Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[ewq1938]

Nope.

ALL "Son of man cometh / coming / shall come / coming of / etc" speak of His Second Coming to the earth

I guess you aren't aware that the GWTJ does not occur on the Earth? Christ must go to where it happens which results in a "coming" that is not a reference to his second coming which is to the Earth.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Earth and heaven fleeing away means this is a place away from both heaven and Earth which means Christ would have to leave Earth and "come" to this new place. Your error is not knowing this and assuming all "comings" refer to the Earthly second coming.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

So, this coming is Christ coming to the place where the final judgment will take place. Even the dead must be taken to this place after they are resurrected as we see them arriving from hell, death and the sea in Revelation 20.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Your error is not knowing this and assuming all "comings" refer to the Earthly second coming.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

I didn't say "all comings"; I said all "SON OF MAN coming / shall come / cometh / comes / coming of / etc" refers to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH just judge/govern/reign (on/over the earth).



This passage (Matt25:31-34 and its CONTEXT) corresponds precisely with Matthew 19:28, which says,

"... in the regeneration, WHEN the Son of man shall sit in/on the throne of his glory, ye [the disciples] also shall sit on twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel"

(that is in the "promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age" commencing upon His "RETURN" there)




[Matt19:28 ^ then corresponds also with Lk22:30 "so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel," and so on...]

 

[ewq1938]

I didn't say "all comings"; I said all "SON OF MAN coming / shall come / cometh / comes / coming of / etc" refers to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH just judge/govern/reign (on/over the earth).

You are wrong that all son of man comings are the second coming to the Earth. He has one other coming when he leaves Earth to arrive at the place where the GWTJ will occur. All who will be present there must have a "coming" to that location so that's Christ, his angels, the unsaved dead and God the Father.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You are wrong that all son of man comings are the second coming to the Earth. He has one other coming when he leaves Earth to arrive at the place where the GWTJ will occur. All who will be present there must have a "coming" to that location so that's Christ, his angels, the unsaved dead and God the Father.

Did you see the part I added to that post:




This passage (Matt25:31-34 and its CONTEXT) corresponds precisely with Matthew 19:28, which says,

"... in the regeneration, WHEN the Son of man shall sit in/on the throne of his glory, ye [the disciples] also shall sit on twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel"

(that is in the "promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age" commencing upon His "RETURN" there)




[Matt19:28 ^ then corresponds also with Lk22:30 "so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel," and so on...]



____________

That is not speaking of what follows the "GWTj" point in time (which, btw, corresponds with the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23]... which TWO "PUNISH" words are separated by a TIME-PERIOD [one at His Second Coming to the earth, the second at the GWTj point in time])

 

[ewq1938]

The throne is mobile. Right now it's in heaven, at the second coming it will be on the Earth and at the GWTJ it will go there.

The first thing I need you to recognize is that the GWTJ does not happen in heaven or on the Earth. Do you understand that?

Did you see the part I added to that post:




This passage (Matt25:31-34 and its CONTEXT) corresponds precisely with Matthew 19:28, which says,

"... in the regeneration, WHEN the Son of man shall sit in/on the throne of his glory, ye [the disciples] also shall sit on twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel"

(that is in the "promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age" commencing upon His "RETURN" there)




[Matt19:28 ^ then corresponds also with Lk22:30 "so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel," and so on...]



____________

That is not speaking of what follows the "GWTj" point in time.

 

[GaryA]

The phrase 'resurrection body' is somewhat of a misnomer. Most often, when people say it, what they really mean is 'glorified body'.

I believe the Bible indicates that the dead are "raised" first ("brought back to life" but not yet 'glorified'); then, ALL are "changed" together at the same time.

The 'change' is the "glorification" part of the process. And, everyone ends up with the same kind/type of 'glorifed' body.

The word 'resurrected' really only means "brought back to life"; Lazarus was 'resurrected'.

However, when talking about The Resurrection as an 'event', we tend to include the idea of our receiving a 'glorified' body - especially because it had a part in the resurrection of Jesus.

When we speak of 'resurrection and rapture' - as an 'event' - we actually mean - 'resurrection' + "glorification" + 'rapture' - in a catch-all sort of way that covers the dead and the living at the time of the event.

As a side-effect of the way we use the word, it has come to have a "split-definition" that includes both "how it applies to the dead" and "how it applies to the living" - albeit, it really only applies to the dead.

The 'change', however, applies to all (1 Corinthians 15:51) and is the common characteristic of the resurrection 'event' between the dead and the living.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

May the readers compare:

"And WHEN the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, THEN He shall sit upon His throne of glory.

"... in the regeneration, WHEN the Son of man shall sit in/on the throne of his glory, ye [the disciples] also shall sit on twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel"

The throne is mobile. Right now it's in heaven, at the second coming it will be on the Earth and at the GWTJ it will go there.

"SON OF MAN" is his "earthly designation"

(Matt25:31-34 AND Matt19:28, etc etc [other passages referring to "SON OF MAN cometh...[/etc]"])

 

[ewq1938]

The phrase 'resurrection body' is somewhat of a misnomer. Most often, when people say it, what they really mean is 'glorified body'.

