Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[Truth7t7]

I suppose you also believe that the AoD has yet to occur?

Gods words speak very clear, the Antichrist Of Daniel seen below, will be present on earth until the (Consummation) "The End", a (Future Event) Unfulfilled!

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Absolutely]

His Name And His Fathers Name?

You Dont Present What You Are Quoting, It Appears To Be (Add To Gods Words), A Child's Paraphrase

Revelation 14:1-3KJV
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Revelation 22:18-19KJV
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Then in the same spirit of staying true to the word of God,why do postribs not include the rapture verses,and erroneously force fit Jesus coming on white horses in power with billions of believers into mat 25, acts 2, and rev 14?

 

[cv5]

There may be three "raptures" or removal of His Own before it is all done, and there is supporting scripture for each, we know the love of God is so great that He would ask His only begotten Son to live His sinless life and die for our sin and He did so, and that love is so great were any one of us the only person on earth He would have done this.
So often we think it is "this or that" when in His complete full knowledge it is "both and more".
No wonder He is VERY clear we are not to lean on our own understanding and in ALL our ways acknowledge Him that He may make our path straight.

I see very little if any of that in this thread.
best wishes

Yes there is very strong reason to believe that that the "first resurrection" so-called consists of A MINIMUM of 3 groups.......

But a more in-depth astute analysis of the Scripture reveals even MORE groups being enumerated. And we can't forget about the Old Testament saints. Where do they fit in?

Very good summary here at this link. Definitely an easy read and very scholarly.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/revelation-20/order-of-resurrection.html

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Look at the four horsemen and what happens to Earth's inhabitants.
You are way off because billions are beheaded right away in the trib.
Then to further diminish your position, those marters are said to come from GREAT TRIBULATION.
IOW the entire 7 years is great tribulation

I do not deny that many ppl DIE even as early as the SECOND SEAL WARS (where I've said "the SEALS" are equivalent to "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" spoken of in Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 [where even here, in v.11, it says, "There will be both great earthquakes, and famines and pestilences in different places. There will also be fearful sights and great signs from heaven" as part of those BoBPs, EARLY in the 7-Trib-yrs [i.e. at the SEALS point in the chronology]).

But I'm going with what Jesus says regarding "GREAT tribulation" and its placement (in the chronology), and that was His saying, "THEN shall be GREAT tribulation" (when He spoke of the "AOD" point in the chronology, which is at the MID-point... and what follows that ["WHEN you... shall SEE" (v.15)... "THEN... FLEE" (v.16)... "FOR THEN shall be GREAT tribulation..." (v.21)].)


I am IN NO WAY saying that "nothing" happens to the earth's inhabitants in the SEALS (even the FIRST FOUR SEALS) point in the chronology, because a lot of very negative things most certainly DO take place then, too!!

 

[Absolutely]

I suppose you also believe that the AoD has yet to occur?

Historical view is intellectually dishonest.
Observe the absurditys by that camp "explaining" the flying scorpions, the hailstones of fire, and the mark of the beast.

Almost comical

 

[Absolutely]

I do not deny that many ppl DIE even as early as the SECOND SEAL WARS (where I've said "the SEALS" are equivalent to "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" spoken of in Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 [where even here, in v.11, it says, "There will be both great earthquakes, and famines and pestilences in different places. There will also be fearful sights and great signs from heaven" as part of those BoBPs, EARLY in the 7-Trib-yrs [i.e. at the SEALS point in the chronology]).

But I'm going with what Jesus says regarding "GREAT tribulation" and its placement (in the chronology), and that was His saying, "THEN shall be GREAT tribulation" (when He spoke of the "AOD" point in the chronology, which is at the MID-point... and what follows that ["WHEN you... shall SEE" (v.15)... "THEN... FLEE" (v.16)... "FOR THEN shall be GREAT tribulation..." (v.21)].)

Again, it is called the great tribulation early on.
Correctly so due to the great tribulation that is accompanying the 4 horsemen.

Yep the entire 7 year deal is definitely great great tribulation.

 

[Absolutely]

Great great great tribulation

 

[Absolutely]

Great great great great tribulation.
Lol

 

[cv5]

I do not deny that many ppl DIE even as early as the SECOND SEAL WARS (where I've said "the SEALS" are equivalent to "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" spoken of in Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 [where even here, in v.11, it says, "There will be both great earthquakes, and famines and pestilences in different places. There will also be fearful sights and great signs from heaven" as part of those BoBPs, EARLY in the 7-Trib-yrs [i.e. at the SEALS point in the chronology]).

But I'm going with what Jesus says regarding "GREAT tribulation" and its placement (in the chronology), and that was His saying, "THEN shall be GREAT tribulation" (when He spoke of the "AOD" point in the chronology, which is at the MID-point... and what follows that ["WHEN you... shall SEE" (v.15)... "THEN... FLEE" (v.16)... "FOR THEN shall be GREAT tribulation..." (v.21)].)


