Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

I think Crossnote said it best.

he had no fruit, which means he had no faith,

either that or he was being chastened for his sin, like God does all his children,

salvation can not be lost, you have been given so many passages of scripture which prove this fact. Yet you want to harp on one passage, like most legalists do.

The fact that he walked out of the presence of the Master into the free air of the city is proof positive that he had faith in the forgiveness shown him, else he would have remained cowering before the Master in unbelief, right or wrong?

 

[Edify]

Unsaved people can have a knowledge OF Jesus Christ without knowing Him personally through the new birth.

I guess you just happen to miss the " they escaped the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ" part. That's a shame.

Only saints can be entangled in sin?
Peter is referring to false teachers/enemies of the Gospel. We see good examples of such in the theological liberal churches who deny the Master who bought them.

I see also you skipped an important word: they are entangled again in sin. Another shame.

Your answer seems to deliberately side step the scripture. That's a shame of Biblical proportions.
I apologize for thinking you were a spiritually mature stand up guy. I thought you were different from the rest.
I promise I will try to remember to leave you alone.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I guess you just happen to miss the " they escaped the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ" part. That's a shame.


I see also you skipped an important word: they are entangled again in sin. Another shame.

Your answer seems to deliberately side step the scripture. That's a shame of Biblical proportions.
I apologize for thinking you were a spiritually mature stand up guy. I thought you were different from the rest.
I promise I will try to remember to leave you alone.

You should see how they contort the Unmerciful Servant into pretzel theology. Clearly, he was freely forgiven his entire debt and had faith he was forgiven which he demonstrated by walking out into the streets a free man. But, by refusing to allow his Master's spirit of kindness and mercy and forgiveness to enable him to do the same, he forfeited his salvation and wound once again without hope. Peter says "the last state of them will be worse than the beginning" which is clearly shown here, but is denied by the die hards.

 

[crossnote]

I guess you just happen to miss the " they escaped the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ" part. That's a shame.

I had said "Unsaved people can have a knowledge OF Jesus Christ without knowing Him personally through the new birth.

I color coded yours and mine to help things out.

I see also you skipped an important word: they are entangled again in sin. Another shame.

Tsk, tsk, the Scripture doesn't say 'sin' but pollutions of the world.

2 Peter 2:20 (KJV) For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
(once again color coded).

Your answer seems to deliberately side step the scripture. That's a shame of Biblical proportions.
I apologize for thinking you were a spiritually mature stand up guy. I thought you were different from the rest.
I promise I will try to remember to leave you alone.

Well, I try not to play the game of 'gotcha' with brothers and sisters in the Lord or throw out veiled insults. In any case @CherieR seemed satisfied with the answer I gave, I'm sorry you didn't.

 

[Magenta]

The fact that he walked out of the presence of the Master into the free air of the city is proof positive that he had faith in the forgiveness shown him, else he would have remained cowering before the Master in unbelief, right or wrong?

People who do not respect authority do not cower before it.

 

[VCO]

As hesitant as I am to speak for another member, I don’t have any reservations saying that not only has Mr Crossnote been here for a literal dog’s age, with thousands of posts to read about what he believes, but I can’t recall a single instance where I cringed on one of his posts dealing with doctrine.


That’s not to say I agree with every single issue with him. But there isn’t a person I know, here or elsewhere, that is in exact agreement with me on everything.

I do not remember him, but I had seven strokes, and four of them was last year. CROSSNOTE, I apologize, for thinking you were a new member. I had one stroke the first of the year 2020, and it was BAD, because it totally robbed me of my computer knowledge, and had to learn it all over again. Later on some of it came back but not all.

However, I do stand by the biblical process of Discernment, WHICH IS NOT JUDGING.

To say, "You are going to hell, because I saw you sin yesterday."; That is Judging.

To say, "You are presenting a false doctrine.", is not Judging, but rather that is Discernment.

Philippians 1:9-11 (NIV)
9 And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight,
10 so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ,
11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--to the glory and praise of God.

1 Corinthians 12:10 (KJV)
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; . . .

Ephesians 5:8-10 (HCSB)
8 For you were once darkness, but now ⌊you are⌋ light in the Lord. Walk as children of light—
9 for the fruit of the light ⌊results⌋ in all goodness, righteousness, and truth—
10 discerning what is pleasing to the Lord.


I apologize, please forgive me.

 

[crossnote]

I apologize, please forgive me.

Apology accepted.

 

[crossnote]

You should see how they contort the Unmerciful Servant into pretzel theology. Clearly, he was freely forgiven his entire debt and had faith he was forgiven which he demonstrated by walking out into the streets a free man. But, by refusing to allow his Master's spirit of kindness and mercy and forgiveness to enable him to do the same, he forfeited his salvation and wound once again without hope. Peter says "the last state of them will be worse than the beginning" which is clearly shown here, but is denied by the die hards.

