Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.
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Ephesians 3 (New King James Version)
6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs (to the Jews), of the same body, (the Body of Christ Yeshua, His Church) and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,
The only truth of a kind of replacement theology, is the replacement of the early Jerusalem united Jewish and Gentile Church ( https://bit.ly/EarlyJerusalemChurch ), by the solely Gentile Roman Church, who drove millions of Jewish Christians away from the Christian faith ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christian ), to bring about the rift of nearly 1700 years, as driven between Jew and Gentile by satan, https://bit.ly/Christianzionism truly is not biblical in accordance with Romans 11's one olive tree with Christ Yeshua as the root of His one Body of Christ Church, consisting of both Jewish and Gentiles members as fellow heirs and partakers of God's promise of Ephesians 3:6 of a unified body of Jewish and Gentile believers as fellow heirs in Christ Yeshua.
Christ Yeshua establishes his Gentile and Jewish united Israelite Church in Matthew 16:18, with the Jewish Israelite Peter as its bedrock. Christ Yeshua addresses his entirely Jewish Israelite apostleship of His Church, before his ascension into heaven in Acts 1:7 saying that only at a future time, which day and hour is only known by the Father (which will only happen after Christ Yeshua's return at His second coming), will He restore the Kingdom of Israel (as prophesied in Ezekiel 37) under His Kingship here on earth (as revealed later by John in Revelations to be during His Millennial reign of Revelation 20 here on earth). He further commands his entirely Jewish Israelite apostleship of His Church, to first bring the Gospel to Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria and the whole earth alike, before the end will come (Matthew 24:14).
Matthew 16 (New King James Version)
18And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not [g]prevail against it.
Acts 1 (New King James Version)
Prologue
1The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2until the day in which [a]He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, 3to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.
The Holy Spirit Promised
4And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Jesus Ascends to Heaven
9Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Ephesians 3 (New King James Version)
The Mystery Revealed
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs (to the Jews), of the same body, (the Body of Christ Yeshua, His Church) and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,
The only truth of a kind of replacement theology, is the replacement of the early Jerusalem united Jewish and Gentile Church ( https://bit.ly/EarlyJerusalemChurch ), by the solely Gentile Roman Church, who drove millions of Jewish Christians away from the Christian faith ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christian ), to bring about the rift of nearly 1700 years, as driven between Jew and Gentile by satan, https://bit.ly/Christianzionism truly is not biblical in accordance with Romans 11's one olive tree with Christ Yeshua as the root of His one Body of Christ Church, consisting of both Jewish and Gentiles members as fellow heirs and partakers of God's promise of Ephesians 3:6 of a unified body of Jewish and Gentile believers as fellow heirs in Christ Yeshua.
Christ Yeshua establishes his Gentile and Jewish united Israelite Church in Matthew 16:18, with the Jewish Israelite Peter as its bedrock. Christ Yeshua addresses his entirely Jewish Israelite apostleship of His Church, before his ascension into heaven in Acts 1:7 saying that only at a future time, which day and hour is only known by the Father (which will only happen after Christ Yeshua's return at His second coming), will He restore the Kingdom of Israel (as prophesied in Ezekiel 37) under His Kingship here on earth (as revealed later by John in Revelations to be during His Millennial reign of Revelation 20 here on earth). He further commands his entirely Jewish Israelite apostleship of His Church, to first bring the Gospel to Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria and the whole earth alike, before the end will come (Matthew 24:14).
Matthew 16 (New King James Version)
18And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not [g]prevail against it.
Acts 1 (New King James Version)
Prologue
1The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2until the day in which [a]He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, 3to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.
The Holy Spirit Promised
4And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Jesus Ascends to Heaven
9Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Ephesians 3 (New King James Version)
The Mystery Revealed
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
Romans 11 (New King James Version)
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
1I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3“Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”
Israel’s Rejection Not Final
11I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12Now if their [c]fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [d]fatness of the olive tree, 18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
1I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3“Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”
Israel’s Rejection Not Final
11I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12Now if their [c]fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and [d]fatness of the olive tree, 18do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, [e]goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34“For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35“Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Ignore the truth of one Body of Christ Yeshua's Church of Romans 11 and Ephesians 3:6 with all the time before Christ Yeshua's second coming at your disposal - it is however contrary and ignorant to us Christians great commission through the last words of Christ Yeshua to his apostles before He departed for Heaven at His ascension (which great commission included ALL NATIONS, including the unification of Jews in Jerusalem and Judea into Christ Yeshua's Christian Body, His Church):
Acts 1 (New King James Version)
8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea (yes, Christ Yeshua's last words here on earth in His great commission did include those Jews in Jerusalem and Judea to be part of Christ Yeshua's unified Body of believers, His Christian Church) and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Ephesians 3 (New King James Version)
6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs (to the Jews), of the same body, (the Body of Christ Yeshua, His Church) and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,
and Romans 11's one olive tree (with grafted-in cultivated Jewish branches and grafted-in wild Gentile branches) Body of Christ's Christian Church, under the unifying olive tree root of Christ Yeshua's Kingship.
