Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

[throughfaith]

"Bind up the testimony, seal the LAW among My disciples". The Holy Spirit can't continue to seal you with God's Law if you withdraw your surrender to the authority of God and His law which He commands you to obey by the indwelling grace and power of Jesus.

AGAIN .. SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT ..NOT THE LAW . NOT BY WAX . NOT BY SELOTAPE . NOT BY A STAMP .

AND THE UNTIL WHEN ? WHEN WE MESS UP ? WHEN WE SIN ? NO !

UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And what do you believe ' repent ' means ? Within Christianity we have so many different versions of the word .

Well let's see

if you go from unbelief to belief what would it be called?

 

[throughfaith]

I think ' repentence ' has become the new sacrificial system for some . And asking for forgiveness. Its like they are making an offering each time for sins . This is done many times a day .

 

[Kolistus]

LOL. It's my reminder that I used to have only one chin. Helps me say no to pizza. Except on Fridays. Calories don't count on Fridays.
...and Saturdays.

I cannot PM you, but I would like to ask you what church you attend if any? You are a continuationist, pre-tribber that much I can tell. I am just curious. I enjoy reading your posts, while i may disagree on some topics such as the covid vaccines, your posts are usually logical and scholarly.

 

[david-a-servant]

Eph 2, explains how. When is questionable, as John 3:8 says "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth, so is everyone that is born of the Spirit. I do not remember when I was born of the Spirit, but I have evidence that I was.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

These believers obviously remembered when they were born of the Spirit. The reason why Peter and John went to Samaria was stated (to lay their hands on the believers that they might receive the Holy Ghost). Similarly, Paul asked the believers at Ephesus if they had received the Holy Ghost, and when he found they hadn't, he laid his hands on them and they were filled.

 

[david-a-servant]

Satan the master decieved. He should get the credit,

or so-called Christians should get the blame

 

[david-a-servant]

" Started out good " ...Were not dealing with Santa here . let's look again at this verse . SEALED.....UNTO ...THE ........DAY OF REDEMPTION!!! .

AND AGAIN .
Eph 1
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

A believer is Guaranteed to be adopted which happens ...Rom 8.23 .

AGAIN .

Eph 1 .
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed !!!!!!!!! with that holy Spirit of promise,

14Which is the earnest ( GURANTEE ) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


AGAIN

Rom 8 .
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

AGAIN .
Eph 2
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye ARE saved

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

SEATED IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS . A believer is already spiritually resurrected.

We never earned our salvation by our efforts/ good deeds . We did nothing to earn it . We can't do anything to maintain or keep it . Thats not how salvation works .

"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches"

" Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
But that which ye have already hold fast till I come."

"Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"

1 Corinthians 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall

 

[Scribe]

I cannot PM you, but I would like to ask you what church you attend if any? You are a continuationist, pre-tribber that much I can tell. I am just curious. I enjoy reading your posts, while i may disagree on some topics such as the covid vaccines, your posts are usually logical and scholarly.

I attend an Assemblies of God church. I found most of their doctrinal statements to be what I had already discovered but also I love the people. They have such a zeal for holiness, full surrender, eternal focus, soul winning, no compromise, 100% sold out to Jesus, and that is usually 80% of the congregations.

There is also that serious approach to prayer and hearing from the Holy Spirit.
I was called to fulltime ministry and I am in my third year of internship training and bible college. As we seek God together and pray, I have a large network of men of God who will meet together, get on their face and pray for hours or days until they hear from the Holy Spirit on a matter.

This kind of intensity straight out of the book of Acts is not common in every denomination. There is an emphasis on praying, fasting, ministering to the Lord and hearing from the Holy Spirit and then laying hands on someone and sending them out, like they did with Paul and Barnabas. I needed this in my life. I believe this is God's method.

I was saved in prison and by reading the bible with no church background or influence I naturally was a continuationist before I knew that there was a controversy.

My story of researching all denominations and their history and teachings started in the 80s when I was trying to determine which church to attend after being released. It is a long story.

 

[throughfaith]

"Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches"

" Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
But that which ye have already hold fast till I come."

"Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."

"I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"

1 Corinthians 10:12
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall

Again let the clear verses stand. Your not establishing how salvation works . How the atonement works. How the sealing of the Holy spirit works . How we are declared justified . How we recieve Christ's righteousness. How we are predestined to the adoption . How we are ' in christ ' ect ect ..All you and those that hold to fear based grace less position of ' conditional salvation ' do is gloss over the clear verses on salvation and go to the unclear first. Verses that are about rewards , verses that are OT . verses that are for Israel, verses that are for the tribulation, verses that are about physical death, and turn them into insecurity for the believer . Because your insecure in your understanding of the bible.

 

[david-a-servant]

Again let the clear verses stand. Your not establishing how salvation works . How the atonement works. How the sealing of the Holy spirit works . How we are declared justified . How we recieve Christ's righteousness. How we are predestined to the adoption . How we are ' in christ ' ect ect ..All you and those that hold to fear based grace less position of ' conditional salvation ' do is gloss over the clear verses on salvation and go to the unclear first. Verses that are about rewards , verses that are OT . verses that are for Israel, verses that are for the tribulation, verses that are about physical death, and turn them into insecurity for the believer . Because your insecure in your understanding of the bible.

My motives are clearly the same as the apostles and teachers who wrote the scriptures that are inspired by the Holy Spirit. I hope you will forsake your doctrine of men so as not to continue to cause a stumbling block to those who have escaped.

