Obedience is not Legalism, it is.....

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#21
The difference between obeying legalistically and obeying by the spirit of the Lord is love. The parable of the good Samaritan explains it so well. The Pharisee obeyed the commandment to keep the Sabbath legalistically.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#22
there have been plenty over the years some of them have been banned no one has as of late as far as I know however this is something that is believed and taught and it is a dangerous teaching but I know you don't teach it or believe it so whoever accused you of it is in the wrong
What I see is those who believe christian growth is achieved by the law of Christ and not by the law of Moses are these people.

again, never heard anyone preach against obedience.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,947
1,270
113
Australia
#23
OBEDIENCE is not LEGALISM

There are far too many people who believe that being obedient to the Commandments of Jesus equates to Leagelism, and/or one trying to do works to receive Salvation. Both of these views are so very wrong.

OBEDIENCE IS NOT LEGALISM....IT IS LOVE!
I agree, praise God,

Jesus did not come to save us in sin but to save us from sin.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,132
113
New Zealand
#24
OBEDIENCE is not LEGALISM

There are far too many people who believe that being obedient to the Commandments of Jesus equates to Leagelism, and/or one trying to do works to receive Salvation. Both of these views are so very wrong.

Obedience is now, always has been, and always will be required by God. To believe that one can live in disobedience to God and still receive eternal life borders on insanity in my opinion.
Far too many Scriptures reveal the Truth that obedience is required by God for any sane person to argue against or ignore. No true believer can live in disobedience to God. Any person who is living in disobedience to God has a serious issue facing them come the day of Judgement.

John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Acts 5:29 - Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

1 Peter 1:14 - As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

1 John 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14:31 - But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

1 John 3:24 - And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Luke 6:46 - And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

John 8:51 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Romans 2:6
who will render to each person according to his deeds:

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

1 Peter 1:17
If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Psalms 62:12
And lovingkindness is Yours, O Lord,
For You recompense a man according to his work.

Colossians 3:25
For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.

1 Corinthians 3:8
Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

Given all these Scriptures, it is easy to say "are you not trying to earn salvation through works?" Yes, that is an easy question to ask, but it is asked out of ignorance.

Obedience and good works are NOT to earn Salvation: they are a FRUIT of Salvation. It is because of our Salvation, and adoption into the family of God, and having become heirs of the Promise that we are obedient and seek to do the good works that He HAS PURPOSED us for.

When people understand this, then possibly people can walk in obedience to Jesus/God, and not according to the flesh. And, NO, doing this in the heart won't cut it. Our deeds and words are required to be in obedience to God!
Salvation is just the FIRST STEP in our life with Jesus, not the end. Sanctification and Justification are a process that one must continue to seek throughout their life walk with Jesus. John 3:16 says "believeth" and this is translated to be a "continuous act" of believing. Not a one time thing. This is complimented by the words of Jesus when He said:

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I simply feel sorry for those who believe they only have to repent and confess their sinfilled lives and accept Jesus as Lord of their lives ONE TIME; and, after that, they can just go on living. Believing that they never again have to worry about any sin/disobedience they commit. They will surely be rudely surprised come the day they stand before He who will judge.

Again:
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

OBEDIENCE IS NOT LEGALISM....IT IS LOVE!
I dont really know of anyone who thinks they can go and do whatever they want after salvation.

The truth though is that obedience isn't linked to initial receiving eternal life from Jesus.

Salvation is all about Him and what He does for us. It isn't about the person receiving earning it or jumping through any hoops to get it.

It's his gift.. not our effort.

So.. because of this great, unearned, unmerited gift given, what would be the response back?

A christian understands this grace. That's why they obey.

Not because they have to, but out of love for Jesus in His grace given.

Obedience in loving God to have rewards in heaven, not to get to heaven in the first place.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#25
I agree, praise God,

Jesus did not come to save us in sin but to save us from sin.
What about the penalty of sin?

just asking
 
Aug 14, 2019
1,374
307
83
#26
My salvation is based upon what Jesus accomplished at the cross
Amen! And Jesus didn't want to die on the cross. He did it in obedience to the Father. Amen! Obedience=Love.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#27
Amen! And Jesus didn't want to die on the cross. He did it in obedience to the Father. Amen! Obedience=Love.
Yes HE did. " Obedience = love " may be a catchy slogan on a T shirt, its not specific and slippery.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#28
Who
I dont really know of anyone who thinks they can go and do whatever they want after salvation.

The truth though is that obedience isn't linked to initial receiving eternal life from Jesus.

Salvation is all about Him and what He does for us. It isn't about the person receiving earning it or jumping through any hoops to get it.

It's his gift.. not our effort.

So.. because of this great, unearned, unmerited gift given, what would be the response back?

A christian understands this grace. That's why they obey.

Not because they have to, but out of love for Jesus in His grace given.