Acts 1 (New King James Version)
8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [c]witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea (yes, Christ Yeshua's last words here on earth in His great commission did include those Jews in Jerusalem and Judea to be part of Christ Yeshua's unified Body of believers, His Christian Church) and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
Ephesians 3 (New King James Version)
6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs (to the Jews), of the same body, (the Body of Christ Yeshua, His Church) and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,
and Romans 11's one olive tree (with grafted-in cultivated Jewish branches and grafted-in wild Gentile branches) Body of Christ's Christian Church, under the unifying olive tree root of Christ Yeshua's Kingship.
When you say "living among Christians unaware of their sons-of-Jacob/Israel identity," are you saying (those you're referring to) "are Christians"? (just seeking clarification here).
How are you viewing these passages?
--Luke 22:30 - [said to "the 12"] "so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel."
--Matthew 19:28 - " And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man shall sit down upon His throne of glory, you having followed Me, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel."
[COMPARE with Matt25:31-34, and context, for its TIMING (i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth)]
How are you viewing these passages?
--Luke 22:30 - [said to "the 12"] "so that you may eat and may drink at My table in My kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel."
--Matthew 19:28 - " And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man shall sit down upon His throne of glory, you having followed Me, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel."
[COMPARE with Matt25:31-34, and context, for its TIMING (i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth)]
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Well, I can say that I [for one, as a "pre-tribber"] do not believe that 100% of the "saints" (who will have come to faith IN/DURING/WITHIN the trib yrs, FOLLOWING "our Rapture") will be martyred/killed/beheaded in the trib...
I believe there are many Scriptures speaking of "still-living saints" at the time of His "RETURN" to the earth [/2nd Coming to the earth] at Rev19... I've listed them before, but basically (among those passages, are) the 8-10 "BLESSED" passages speaking of that very thing / of that time-slot / "still-living saints" at that point, who will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing/bearing children... Passages like: Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED," Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7] "BLESSED," Matthew 24:44,46 "BLESSED" [and its parallel in Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... "BLESSED"], Matthew 25:31-34 "BLESSED," [Mk11:10 "BLESSED" (related), as well as Matt23:39 and its parallel], etc... I believe Lk21:36 also applies to that time-period (rather than it being a "Rapture" verse), IOW, it is "instruction" to those finding themselves IN the trib years, with the end result of their following that "instruction" is that they are said they will... "and to stand before [in a judicial sense] the Son of man" ('Son of man' being His earthly designation... to 'judge/rule/govern/reign'--meaning, at His "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19 time-slot [not "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" point in the chronology]). So, different ppl saved at a distinct TIME-PERIOD... and those who are "still-living [saints]" at the point of His "RETURN" to the earth, will be the only ones capable of reproducing/bearing children (though they themselves [as "[still-living] saints / believers" "shall never die," according to Jesus' words in John 11:26... "Believest thou this?")
[p.s. the ones who will be "beheaded" are not only of the Jews/Israel, but from every nation / Gentiles... all over the world--at least, that's how I understand it... Rev13:5-7 / Dan7:20-25 does not specify "only Jews/Israel" but "SAINTS"]
I believe there are many Scriptures speaking of "still-living saints" at the time of His "RETURN" to the earth [/2nd Coming to the earth] at Rev19... I've listed them before, but basically (among those passages, are) the 8-10 "BLESSED" passages speaking of that very thing / of that time-slot / "still-living saints" at that point, who will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing/bearing children... Passages like: Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED," Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7] "BLESSED," Matthew 24:44,46 "BLESSED" [and its parallel in Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... "BLESSED"], Matthew 25:31-34 "BLESSED," [Mk11:10 "BLESSED" (related), as well as Matt23:39 and its parallel], etc... I believe Lk21:36 also applies to that time-period (rather than it being a "Rapture" verse), IOW, it is "instruction" to those finding themselves IN the trib years, with the end result of their following that "instruction" is that they are said they will... "and to stand before [in a judicial sense] the Son of man" ('Son of man' being His earthly designation... to 'judge/rule/govern/reign'--meaning, at His "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19 time-slot [not "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" point in the chronology]). So, different ppl saved at a distinct TIME-PERIOD... and those who are "still-living [saints]" at the point of His "RETURN" to the earth, will be the only ones capable of reproducing/bearing children (though they themselves [as "[still-living] saints / believers" "shall never die," according to Jesus' words in John 11:26... "Believest thou this?")