It's also referred to as a spiritual body.

I believe the Bible indicates that the dead are "raised" first ("brought back to life" but not yet 'glorified'); then, ALL are "changed" together at the same time.

The dead don't have to wait for that. They are raised back to life in that body:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[GaryA]

Fact,the dead in Christ rise and are caught up into the sky before the living.

The dead in Christ are raised and then ALL are caught up together.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The dead in Christ are raised and then ALL are caught up together.

GaryA! We AGREEEEEEE!

(I can AGREE with that sentence!!)






[that is indeed what the text states!!]


I would differ with you slightly though... where it says we shall all be changed... it goes on to talk about "THIS corruptible" (the DEAD in Christ) and "THIS mortal" (the we which are ALIVE and remain)... where one says, "must PUT ON incorruption" (that happens when they "rise" first) and the other says "must PUT ON immortality" (that pertains to the "ALIVE" ones)... before we are THEN "caught up TOGETHER"

 

[ewq1938]

The dead in Christ are raised and then ALL are caught up together.

Both of you are wrong. The dead resurrect in heaven and Christ brings them with him, 1Th_4:14 . Only the living are raptured UPWARDS to meet Christ and the formerly dead as they go DOWNWARDS from heaven with all meeting in the clouds.

 

[GaryA]

Jesus Christ returns,resurrection of all, catching up of believers, the heavens and earth are (Dissolved) by the Lords fire, judgement complete,wicked lake of fire, righteous eternal New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem

All In The Twinkling Of An Eye

The only thing that happens in the twinkling of an eye is the 'change' (1 Corinthians 15:51-52).

 

[ewq1938]

"SON OF MAN" is his "earthly designation"

No, it isn't. He is called that while in heaven.

Mat_26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

He is the Son of man anywhere that he is. It's just one of his many titles.

 

[GaryA]

Both of you are wrong. The dead resurrect in heaven and Christ brings them with him, 1Th_4:14 . Only the living are raptured UPWARDS to meet Christ and the formerly dead as they go DOWNWARDS from heaven with all meeting in the clouds.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

Read it carefully.

 

[ewq1938]

Read it more carefully than you are suggesting, decades ago. It doesn't say the dead are with the living. It only says the living are raptured. The dead were already with Christ because he brings them with him as the scripture says.

The formerly dead DESCEND with Christ to the clouds and the living ASCEND to those same clouds. The classic "meet in the middle" concept.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

Read it carefully.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

No, it isn't. He is called that while in heaven.
Mat_26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

What I'm saying is, that "SON OF MAN" is His designation when He is intending to come to the earth to "judge/govern/rule," as in the following passage:

Daniel 7:13-14 -

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


This [setting ^ ] is NOT referring to the "GWTj" point in the chronology.

Sure He's shown in Heaven, here (by the words "Son of man"), but it is clearly with the "intention toward" His "rule/governing/reign" ON THE EARTH (earthly MK age--"the throne of His glory"--Compare Isaiah 24:23 "shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients [/elders] GLORIOUSLY," etc)




[this corresponds with the other "RETURN" passage in the gospels... Luke 19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN" ("to receive for himself a kingdom, AND TO RETURN")... that is, "RETURN" to the earth]

He is the Son of man anywhere that he is. It's just one of his many titles.

It speaks of His "earthly-designation" (not saying He is never referred to [by that] it in passages explaining the "intention toward" that very "earthly-located" designation [said in "heaven"-located contexts])

 

[Truth7t7]

The only thing that happens in the twinkling of an eye is the 'change' (1 Corinthians 15:51-52).

Jesus Christ At His Coming, The Cometh The End, In The Twinkling Of And Eye, Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory, Eternity Begins, Judgement Complete.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-55KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The Last Day Resurrection, And Final Judgement, In The Twinkling Of An Eye.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[ewq1938]

What I'm saying is, that "SON OF MAN" is His designation when He is intending to come to the earth to "judge/govern/rule,"

Nope. He is called the Son of man no matter where he is. I showed an example where in heaven he is called the Son of man. Another one:

Act_7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

 

[GaryA]

Read it more carefully than you are suggesting, decades ago. It doesn't say the dead are with the living. It only says the living are raptured. The dead were already with Christ because he brings them with him as the scripture says.

The formerly dead DESCEND with Christ to the clouds and the living ASCEND to those same clouds. The classic "meet in the middle" concept.

1 Thessalonians 4:

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

verse 14: God brings with Him the souls of the dead in Christ - to be "reunited" with their resurrected bodies.

verse 17: What does "shall be caught up together with them" mean to you?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Nope. He is called the Son of man no matter where he is. I showed an example where in heaven he is called the Son of man. Another one:
Act_7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

SO DID I (did you even read my post??):


Daniel 7:13-14 -

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.


This [setting ^ ] is NOT referring to the "GWTj" point in the chronology.

____________

[end quoting EXCERPT from my previous post]