Obedience in loving God to have rewards in heaven, not to get to heaven in the first place.
who
teaches that we can do what we want ,? I mean literally teaches those exact words ?Like literally " you can do what you want ? if that's not what you meant , why did you say it that way ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#29
I think what some are teaching is that obedience is how we are saved .
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
#31
I agree that obeying the commandments is not ;legalism I have seen some on here teach that it is and some are so focused on obedience and not having sin they lack the love of God but we will never perfectly follow the law nor should we burden ourselves when we fail to because Jesus became the law for us
Obedience to Jesus, and His teachings while here on earth IS NOT "trying to follow the Law of the First Testament." That's the mistake so many here make when they set upon those of us who understand obedience is an act of love for Jesus/God BECAUSE of our salvation by grace through faith. The New Covenant Law is the Law of FAITH! As described by the Apostle Paul. It is not the Law of Moses from the Old Testament.

If people could understand this, they would be a whole lot closer to God and Scripture Truths. Salvation is the FIRST step, not the last. Sanctification is needed for a believer to have that "personal relationship" with God that He desires to have with us. Sanctification comes through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

This is why blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin. It will NOT be forgiven in this world, or the next Scripture says. BECAUSE the Holy Spirit is the VERY ESSENCE OF GOD! Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is blaspheme of the very essence of God!

I make NO effort to follow the Laws of Moses and the Jewish Religion. Those Laws were fulfilled by Jesus!

During His Ministry, Jesus gave us many things/commandments, and these are those I strive daily to obey!
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
#32
I didn't read past the first paragraph because it's just not true. Every Christian who believes God and loves God, rejects sin and tries to be good and do what God has said is good and tried not to do what God says is bad. Your premise is just not true so... What ever try again or don't or something or nothing what ever.
Stay here a bit longer and you will discover how wrong your statement is. No, seriously. Just say around awhile. You would THINK what you say WOULD be true, but, based on many, many comments/teachings here.....it is not.

There are those here who believe that they ONLY have to repent and ask for forgiveness ONCE. After that....ALL SINS THEY COMMIT for the rest of their lives, and any disobedience they commit is also not counted/held against them. They believe they NEVER AGAIN ask God to forgive them of any sins they commit. Others believe nothing they do matters, or has any effect upon their receiving eternal life because they were "chosen from the beginning." Nothing they can do about it. They will receive eternal life regardless of how they live.

Reading one paragraph and then denouncing the Post is like reading one Paragraph of Scripture and denouncing all of Scripture. Or, reading one paragraph of a History Book and denouncing all of History. Limited education/knowledge is not a good way to achieve understanding.

I do not care if you disagree with me. That is your right. BUT if you believe a person can spend their lives living in disobedience to Jesus/God and still receive eternal life............then I surely disagree with you.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
#33
I think what some are teaching is that obedience is how we are saved .
I have NEVER said that, and would disagree with anyone who does. As for what is taught here.............just stick around............you have not been here that long yet.......

You will be amazed at what some try to teach here
 
Nov 11, 2018
113
29
18
#34
OBEDIENCE is not LEGALISM

There are far too many people who believe that being obedient to the Commandments of Jesus equates to Leagelism, and/or one trying to do works to receive Salvation. Both of these views are so very wrong.

Obedience is now, always has been, and always will be required by God. To believe that one can live in disobedience to God and still receive eternal life borders on insanity in my opinion.
Far too many Scriptures reveal the Truth that obedience is required by God for any sane person to argue against or ignore. No true believer can live in disobedience to God. Any person who is living in disobedience to God has a serious issue facing them come the day of Judgement.

John 14:15 - If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Acts 5:29 - Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

1 Peter 1:14 - As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

1 John 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John 14:31 - But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

1 John 3:24 - And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

Luke 6:46 - And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

John 8:51 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Romans 2:6
who will render to each person according to his deeds:

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God.

1 Peter 1:17
If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

Psalms 62:12
And lovingkindness is Yours, O Lord,
For You recompense a man according to his work.

Colossians 3:25
For he who does wrong will receive the consequences of the wrong which he has done, and that without partiality.

1 Corinthians 3:8
Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

Given all these Scriptures, it is easy to say "are you not trying to earn salvation through works?" Yes, that is an easy question to ask, but it is asked out of ignorance.

Obedience and good works are NOT to earn Salvation: they are a FRUIT of Salvation. It is because of our Salvation, and adoption into the family of God, and having become heirs of the Promise that we are obedient and seek to do the good works that He HAS PURPOSED us for.