[p.s. the ones who will be "beheaded" are not only of the Jews/Israel, but from every nation / Gentiles... all over the world--at least, that's how I understand it... Rev13:5-7 / Dan7:20-25 does not specify "only Jews/Israel" but "SAINTS"]
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^ EDIT TO ADD -
[p.s. the ones who will be "beheaded" (during the last 1260 days) are not only of the Jews/Israel, but from every nation / Gentiles... all over the world--at least, that's how I understand it... Rev13:5-7 / Dan7:20-25 does not specify "only Jews/Israel" but "SAINTS" (/those having come to faith IN/DURING/WITHIN the trib years [FOLLOWING "our Rapture"]--for "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23] will not be present on the earth during that future, specific, LIMITED time period... OUR time for "persecutionS and tribulationS" [and even BEHEADINGS] is NOW and throughout the past 2000 yrs!--We are not waiting for that future, specific, LIMITED time period in order to experience it!
)]
[p.s. the ones who will be "beheaded" (during the last 1260 days) are not only of the Jews/Israel, but from every nation / Gentiles... all over the world--at least, that's how I understand it... Rev13:5-7 / Dan7:20-25 does not specify "only Jews/Israel" but "SAINTS" (/those having come to faith IN/DURING/WITHIN the trib years [FOLLOWING "our Rapture"]--for "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23] will not be present on the earth during that future, specific, LIMITED time period... OUR time for "persecutionS and tribulationS" [and even BEHEADINGS] is NOW and throughout the past 2000 yrs!--We are not waiting for that future, specific, LIMITED time period in order to experience it!
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Oh brother. You fell for the 10 lost tribes heresy did you? There are dozens of explicit Scriptures that indicate that there are no such thing as 10 lost tribes. Both Old Testament and New Testament. It's too late now I will list them for you tomorrow.
My friend you are unfortunately ensnared in a host of various heresies. Believe me I can commiserate with you. I was ensnared much the same many many years ago in my early pilgrimage. It took decades to battle free of these thickets of thorns and thistles. Believe me you can do the same.
And I have to add to my encouraging you to continue to study the Scriptures and seek the truth a dire warning: You are wrong and dreadfully so. I know you are wrong because I was there once.
And I think my God that He had mercy on me sufficient to free me from those snares. I never gave up......and the Lord met my need.
My friend you are unfortunately ensnared in a host of various heresies. Believe me I can commiserate with you. I was ensnared much the same many many years ago in my early pilgrimage. It took decades to battle free of these thickets of thorns and thistles. Believe me you can do the same.
And I have to add to my encouraging you to continue to study the Scriptures and seek the truth a dire warning: You are wrong and dreadfully so. I know you are wrong because I was there once.
And I think my God that He had mercy on me sufficient to free me from those snares. I never gave up......and the Lord met my need.
If I may, let me quote a small passage, and then pose a few questions to you, in view of what you've put:
Rev14:3b-4 - [note: I do NOT believe this passage means they've been "RAPTURED"... or by other means have "left the earth". No.]
3 [...] And no one was able to learn the song, except the one hundred forty-four thousand having been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they who have not been defiled with women; for they are pure, these following the Lamb wherever He shall go. These have been redeemed out from men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth no lie was not found; they are blameless.a
1) do you believe these are the SAME "144,000" that chpt 7 had referred to earlier?
2) if so, do you acknowledge this passage is calling them "firstfruit" also?
3) I'm assuming you also acknowledge (what I pointed out before) that James 1:18 says, "a KIND of firstfruit / a CERTAIN firstfruit" meaning there is more than one [kind]... since you've mentioned here, both Jesus and GENTILES are referred to by the word "firstfruit" (in different texts)... am I reading you right?