I am IN NO WAY saying that "nothing" happens to the earth's inhabitants in the SEALS (even the FIRST FOUR SEALS) point in the chronology, because a lot of very negative things most certainly DO take place then, too!!

Yes thanks for the reminder.
The GT is specific and concurrent with the breaking of the covenant and the A of D which occurs precisely 42 months after Rev 6:2.
Judgments upon generally the entire world get even worse for Israel in particular. A focused attack by Satan his armies and minions in a vain attempt to destroy all Israel.

 

[Truth7t7]

Then in the same spirit of staying true to the word of God,why do postribs not include the rapture verses,and erroneously force fit Jesus coming on white horses in power with billions of believers into mat 25, acts 2, and rev 14?

No such thing as a (Pre-Trib) Rapture found in scripture, a fictional fairy tale taught by John N. Darby, and promoted by Adulterer C.I. Scofield in his 1909 reference bible, its that simple.

Jesus Christ returns (Immediately After The Tribulation) in Fire and Final judgement

The resurrection of all, catching up of believers, the existing heavens and earth are dissolved by this fire in judgement, as the wicked are caught in this for eternity (The Lake Of Fire) Judgement is complete, as the New Heavens, Earth, And Jerusalem are revealed to the righteous for ever and ever all in (The Twinkling Of An Eye)

Eternity Begins!

 

[cv5]

Again, it is called the great tribulation early on.
Correctly so due to the great tribulation that is accompanying the 4 horsemen.

Yep the entire 7 year deal is definitely great great tribulation.

The tribulation definitely accelerates in severity and frequency. I can't believe that any Christian would choose to believe that they need to go through it when they are promised that they won't.

Such is the state of the Sardis/Laodicean Church of today I suppose. Totally clueless. I can't tell you how many rank-and-file pastors I've dealt with recently that have no idea.....absolutely no concept of end time eschatology. In fact according to them life and Christianity is all about here and now. And is getting worse the present day Church generally speaking refuses to deal with end time eschatology at all. No warnings to be vigilant at all times to watch as Jesus says. No exhortation to be at all times prepared for His soon coming.

Nope.....None of that scary stuff. It's just a big party nowadays. A party at Jesus' expense.

Incredible really. Incredibly tragic. Incredibly fearful that so many will not be ready when Jesus comes at a time they do not expect. And the door is shut on the five foolish virgins.

 

[cv5]

No such thing as a (Pre-Trib) Rapture found in scripture, a fictional fairy tale taught by John N. Darby, and promoted by Adulterer C.I. Scofield in his 1909 reference bible, its that simple.

Jesus Christ returns (Immediately After The Tribulation) in Fire and Final judgement

The resurrection of all, catching up of believers, the existing heavens and earth are dissolved by this fire in judgement, as the wicked are caught in this for eternity (The Lake Of Fire) Judgement is complete, as the New Heavens, Earth, And Jerusalem are revealed to the righteous for ever and ever all in (The Twinkling Of An Eye)

Eternity Begins!

I think you're missing a lot there buddy. There are tons of facts even on this thread alone that demolish your position.

 

[Radius]

There is an interesting documentary/video shown on Vimeo called Before the Wrath. You have to pay to watch it or download it. It likens the rapture to a Jewish Wedding, the church being the Bride of Christ and Jesus being the groom. I thought it was quite interesting and it explains the rapture more clearly.

Thank you for the video recommendation. It was quite compelling! I just finished it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yes thanks for the reminder.
The GT is specific and concurrent with the breaking of the covenant and the A of D which occurs precisely 42 months after Rev 6:2.
Judgments upon generally the entire world get even worse for Israel in particular. A focused attack by Satan his armies and minions in a vain attempt to destroy all Israel.

Yes, and this also corresponds with that which was stated in Daniel 12:1,6-7 "And at that time... and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [Israel (singular nation), being the context here] even to that same time..." where vv.6-7 provide the time-stamp, saying, "[how long?]... it shall be for a time, times, and an half" (referring to the SECOND HALF of the 7-Trib yrs / 70th Wk, and where Daniel is resurrected ['to stand again' on the earth] at the END of those particular day-amounts in this CONTEXT, per v.13)



Again... I had tacked onto my post AFTER Abs had grabbed it to quote it (adding the bracketed comment here, at the bottom line):

TDW: I am IN NO WAY saying that "nothing" happens to the earth's inhabitants in the SEALS (even the FIRST FOUR SEALS) point in the chronology, because a lot of very negative things most certainly DO take place then, too!! [which are EQUIVALENT to "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" (Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11 !!) ... MANY MORE follow on from THOSE ]

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes there is very strong reason to believe that that the "first resurrection" so-called consists of A MINIMUM of 3 groups.......

But a more in-depth astute analysis of the Scripture reveals even MORE groups being enumerated. And we can't forget about the Old Testament saints. Where do they fit in?