When people understand this, then possibly people can walk in obedience to Jesus/God, and not according to the flesh. And, NO, doing this in the heart won't cut it. Our deeds and words are required to be in obedience to God!
Salvation is just the FIRST STEP in our life with Jesus, not the end. Sanctification and Justification are a process that one must continue to seek throughout their life walk with Jesus. John 3:16 says "believeth" and this is translated to be a "continuous act" of believing. Not a one time thing. This is complimented by the words of Jesus when He said:

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I simply feel sorry for those who believe they only have to repent and confess their sinfilled lives and accept Jesus as Lord of their lives ONE TIME; and, after that, they can just go on living. Believing that they never again have to worry about any sin/disobedience they commit. They will surely be rudely surprised come the day they stand before He who will judge.

Again:
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

OBEDIENCE IS NOT LEGALISM....IT IS LOVE!
__________________________________________________________________________________

1. For one thing: Jesus taught us that God came for the sinners. Why might that be? For it was explained, that they see their errors, while the pious can stand about pointing fingers and harassing others while they think they stand free.
2. Obedience IS important... hence, the reformation, but it gives us no right to cast stones, unless we find ourselves free of sin to cast stones.
3. Arrogance is one of the "worst" sins. In thinking we have no sin to judge others.... which is always a lie... for all of us have sinned. Thus, forgiveness is the way. If we can help even one... through confession and uplifting them to the Holy One, then we do a great service... as opposed to condemning and hating and casting others to death... when we could have otherwise saved them.
4. Are we give our "talents" to save... or using our "talents" to bury others.
5. If we are the "light," then shall we not bring light with out words? Or should we shroud our own light and become darkness to others?
6. Shall we use our pain to destroy? For wide is the gate that leads to destruction. For we have all had enough pain to become destruction. Or shall we use our light to shine upon others and spread light?

I could go on and on. But is scripture not enough? to tell us that we shall live by peace, and kindness, and forgiveness and light?
However, there are some who will not hear, but then we are taught to judge the spirits? Look and find. Just ask God as you go... not ask yourself what pain you've been through and how you want to destroy. Ask, how can I save a life? not kill it! Godspeed!
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
#35
I agree with you. IF you are trying to suggest I am guilty of those things you wrote, then you do not know me.

However, there are some who will not hear, but then we are taught to judge the spirits? Look and find. Just ask God as you go... not ask yourself what pain you've been through and how you want to destroy. Ask, how can I save a life? not kill it! Godspeed!

True. But none of this was included in my OP.
 
Nov 11, 2018
113
29
18
#36
I agree with you. IF you are trying to suggest I am guilty of those things you wrote, then you do not know me.

However, there are some who will not hear, but then we are taught to judge the spirits? Look and find. Just ask God as you go... not ask yourself what pain you've been through and how you want to destroy. Ask, how can I save a life? not kill it! Godspeed!

True. But none of this was included in my OP.
Oh, bless your heart! I was not judging you. I was simply asking the questions that seem to plague man, burden man, and cause man to err through the years. I am so sorry, if you thought I was attacking you. It's not so. I just hear a question, and I also hear (in my heart), God telling me to share things that many don't see. Sounds crazy to many I'm sure. But it's not. It just depends on how long we "seek," I'd say. And when we seek long enough, it seems we build a relationship with the Holy One. And when we build a relationship, it seems He gives us words to say that may not even be pointed to the one we speak with immediately, but with many who need to hear. I hope you can, in part, understand a lil of what I say. And I hope you the best. For God-seeking people are the best people. :)
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#37
I do not care if you disagree with me. That is your right. BUT if you believe a person can spend their lives living in disobedience to Jesus/God and still receive eternal life............then I surely disagree with you.
Obedience is an evidence that a person believes what they say they believe. Actually it does not prove a whole lot as there are unbelievers that make quite a religious appearance but have never been converted by grace through faith into Christ.

There are so many levels of disobedience that it is impossible to count them.

If obedience is mixed with formalism does it become legalism?

The saving grace of God is so wonderful that I cannot dare to limit it's to save and keep all those who have received it. The parable of the sower we have seed falling onto different soils but only one does not germinate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Nov 11, 2018
113
29
18
#39
Obedience is an evidence that a person believes what they say they believe. Actually it does not prove a whole lot as there are unbelievers that make quite a religious appearance but have never been converted by grace through faith into Christ.

There are so many levels of disobedience that it is impossible to count them.

If obedience is mixed with formalism does it become legalism?

The saving grace of God is so wonderful that I cannot dare to limit it's to save and keep all those who have received it. The parable of the sower we have seed falling onto different soils but only one does not germinate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
And yet, if we only seek to philosophize... in hearing our own thoughts... but never find a way to heal another ... and help them through a cause... then what good have we done.
It's like burying a talent. I used to do that. Til God taught me to try my best to help... instead of searching for my own knowledge. Of course, I could not help ... until God showed me knowledge. You see, it's a strange thing... but it's how if we seek, we shall find. But then, when we truly find, we can give back. Then we can become the light among the dark. And hopefully, spread our light :)