"The Soul That Sinneth, It SHALL Die."

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throughfaith

Well-known member
#81
Aug 4, 2020
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#81
Phoneman-777 said:
Many claim this verse, and the others below, refers to a future "spiritual death" of the soul where it will spend eternity in torment.

This can't be referring to the future...why?

When the Bible speaks of "spiritual death", it puts it in the present tense, not future tense:

"She that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth." -- 1 Timothy 5:6 KJV​
​
Clearly, spiritual death has nothing to do with the future, but with the present, and therefore the soul that resists Jesus until the end will experience a literal death, not a spiritual death BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

Other texts which point to this future literal death of the soul:

"Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner...shall save a soul from death..." -- James 5:20 KJV

"...can destroy (in the future) both soul and body in hell." -- Matthew 10:28 KJV

...every living soul died in the sea." -- Revelation 16:3 KJV

"And it shall come to pass that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed..." -- Acts 3:23 KJV
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No verse in the new testament refers to sins we do leading to spiritual death .
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#82
Aug 3, 2019
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#82
Magenta said:
Jesus also said, we will never die :)
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Jesus said Christians don't die - they sleep - and wake up in the Resurrection.

A person can't be simultaneously awake and asleep any more than a girl can be simultaneously pregnant and not pregnant. :)
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#83
Jul 3, 2015
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#83
Phoneman-777 said:
Jesus said Christians don't die - they sleep - and wake up in the Resurrection.

A person can't be simultaneously awake and asleep any more than a girl can be simultaneously pregnant and not pregnant. :)
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I agree :) Ha, though many do not ;)
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#84
Aug 3, 2019
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#84
throughfaith said:
No verse in the new testament refers to sins we do leading to spiritual death .
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The NT is filled with verses that say to the Christian convert that if he turns back to sin, he will not make it to heaven.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#85
Jul 3, 2015
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#85
Phoneman-777 said:
The NT is filled with verses that say to the Christian convert that if he turns back to sin, he will not make it to heaven.
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However, there is only one unforgivable sin.

Those who depart the faith show they never really belonged in the first place...
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#86
Aug 3, 2019
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#86
Magenta said:
I agree :) Ha, though many do not ;)
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Although, I remember in "An Officer and a Gentleman", that one girl was full on pregnant until she found out her boyfriend quit his officer training...then she told him the truth and broke up with him LOL Does that count?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#87
Jul 3, 2015
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#87
Phoneman-777 said:
Although, I remember in "An Officer and a Gentleman", that one girl was full on pregnant until she found out her boyfriend quit his officer training...then she told him the truth and broke up with him LOL Does that count?
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Um, what? LOL. I did see that movie many years ago. But I am not sure how it fits the convo?

By the way... welcome back :)
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#88
Aug 3, 2019
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#88
Magenta said:
However, there is only one unforgivable sin.

Those who depart the faith show they never really belonged in the first place...
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I think the evidence points to the contrary...the fact that Jesus commands us to "abide in the Vine" demands that we have the option to cease from abiding. Therefore, the assurance of salvation at this moment is dependent on remaining surrendered to God, and at no point saying to Him, "This far and no further, Lord", at which point we cease to abide.

It's difficult to be lost ... instead of resting and trusting in the Vine though violent winds try in vain to snap us off, we actually gotta go through the trouble of getting a chainsaw and mixing the oil and gas and sharpening the teeth and tightening the slack and cranking it 50 times to start it before cutting ourselves free from the only thing that is keeping us alive.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#89
Aug 3, 2019
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#89
Magenta said:
Um, what? LOL. I did see that movie many years ago. But I am not sure how it fits the convo?

By the way... welcome back :)
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Thanks LOL I said we can't be awake and asleep at the same time any more than a girl can be preg and not preg at the same time, then I tried to make a joke by saying, well maybe there's an exception where the girl in the movie tried to trap the guy into marrying her by saying she was preg when she was not Hahaha bad joke
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#90
Aug 3, 2019
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#90
throughfaith said:
No verse in the new testament refers to sins we do leading to spiritual death .
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So, you're saying that a full on converted Christian who decides backslides from his walk with God and turns to worshiping the devil and sacrificing children won't be guilty of "a sin that leads to spiritual death"?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#91
Aug 4, 2020
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#91
Phoneman-777 said:
The NT is filled with verses that say to the Christian convert that if he turns back to sin, he will not make it to heaven.
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Not one single verse says this . Not for a person sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Some Christians do not believe the bible and read in context.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#92
Aug 4, 2020
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#92
Phoneman-777 said:
So, you're saying that a full on converted Christian who decides backslides from his walk with God and turns to worshiping the devil and sacrificing children won't be guilty of "a sin that leads to spiritual death"?
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All those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#93
Aug 3, 2019
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#93
throughfaith said:
Not one single verse says this . Not for a person sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Some Christians do not believe the bible and read in context.
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I don't think you understand what it means to be "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. A "seal" in Scripture refers to a "sign" or "token", not some container in which we are trapped with no exit.

