever after (as some believe)
for failing to make a choice that was never meant for or offered to them in the first place (as some believe).
 
R

Rondonmon

Senior Member
#8
May 13, 2016
1,304
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#8
ForestGreenCook said:
If God calls for all men everywhere to repent, can you explain to me, how can the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness?

Christ's death on the cross paid for the sins only of those that His Father gave to him. Christ's sacrifice was offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to man, for man's acceptance.

Christ's work was finished on the cross, as he stated, securing eternal salvation for all that he died for.
Click to expand...
Your problem, along with others, is not understanding the essence of a JUST God, Predestination violates God as being a JUST God. The Predestination Paul was speaking about is the Predestination of ALL MANKIND via his shed blood, to life eternal, there is only ONE CATCH, everyone has free will, and thus they must except this free pardon.

If a Warden offered to pardon everyone on death row and five death row inmates refused that pardon, you couldn't then turn around and say the Warden forechoose who would be given life, and who would die, you would have to say that the Warden offered life to all, and 5 chose to die instead.

Thus the Predestination Paul was speaking about was the predestination that we would all need a Sacrificial Lamb, and God supplied that via foreknowledge.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#9
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#9
Once people have it in their mind to believe something a certain way, it is hard to undo that. Often it is a result of years of conditioning. It is difficult to outright correct someone using scripture even when the corresponding verses are shown to dispel false narratives. You also need to consider that pride and ego are amplified in front of other people; slim chance someone is going to cede ground and be humiliated because they don't want to lose face. It's better to just plant seeds and let God water the seeds. When or if someone is ready to understand they will. Also be prepared to accept that they may never understand.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#10
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#10
Rondonmon said:
Your problem, along with others, is not understanding the essence of a JUST God, Predestination violates God as being a JUST God. The Predestination Paul was speaking about is the Predestination of ALL MANKIND via his shed blood, to life eternal, there is only ONE CATCH, everyone has free will, and thus they must except this free pardon.

If a Warden offered to pardon everyone on death row and five death row inmates refused that pardon, you couldn't then turn around and say the Warden forechoose who would be given life, and who would die, you would have to say that the Warden offered life to all, and 5 chose to die instead.

Thus the Predestination Paul was speaking about was the predestination that we would all need a Sacrificial Lamb, and God supplied that via foreknowledge.
Click to expand...
I agree we have free will . I believe ' predestination ' is what happens after we become in Christ. We are then predestinated to certain glorification.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#11
#11
Magenta said:
I think it would have to do with God torturing and tormenting people forever after (as some believe)
for failing to make a choice that was never meant for or offered to them in the first place (as some believe).
Click to expand...
In deed.
When the Spirit had Peter write this. "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
"
2 Peter 3:9 ESV

Is Peter a false prophet or is the Holy Spirit a liar, or are Calvinists critically wrong? My bet is that Calvinists are dead wrong.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#12
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#12
Magenta said:
I think it would have to do with God torturing and tormenting people forever after (as some believe)
for failing to make a choice that was never meant for or offered to them in the first place (as some believe).
Click to expand...
I have admiration for the way you think.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#13
Jul 3, 2015
60,346
29,593
113
#13
Blackpowderduelist said:
In deed.
When the Spirit had Peter write this. "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
"
2 Peter 3:9 ESV

Is Peter a false prophet or is the Holy Spirit a liar, or are Calvinists critically wrong? My bet is that Calvinists are dead wrong.
Click to expand...

2 Peter 3:9 :)
ForestGreenCook said:
I have admiration for the way you think.
Click to expand...
Thank you :) Though I don't think I can take credit for that :giggle: Or anything, really :D



Philippians 4:4 :)
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#14
#14
Is Paul also a false teacher?
"This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
"
1 Timothy 2:3‭-‬6 ESV

If Paul and Peter are both false, we have no new testament. Or it could be that Calvinists are wrong. My bet is that the Calvinists are wrong.
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#15
May 3, 2018
2,511
482
83
#15
ForestGreenCook said:
If God calls for all men everywhere to repent, can you explain to me, how can the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness?

Christ's death on the cross paid for the sins only of those that His Father gave to him. Christ's sacrifice was offered to God, for God's acceptance, and not to man, for man's acceptance.

Christ's work was finished on the cross, as he stated, securing eternal salvation for all that he died for.
Click to expand...
Rondonmon said:
Your problem, along with others, is not understanding the essence of a JUST God, Predestination violates God as being a JUST God. The Predestination Paul was speaking about is the Predestination of ALL MANKIND via his shed blood, to life eternal, there is only ONE CATCH, everyone has free will, and thus they must except this free pardon.