 

[throughfaith]

My motives are clearly the same as the apostles and teachers who wrote the scriptures that are inspired by the Holy Spirit. I hope you will forsake your doctrine of men so as not to continue to cause a stumbling block to those who have escaped.

You must first establish the components of salvation . This is how Paul has written for believers to understand what has happened to him and how he is to live and further the Gospel message to others.
What I've notice with those who do not understand the basics of salvation , is that they are swayed into the denominations and teachers who immediately introduce' Christians ' into the ' 80 verses that teach you can lose your salvation ' and ' Eternal security that damnable doctrine ' . So that Just like those that are deceived into calvinism can no longer read the bible without being triggered by ' CHOSEN ' , and ELECTED through a certain set of glasses . The ' Conditional salvation , Wesleyan Arminan / Camberlite/ Church of Christ / Methodist/ David Pawsonite / Pentecostal cannot read the Bible without foaming at the mouth when they read ' IF ' ' HOPE ' ENDURE ' WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION, ABIDE , OBEY , DEATH , REPENT , FIRE , CAST OUT , SIN WIFULLY , COMMANDMENTS , and anything else that supports the presupposition that is imposed onto the text. Jusy like a calvinist who can longer read the bible without seeing ' regeneration precedes faith ' , you can't understand how anyone else can believe in eternal security and must be deceived by the devil . I know because I used to believe what you believe as a new believer.

 

[throughfaith]

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

These believers obviously remembered when they were born of the Spirit. The reason why Peter and John went to Samaria was stated (to lay their hands on the believers that they might receive the Holy Ghost). Similarly, Paul asked the believers at Ephesus if they had received the Holy Ghost, and when he found they hadn't, he laid his hands on them and they were filled.

As is established later by Paul to the Church through the epistles, after the transitional experiences of the Apostles with the unfolding description of how the inclusion of the Gentiles in Acts we see the normative appropriation of salvation is not through laying on of hands , through baptism ect but through believing the Gospel.

 

[david-a-servant]

You must first establish the components of salvation . This is how Paul has written for believers to understand what has happened to him and how he is to live and further the Gospel message to others.
What I've notice with those who do not understand the basics of salvation , is that they are swayed into the denominations and teachers who immediately introduce' Christians ' into the ' 80 verses that teach you can lose your salvation ' and ' Eternal security that damnable doctrine ' . So that Just like those that are deceived into calvinism can no longer read the bible without being triggered by ' CHOSEN ' , and ELECTED through a certain set of glasses . The ' Conditional salvation , Wesleyan Arminan / Camberlite/ Church of Christ / Methodist/ David Pawsonite / Pentecostal cannot read the Bible without foaming at the mouth when they read ' IF ' ' HOPE ' ENDURE ' WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION, ABIDE , OBEY , DEATH , REPENT , FIRE , CAST OUT , SIN WIFULLY , COMMANDMENTS , and anything else that supports the presupposition that is imposed onto the text. Jusy like a calvinist who can longer read the bible without seeing ' regeneration precedes faith ' , you can't understand how anyone else can believe in eternal security and must be deceived by the devil . I know because I used to believe what you believe as a new believer.

guess it boils down to the truth about who is being deceived by the devil and who isn't. I feel confident that the words I teach are gold, silver and precious stones as opposed to your wood, hay, stubble. Christ will be the judge when we receive our reward on that great day.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Sure was, and still is.




Jesus IS God. Man MUST accept the blood IF he wants to get to Heaven someday.

If you would give me scriptures to go with your statement, I would better know how to respond to your post.

 

[throughfaith]

guess it boils down to the truth about who is being deceived by the devil and who isn't. I feel confident that the words I teach are gold, silver and precious stones as opposed to your wood, hay, stubble. Christ will be the judge when we receive our reward on that great day.

I.ll wait for your explanation of how you explain the components of salvation . I.ve never heard a proper explanation from a ' conditional/ works for salvation ' believer as yet .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Excellent analysis. People seem to not be able to differentiate between a just man falling into sin and crying out to God for His outstretched hand to lift them out of the pit...and climbing down into the filth, sitting down comfortably in it, and spurning the hand of God each time He reaches down to lift us out.

There's mercy for the man who wets his pillow with tears at night as he cries out to God for power to overcome a habit, while there is ZERO help for the one who tells God, "this far and no further, Lord."

And do you see the natural, unregenerate, man doing this? Reread 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[david-a-servant]

As is established later by Paul to the Church through the epistles, after the transitional experiences of the Apostles with the unfolding description of how the inclusion of the Gentiles in Acts we see the normative appropriation of salvation is not through laying on of hands , through baptism ect but through believing the Gospel.

Paul's words to the elders of the church at Ephesus " For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." his words to Timothy "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron. We see faith was made shipwreck soon after the apostles left this world.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Can you answer me how it is that God has no trouble talking with the most depraved fallen angel in the entire universe, but He can't even begin to deal with far less objectionable sinners like us until He runs us through a rinse and spin cycle?

Christ did not die for the sins of Satan, just for the sins of those that his Father gave him.

 

[Scribe]

Paul's words to the elders of the church at Ephesus " For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." his words to Timothy "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron. We see faith was made shipwreck soon after the apostles left this world.

Notice that the searing of the conscience happens to those who departed from faith not those who were never part of the church at all. We often hear sermons apply the searing of the conscience to the atheists and unbelievers but that is not what Paul was talking about was it?

 

[david-a-servant]

I.ll wait for your explanation of how you explain the components of salvation . I.ve never heard a proper explanation from a ' conditional/ works for salvation ' believer as yet .

No need to wait. I've given you sufficient spiritual truth in that regard