Very good summary here at this link. Definitely an easy read and very scholarly.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/revelation/revelation-20/order-of-resurrection.html

Your Claims Of Multiple Resurrections Are (False) As Scripture Below Clearly Teaches

There Is "One" Future Resurrection Of "All", This Takes Place On "The Last Day" At The Time Of "Final Judgement"

(The Last Day Resurrection, Judgement)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(The Last Day Resurrection)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(The Last Day Judgement)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[cv5]

There may be three "raptures" or removal of His Own before it is all done, and there is supporting scripture for each, we know the love of God is so great that He would ask His only begotten Son to live His sinless life and die for our sin and He did so, and that love is so great were any one of us the only person on earth He would have done this.
So often we think it is "this or that" when in His complete full knowledge it is "both and more".
No wonder He is VERY clear we are not to lean on our own understanding and in ALL our ways acknowledge Him that He may make our path straight.

I see very little if any of that in this thread.
best wishes

Just to let you know I don't agree with absolutely everything in the link that I provided.
For example the graves that were opened immediately after the Crucifixion could be OT saints Christians or combination of both nobody really knows.

BTW...Matthew states very clearly that their bodies were resurrected right after the crucifixion death event, at the same time of the splitting of the temple veil. But these showed themselves to many in Jerusalem only after the resurrection of Christ.....very curious.

 

[Truth7t7]

The tribulation definitely accelerates in severity and frequency. I can't believe that any Christian would choose to believe that they need to go through it when they are promised that they won't.

Such is the state of the Sardis/Laodicean Church of today I suppose. Totally clueless. I can't tell you how many rank-and-file pastors I've dealt with recently that have no idea.....absolutely no concept of end time eschatology. In fact according to them life and Christianity is all about here and now. And is getting worse the present day Church generally speaking refuses to deal with end time eschatology at all. No warnings to be vigilant at all times to watch as Jesus says. No exhortation to be at all times prepared for His soon coming.

Nope.....None of that scary stuff. It's just a big party nowadays. A party at Jesus' expense.

Incredible really. Incredibly tragic. Incredibly fearful that so many will not be ready when Jesus comes at a time they do not expect. And the door is shut on the five foolish virgins.

The Church Will Be Present On Earth During The Great Tribulation, And Will Witness The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ, As Luke Clearly Teaches Below, A (Fact)

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"[re: resurrection] But EACH [Hekastos G1538 (a word meaning, "of MORE THAN TWO")] in his own ORDER [tagmati G5001 (a word meaning, "rank, division, an ordered series")]" 1 Corinthians 15:23.

What does "EACH in his own RANK / an ordered SERIES" mean, in this context? (that only ONE is yet remaining?? ["one RANK"??])


[links]
-- Strong's Greek: 1538. ἕκαστος (hekastos) -- each, every (biblehub.com)
-- Strong's Greek: 5001. τάγμα (tagma) -- that which has been arranged in order, spec. a division, rank (biblehub.com)


And why are the "2W" resurrected at the "6th Trumpet / 2nd Woe" point in the chronology, at a time-slot distinct from all others??




"Blessed and holy is the one HAVING A PART IN the resurrection, the FIRST" (i.e. "the resurrection OF LIFE"), Rev20:6, is not saying "at this point in the chronology is the FIRST TIME anyone's been 'resurrected'," ... because the "2W" will have ALREADY been resurrected BEFORE this point in the chronology. (yet, THEY TOO are "having A PART IN the resurrection, the FIRST" b/c they ascend up into Heaven, a thing not experienced by the "unsaved/lost" )

 

[Truth7t7]

Just to let you know I don't agree with absolutely everything in the link that I provided.
For example the graves that were opened immediately after the Crucifixion could be OT saints Christians or combination of both nobody really knows.

BTW...Matthew states very clearly that their bodies were resurrected right after the crucifixion death event, at the same time of the splitting of the temple veil. But these showed themselves to many in Jerusalem only after the resurrection of Christ.....very curious.

Your claim is false, (Bodies) were raised from the dead, just as Lazarus and Tabitha were raised from the dead, that later died a physical death

The (Bodies) rose after (His Resurrection) not (Their Resurrection)

Matthew 27:52-53KJV
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[cv5]

Yes, and this also corresponds with that which was stated in Daniel 12:1,6-7 "And at that time... and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [Israel (singular nation), being the context here] even to that same time..." where vv.6-7 provide the time-stamp, saying, "[how long?]... it shall be for a time, times, and an half" (referring to the SECOND HALF of the 7-Trib yrs / 70th Wk, and where Daniel is resurrected ['to stand again' on the earth] at the END of those particular day-amounts in this CONTEXT, per v.13)



Again... I had tacked onto my post AFTER Abs had grabbed it to quote it (adding the bracketed comment here, at the bottom line):

Thanks for that.......very helpful.
You know I'm trying to determine with some kind of certainty when the Old Testament saints will be resurrected. There's not a lot to go on. But Daniel chapter 12 seems to be the richest vein of Scriptural proof.

It's been a good day so far. I appreciate everyone's efforts thank you.