Not By Works
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One point of disagreement. The cleansing of our heart/spirit is the only way our actions can truly change, and you can only walk right before God if your heart is clean
Sanctification of life begins in the heart. Therefore sanctification of life is primarily a matter of heart, not of body.
Sanctification of life begins in the heart. Therefore sanctification of life is primarily a matter of heart, not of body.
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Hi VCO,
I think you are wrong to say what you have said above to @oyster67
Yes you and I disagree with his doctrinal stance of losing salvation. But to suggest he has twisted scripture is not correct. To twist scripture for me is to do so to personal gain and he does not do that.
He could say the same of us.
He interprets his doctrinal bent based on his research of the Bible just like we do.
Is to believe that one could lose salvation as opposed to not losing salvation a born again issue? I do not think so. Both sides seek to follow Jesus and encourage others to as well.
This arguement has been going on and on.
You talk about the kindred spirit. I cannot see he falls foul of that.
I saw earlier that he told @eternally-gratefull that he loved him. And they carried on the convo.
Did Peter have the kindred spirit you mention?
Maybe define kindred spirit for me at least.
Love you brother but I just have post the above.
I think you are wrong to say what you have said above to @oyster67
Yes you and I disagree with his doctrinal stance of losing salvation. But to suggest he has twisted scripture is not correct. To twist scripture for me is to do so to personal gain and he does not do that.
He could say the same of us.
He interprets his doctrinal bent based on his research of the Bible just like we do.
Is to believe that one could lose salvation as opposed to not losing salvation a born again issue? I do not think so. Both sides seek to follow Jesus and encourage others to as well.
This arguement has been going on and on.
You talk about the kindred spirit. I cannot see he falls foul of that.
I saw earlier that he told @eternally-gratefull that he loved him. And they carried on the convo.
Did Peter have the kindred spirit you mention?
Maybe define kindred spirit for me at least.
Love you brother but I just have post the above.
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Thank you, brother.
Matthew
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Matthew
22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
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E
No. He left home because he did
Not think he needed dads help
Anymore
Again John said whoever wins has
Never seen God or known him whoever is born if God can’t sin because his spirit is in him
You can not resolve this passage with a person who knew God and is now sinning (habitually) as you claim they can
Not think he needed dads help
Anymore
Again John said whoever wins has
Never seen God or known him whoever is born if God can’t sin because his spirit is in him
You can not resolve this passage with a person who knew God and is now sinning (habitually) as you claim they can
When I lapsed, it was bad. I lived in multiple sins habitually. Drugs, alcohol, sexual sin, and others. Now I can interpret this one of two ways.
A. I was not truly saved when I walked away and the thing I thought was my return was my conversion.
B. I was saved, fell hard, and returned.
The verse on the one born of God cannot sin refers to habitual sin, but I think it also refers to a continuance therein. (See iterative present tense). In other words, a believer may fall into terrible and grievous sins, but it is not in their new nature to remain there.
A. I was not truly saved when I walked away and the thing I thought was my return was my conversion.
B. I was saved, fell hard, and returned.
The verse on the one born of God cannot sin refers to habitual sin, but I think it also refers to a continuance therein. (See iterative present tense). In other words, a believer may fall into terrible and grievous sins, but it is not in their new nature to remain there.
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Ok confused.
Sinner saved sinner saved.
That suggests sinner saved but then not but then they are based on your next line repentance matters it's just not a one-time thing.
So you know my doctinal belief concerning salvation.
So here are my views based on your above quote.
Repentance is a one time thing.
John 16:8-9
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
The sin being unbelief in Jesus and as a result
Romans 10:9
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved..
It's not just to confession but the raising from the dead and THE LORD JESUS.
As a result
Romans 5:1-2
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Ephesians 1:5
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Adopted by God as his children.
A one time even based the above verses.
Now as children of God when we sin we confess our sin. That's not repentance. The meaning of repentance and confession have totally different meanings.
To confess is to agree you screwed up. It's a reconciliation as such, restore the relationship. It's not repentance. The first thing the prodical son did was to confess his sin. Peeing it up against the wall and all that.
The prodical does not need to repent because he has not lost faith in Jesus. Like a dumb sheep he has gone astray, the sheep that Jesus goes after.
Now one has to ask the question, would he go after the sheep? Would he go after the person who has not truly repented of the sin of unbelief?
Not so sure. After all the Holy Spirit came to convict the world of its sin.
I know the parable of the prodigal son has to do with sinners and those who considered themselves righteous aka Pharisees and teachers of law.