Do you think the Member (Abs) could have been referring to the reference to the "144,000" found in Revelation 14:4 as being "firstfruit" also (which group I personally believe is the SAME group as in chpt 7:3... how about you? What is your view on that?)
Rev14:3b-4 - [note: I do NOT believe this passage means they've been "RAPTURED"... or by other means have "left the earth". No.]
3 [...] And no one was able to learn the song, except the one hundred forty-four thousand having been redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they who have not been defiled with women; for they are pure, these following the Lamb wherever He shall go. These have been redeemed out from men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth no lie was not found; they are blameless.a
1) do you believe these are the SAME "144,000" that chpt 7 had referred to earlier?
2) if so, do you acknowledge this passage is calling them "firstfruit" also?
3) I'm assuming you also acknowledge (what I pointed out before) that James 1:18 says, "a KIND of firstfruit / a CERTAIN firstfruit" meaning there is more than one [kind]... since you've mentioned here, both Jesus and GENTILES are referred to by the word "firstfruit" (in different texts)... am I reading you right?
Do you think the Member (Abs) could have been referring to the reference to the "144,000" found in Revelation 14:4 as being "firstfruit" also (which group I personally believe is the SAME group as in chpt 7:3... how about you? What is your view on that?)
Yeah... "IN CHRIST" being the key phrase in this text ^ ... :
--"... having been CREATED *in Christ Jesus* ..." - Eph2:10
--"...to CREATE *in Himself* One [altogether] NEW Man out of..." - Eph2:15
--"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" - [note Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]
[note: Eph1:10 is not speaking of "in this PRESENT age" as the rest of the epistle IS speaking to]
--"... having been CREATED *in Christ Jesus* ..." - Eph2:10
--"...to CREATE *in Himself* One [altogether] NEW Man out of..." - Eph2:15
--"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" - [note Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]
[note: Eph1:10 is not speaking of "in this PRESENT age" as the rest of the epistle IS speaking to]
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The post-tribulation folks have a problem on their hands to explain how those in the Millennium can have children or will need to farm if they are all living in their glorified bodies. Their only "out" is to claim that it's only Jews who enter the millennium kingdom. That goes against many other scriptures that point out the fact that there will also be many other nations and peoples on the earth at that time, Zech. 14 for example.
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Heresy? Where would you say are the eight and two half tribes of Ephraim today?
There is a standing open invitation at https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...nce-their-assyrian-captivity-of-740bc.195657/ to tell us of there whereabouts, if you know, yet no one came up with any explanation?
You certainly know that Jacob/Israel had 12 sons, and that his son Joseph inherited a double portion through Joseph's sons' two half tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim?
You certainly know that the former united monarchic kingdom of Israel under the former leadership of king David and Solomon were split into the southern Jewish kingdom of Judah, under leadership of Rehoboam, son of Solomon the Judahite Jew in Jerusalem; and the other part of the split kingdom being the northern Ephraimite kingdom of Israel, under leadership Jeroboam, son of Nebat the Ephraimite Israelite in Samaria?
Heresy? Where would you say are the eight and two half tribes of Ephraim today, that rejected Judaism in its entirety, more than 2730 years ago, prior to them being taken into captivity by the Assyrians, and the final siege of their northern kingdom of Israel's capital of Samaria in 722BC?
God brought punishment about for the Ephraimite-Israelites, with the siege of their capital Samaria in 722BC, which preceded their 2730 years of captivity into the Gentiles:
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity : "The captivities began in approximately 740 BCE (or 733/2 BCE according to other sources).[1] In 722 BCE, ten to twenty years after the initial deportations, the ruling city of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, Samaria, was finally taken by Sargon II after a three-year siege started by Shalmaneser V."
Between the years of 1991 AC and 2009 AC (there were no year O AC), Ephraimite-Israelites have once again come to know their identity after 2730 years of captivity among the Gentiles ( 2730 years of Ephraimite-Israelite captivity among the Gentiles = 390 years of God's punishment of Ezekiel 4:5 x God's sevenfold punishment of Leviticus 26:18, 21 & 24 due to the Ephraimite-Israelite's non-repentance ).