Have you read what Peter says about those who've escaped the pollution of the world, but become entangled again therein? Or what Paul says about those who are converted but fall away? Or what God says about those who "draw back", in which His soul will have no pleasure? Surely, you don't believe it will be well with any of these former converts who turned their back on God.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#94
Aug 3, 2019
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#94
throughfaith said:
All those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit are sealed unto the day of redemption.
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"Bind up the testimony...seal the LAW among My disciples." Those who break the Law of God are no longer sealed by it, plain and simple.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#95
Aug 4, 2020
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#95
Phoneman-777 said:
I don't think you understand what it means to be "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. A "seal" in Scripture refers to a "sign" or "token", not some container in which we are trapped with no exit.

Have you read what Peter says about those who've escaped the pollution of the world, but become entangled again therein? Or what Paul says about those who are converted but fall away? Or what God says about those who "draw back", in which His soul will have no pleasure? Surely, you don't believe it will be well with any of these former converts who turned their back on God.
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Yes I've know the routine verses that people use the obscure to interpret the clear . .Hebrews 6 no doubt will be your next verse . You do not understand salvation and how a person is saved . A believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit not by selotape ..And the duration , as the verse clearly says is unto the day of redemption. You cannot break God's seal .
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#96
Aug 4, 2020
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#96
Phoneman-777 said:
I don't think you understand what it means to be "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. A "seal" in Scripture refers to a "sign" or "token", not some container in which we are trapped with no exit.

Have you read what Peter says about those who've escaped the pollution of the world, but become entangled again therein? Or what Paul says about those who are converted but fall away? Or what God says about those who "draw back", in which His soul will have no pleasure? Surely, you don't believe it will be well with any of these former converts who turned their back on God.
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Eph 1
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED WITH !!!!! that HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE ,

14Which IS !!!! the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL !!!!! the REDEMPTION the PURCHASED POSSESION , unto the praise of his glory.

No mention of a token , sign or sticky tape .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#97
Aug 4, 2020
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#97
Phoneman-777 said:
I think the evidence points to the contrary...the fact that Jesus commands us to "abide in the Vine" demands that we have the option to cease from abiding. Therefore, the assurance of salvation at this moment is dependent on remaining surrendered to God, and at no point saying to Him, "This far and no further, Lord", at which point we cease to abide.

It's difficult to be lost ... instead of resting and trusting in the Vine though violent winds try in vain to snap us off, we actually gotta go through the trouble of getting a chainsaw and mixing the oil and gas and sharpening the teeth and tightening the slack and cranking it 50 times to start it before cutting ourselves free from the only thing that is keeping us alive.
Click to expand...
Who did Jesus tell to abide?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#98
Aug 4, 2020
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#98
Phoneman-777 said:
"Bind up the testimony...seal the LAW among My disciples." Those who break the Law of God are no longer sealed by it, plain and simple.
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Quoting a verse in the old testament prior to Jesus fulfilling the law shows you do not rightly divide .A believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit UNTO the day of redemption ( Eph 4.30 ) not by a inoperable law that was for Israel to drive them to Faith .
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#99
Aug 3, 2019
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#99
throughfaith said:
Eph 1
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED WITH !!!!! that HOLY SPIRIT of PROMISE ,

14Which IS !!!! the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL !!!!! the REDEMPTION the PURCHASED POSSESION , unto the praise of his glory.

No mention of a token , sign or sticky tape .
Click to expand...
You gotta look up the Greek...and Hebrew. And remember that the "seal" has to do with the "Law", according to Isaiah 8:16 KJV.

We can't go making up some arbitrary definition of what the seal is...we gotta "compare Scripture with Scripture".
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#100
Aug 3, 2019
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#100
throughfaith said:
Quoting a verse in the old testament prior to Jesus fulfilling the law shows you do not rightly divide .
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Insinuating that Jesus' fulfilling the law excuses the rest of us from our obligation to obey it shows that about you, friend.

Is the grace shown you by a cop who caught you speeding a license to tear off down the road as fast as you can...or are you STILL required to obey the speed limit?
 
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