But for me this was pre cross and when Jesus rose again it is different. It's not the law saves us but Jesus.
I know we will not agree with each other as many theologians haven't over the last 2000 years and will do until Jesus comes back.
But for me we always need to encourage people to seek Jesus and be like him.
Never reject someone who seems to be not like Jesus, just dig in and ask what is going on their lives.
In the 36 years of being a believer only twice have I ever had to leave them alone.
The first one fell foul of Romans 5-6. Using grace as a license to sin. I quoted the verses and they rejected it. I asked them why they were doing it because believe it or not it is not unusual people to indulge in sexual sin as a result of past experiences, hurt pain wanting to be loved and accepted.
The second one wanted to be baptized but I want sure he was a genuine beliver so I quoted the 10 verse and asked them if they believed that. He said no, asked him if he wanted to he said no. Sorry mate but I cannot Baptise you but please keep spending time together. Never saw him again.
Sinner saved sinner saved.
That suggests sinner saved but then not but then they are based on your next line repentance matters it's just not a one-time thing.
So you know my doctinal belief concerning salvation.
So here are my views based on your above quote.
Repentance is a one time thing.
John 16:8-9
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
The sin being unbelief in Jesus and as a result
Romans 10:9
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved..
It's not just to confession but the raising from the dead and THE LORD JESUS.
As a result
Romans 5:1-2
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Ephesians 1:5
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Adopted by God as his children.
A one time even based the above verses.
Now as children of God when we sin we confess our sin. That's not repentance. The meaning of repentance and confession have totally different meanings.
To confess is to agree you screwed up. It's a reconciliation as such, restore the relationship. It's not repentance. The first thing the prodical son did was to confess his sin. Peeing it up against the wall and all that.
The prodical does not need to repent because he has not lost faith in Jesus. Like a dumb sheep he has gone astray, the sheep that Jesus goes after.
Now one has to ask the question, would he go after the sheep? Would he go after the person who has not truly repented of the sin of unbelief?
Not so sure. After all the Holy Spirit came to convict the world of its sin.
I know the parable of the prodigal son has to do with sinners and those who considered themselves righteous aka Pharisees and teachers of law.
But for me this was pre cross and when Jesus rose again it is different. It's not the law saves us but Jesus.
I know we will not agree with each other as many theologians haven't over the last 2000 years and will do until Jesus comes back.
But for me we always need to encourage people to seek Jesus and be like him.
Never reject someone who seems to be not like Jesus, just dig in and ask what is going on their lives.
In the 36 years of being a believer only twice have I ever had to leave them alone.
The first one fell foul of Romans 5-6. Using grace as a license to sin. I quoted the verses and they rejected it. I asked them why they were doing it because believe it or not it is not unusual people to indulge in sexual sin as a result of past experiences, hurt pain wanting to be loved and accepted.
The second one wanted to be baptized but I want sure he was a genuine beliver so I quoted the 10 verse and asked them if they believed that. He said no, asked him if he wanted to he said no. Sorry mate but I cannot Baptise you but please keep spending time together. Never saw him again.
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Jesus told the believers at Ephesus to repent. I think a believer can repent of things as God reveals things that are not pleasing, but that is not the same as repentance UNTO Salvation is a one and eternally done thing.
I disagree with oyster about being saved a second time. The believer who sins and confesses is not saved a second time.
I disagree with oyster about being saved a second time. The believer who sins and confesses is not saved a second time.
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I know you and I will never agree doctrinally.
You are entranched in your doctine as I am.
And my assumption is that it will not change for either of us.
The truth is for me is that works do not save.
This thread is about not by works.
Many quote the verses from Corinthians 3 concerning works.
But for me this is not works of the flesh but basically building on the foundation of Jesus. Preaching and teaching.
Those are the works that will go through the fire.
You are entranched in your doctine as I am.
And my assumption is that it will not change for either of us.
The truth is for me is that works do not save.
This thread is about not by works.
Many quote the verses from Corinthians 3 concerning works.
But for me this is not works of the flesh but basically building on the foundation of Jesus. Preaching and teaching.
Those are the works that will go through the fire.
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Or a third way
You struggled with a few sins. Which we all do. If we say we have no sin we are deceived
Living in sin would be like before were were saved. We did nothing righteous not one thing
We all have our sin issue. Some is anger some pride some lack of faith some road rage etc etc.
You struggled with a few sins. Which we all do. If we say we have no sin we are deceived
Living in sin would be like before were were saved. We did nothing righteous not one thing
We all have our sin issue. Some is anger some pride some lack of faith some road rage etc etc.
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