2730 years - 740BC = Year of 1991 after Christ (there were no year 0 AC)
2730 years - 733/2BC = Year of 1998/9 after Christ (there were no year 0 AC)
2730 years - 722BC = Year of 2009 after Christ (there were no year 0 AC)
Leviticus 26 (ESV)
17 I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. 18 And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, 19 and I will break the pride of your power, and I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. 20 And your strength shall be spent in vain, for your land shall not yield its increase, and the trees of the land shall not yield their fruit. 21 "Then if you walk contrary to me and will not listen to me, I will continue striking you, sevenfold for your sins. 22 And I will let loose the wild beasts against you, which shall bereave you of your children and destroy your livestock and make you few in number, so that your roads shall be deserted. 23 "And if by this discipline you are not turned to me but walk contrary to me, 24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I myself will strike you sevenfold for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute vengeance for the covenant. And if you gather within your cities, I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
Ezekiel 4 (ESV)
3 And you, take an iron griddle, and place it as an iron wall between you and the city; and set your face toward it, and let it be in a state of siege, and press the siege against it. This is a sign for the house of Israel. 4 "Then lie on your left side, and place the punishment of the house of Israel upon it. For the number of the days that you lie on it, you shall bear their punishment. 5 For I assign to you a number of days, 390 days, equal to the number of the years of their punishment. So long shall you bear the punishment of the house of Israel. 6 And when you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side, and bear the punishment of the house of Judah. Forty days I assign you, a day for each year.
There is a standing open invitation at https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...nce-their-assyrian-captivity-of-740bc.195657/ to tell us of there whereabouts, if you know, yet no one came up with any explanation?
You certainly know that Jacob/Israel had 12 sons, and that his son Joseph inherited a double portion through Joseph's sons' two half tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim?
You certainly know that the former united monarchic kingdom of Israel under the former leadership of king David and Solomon were split into the southern Jewish kingdom of Judah, under leadership of Rehoboam, son of Solomon the Judahite Jew in Jerusalem; and the other part of the split kingdom being the northern Ephraimite kingdom of Israel, under leadership Jeroboam, son of Nebat the Ephraimite Israelite in Samaria?
Heresy? Where would you say are the eight and two half tribes of Ephraim today, that rejected Judaism in its entirety, more than 2730 years ago, prior to them being taken into captivity by the Assyrians, and the final siege of their northern kingdom of Israel's capital of Samaria in 722BC?
God brought punishment about for the Ephraimite-Israelites, with the siege of their capital Samaria in 722BC, which preceded their 2730 years of captivity into the Gentiles:
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity : "The captivities began in approximately 740 BCE (or 733/2 BCE according to other sources).[1] In 722 BCE, ten to twenty years after the initial deportations, the ruling city of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, Samaria, was finally taken by Sargon II after a three-year siege started by Shalmaneser V."
Between the years of 1991 AC and 2009 AC (there were no year O AC), Ephraimite-Israelites have once again come to know their identity after 2730 years of captivity among the Gentiles ( 2730 years of Ephraimite-Israelite captivity among the Gentiles = 390 years of God's punishment of Ezekiel 4:5 x God's sevenfold punishment of Leviticus 26:18, 21 & 24 due to the Ephraimite-Israelite's non-repentance ).
2730 years - 740BC = Year of 1991 after Christ (there were no year 0 AC)
2730 years - 733/2BC = Year of 1998/9 after Christ (there were no year 0 AC)
2730 years - 722BC = Year of 2009 after Christ (there were no year 0 AC)
Leviticus 26 (ESV)
17 I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. 18 And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins, 19 and I will break the pride of your power, and I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. 20 And your strength shall be spent in vain, for your land shall not yield its increase, and the trees of the land shall not yield their fruit. 21 "Then if you walk contrary to me and will not listen to me, I will continue striking you, sevenfold for your sins. 22 And I will let loose the wild beasts against you, which shall bereave you of your children and destroy your livestock and make you few in number, so that your roads shall be deserted. 23 "And if by this discipline you are not turned to me but walk contrary to me, 24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I myself will strike you sevenfold for your sins. 25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute vengeance for the covenant. And if you gather within your cities, I will send pestilence among you, and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
Ezekiel 4 (ESV)
3 And you, take an iron griddle, and place it as an iron wall between you and the city; and set your face toward it, and let it be in a state of siege, and press the siege against it. This is a sign for the house of Israel. 4 "Then lie on your left side, and place the punishment of the house of Israel upon it. For the number of the days that you lie on it, you shall bear their punishment. 5 For I assign to you a number of days, 390 days, equal to the number of the years of their punishment. So long shall you bear the punishment of the house of Israel. 6 And when you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side, and bear the punishment of the house of Judah. Forty days I assign you, a day for each year.