If a Warden offered to pardon everyone on death row and five death row inmates refused that pardon, you couldn't then turn around and say the Warden forechoose who would be given life, and who would die, you would have to say that the Warden offered life to all, and 5 chose to die instead.

Thus the Predestination Paul was speaking about was the predestination that we would all need a Sacrificial Lamb, and God supplied that via foreknowledge.
Click to expand...
The first heaven, work of The law.
The second heave, work of faith.
The third heaven,work of holy spirit.

The second heaven is spiritual to the first heaven,The first heaven still flesh.
The third heaven is spiritual to The second heaven.The second heaven still flesh.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#16
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#16
Rondonmon said:
Your problem, along with others, is not understanding the essence of a JUST God, Predestination violates God as being a JUST God. The Predestination Paul was speaking about is the Predestination of ALL MANKIND via his shed blood, to life eternal, there is only ONE CATCH, everyone has free will, and thus they must except this free pardon.

If a Warden offered to pardon everyone on death row and five death row inmates refused that pardon, you couldn't then turn around and say the Warden forechoose who would be given life, and who would die, you would have to say that the Warden offered life to all, and 5 chose to die instead.

Thus the Predestination Paul was speaking about was the predestination that we would all need a Sacrificial Lamb, and God supplied that via foreknowledge.
Click to expand...
I sometimes come across as being blunt with my defense of the scriptures, I hope you won't take it that way.

Your "via foreknowledge" left a question on my mind as to whether you understood what God saw by his foreknowledge. Psalms 53: 2-3, God looked down from heaven upon the children of men to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back. They are altogether become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

I believe that God would have still been a just God if he had let them all Go to hell, but by his mercy he choose to save some of them.

Although God did give mankind the freedom to choose how they wanted to live there lives here on earth, he did not give them the freedom to choose their eternal life, due to what he saw by his foreknowledge.

God purposes things, and all of his purposes prevail. God could have purposed to save all mankind, but he did not. I have a lot of question as to why God does and does not do certain things, but my thinking is on a much lower level than God's is.

I do not believe that God was surprised by all of mankind not seeking him, because scriptures tell us that God knows all things.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#17
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#17
Runningman said:
Once people have it in their mind to believe something a certain way, it is hard to undo that. Often it is a result of years of conditioning. It is difficult to outright correct someone using scripture even when the corresponding verses are shown to dispel false narratives. You also need to consider that pride and ego are amplified in front of other people; slim chance someone is going to cede ground and be humiliated because they don't want to lose face. It's better to just plant seeds and let God water the seeds. When or if someone is ready to understand they will. Also be prepared to accept that they may never understand.
Click to expand...
I admire how you worded your post, and I agree with it, but we are also instructed by scripture in 1 Pet 3:15, to always be ready to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#18
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#18
throughfaith said:
I agree we have free will . I believe ' predestination ' is what happens after we become in Christ. We are then predestinated to certain glorification.
Click to expand...
We are predestined to be adopted as his children.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#19
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#19
Blackpowderduelist said:
In deed.
When the Spirit had Peter write this. "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
"
2 Peter 3:9 ESV

Is Peter a false prophet or is the Holy Spirit a liar, or are Calvinists critically wrong? My bet is that Calvinists are dead wrong.
Click to expand...
Are you sure that your interpretation of 2 Pet 3:9 will harmonize with the other scriptures?

In order to see who Peter is giving this warning to, we have to go back to 2 Pet 1:1, and we find that he is talking to them that have like precious faith. Peter even includes himself in his warning by using the word "us-ward". He is telling them that God is longsuffering with them when they commit a sin, not willing that any should,"perish=death=separation", be separated from their fellowship with him, because he cannot fellowship sin, telling them to repent and he will we welcome them back into fellowship.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#20
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#20
Blackpowderduelist said:
Is Paul also a false teacher?
"This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
"
1 Timothy 2:3‭-‬6 ESV

If Paul and Peter are both false, we have no new testament. Or it could be that Calvinists are wrong. My bet is that the Calvinists are wrong.
Click to expand...
Save, Saved, and Salvation, according to Greed means, deliver, delivered and deliverance. There is an eternal deliverance, and there are many deliverances that the regenerated child of God experiences as he sojourns here in this world.

There is a deliverance here in this world when a regenerated child of God comes unto a knowledge of the truth. When we are born again, we are new born babes in Christ feeding upon the milk of the word, and gradually gain knowledge to reach maturity, just the same way that a baby does

All scriptures must harmonize in order to understand the truths within them with the revelation of the Holy Ghost within us.
 
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