Let me ask you a simple question...Have you been reconciled to God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The fact that he walked out of the presence of the Master into the free air of the city is proof positive that he had faith in the forgiveness shown him, else he would have remained cowering before the Master in unbelief, right or wrong?

The mere fact John said those where were amount us that left and are no longer among us have never really been of us, is all the proof I need,

either the man was being chastened in prison.

or he was never saved,

there are no other options, My God gives eternal life not conditional life,

to me the man is like the ones spoken of in scripture who claim they believe in God, but that belief never turned to faith. He though he was saved and he could go do whatever he wanted because he got a get out of jail free card.

my Bible tells me these wolves in sheep’s clothing are licentious men and women who turn the grace of God unto licentiousness, these people have never been saved,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess you just happen to miss the " they escaped the world through the knowledge of Jesus Christ" part. That's a shame.


I see also you skipped an important word: they are entangled again in sin. Another shame.

Your answer seems to deliberately side step the scripture. That's a shame of Biblical proportions.
I apologize for thinking you were a spiritually mature stand up guy. I thought you were different from the rest.
I promise I will try to remember to leave you alone.

Anyone who walks into a group of born again believers who are walking with God and fellowships with them have left the world,

it does not mean they have been saved, they are still required to repent and have saving faith in Christ,

mere belief never saved anyone,

 

[PennEd]

This was a one of those passages that greatly disturbed me when I was a less mature Christian.
2 peter 2
Deceptions of False Teachers
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

But I love ALL of God's Word.
I truly believed in THE Gospel unto Salvation and was born again, but it wasn't until yrs later that the revelation came to me from the Holy Spirit that Jesus paid for ALL my sin, not just past sin, and that He would NEVER forsake or leave me, and that all MY trying, with all MY strength, to NOT sin, thinking in some way this kept me Saved, not only resulted in me committing MORE sin, but was hurtful and offensive to the One that actually died for me, and Sealed me unto the Day of Redemption.

This revelation not only, through the Holy Spirit resulted in far less sin, something my trying NEVER did, but also opened up some of these seemingly difficult passages for understanding.

So let's break this one down a bit.

 

[PennEd]

Deceptions of False Teachers
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

First thing to realize, is this whole Chapter is dealing with false teachers and prophets. NOWHERE does it say these are born again Children of God.
In fact, the end of the Chapter calls them "DOGS".

So if you want to say these were regenerated, saved people, you have to believe they were born again, children of God, that did things to morph from a child into a dog.

Verse 20 says they had the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. They had the knowledge of who Jesus is, but they didn't have Jesus Himself. I know SCORES of people that know who Jesus is, but actively reject Him. Jesus spoke of these people:
John 2
The Discerner of Hearts
23 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name when they saw the signs which He did. 24 But Jesus did not commit Himself to them, because He knew all men, 25 and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.

These people love signs. They love the power and influence they can have through a false gospel.

Note what these "teachers" teach. That the liberty and freedom we have in Christ allows us to indulge our flesh, especially WITH them!

No. NONE of these were ever saved to begin with. They had the knowledge of Jesus, but Jesus NEVER KNEW them. Knowing them in the sense of making them a new creation in Him.

You are NOT DOGS dear brothers and sisters. You are CHILDREN of God!

 

[CherieR]

This was a one of those passages that greatly disturbed me when I was a less mature Christian.
2 peter 2
Deceptions of False Teachers
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

But I love ALL of God's Word.
I truly believed in THE Gospel unto Salvation and was born again, but it wasn't until yrs later that the revelation came to me from the Holy Spirit that Jesus paid for ALL my sin, not just past sin, and that He would NEVER forsake or leave me, and that all MY trying, with all MY strength, to NOT sin, thinking in some way this kept me Saved, not only resulted in me committing MORE sin, but was hurtful and offensive to the One that actually died for me, and Sealed me unto the Day of Redemption.

This revelation not only, through the Holy Spirit resulted in far less sin, something my trying NEVER did, but also opened up some of these seemingly difficult passages for understanding.

So let's break this one down a bit.

When love welcomes you in, it is without reservation and no strings attached. God accepts his own children just as they are always. ❤️

 

[star]

If God did not accept us as we are, we would never be accepted. Why? Because we can never, ever clean ourselves up without the "blood of Jesus" to wash away all sin and defilement.

 

[VCO]

Let me ask you a simple question...Have you been reconciled to God?

OH YES!

I will abbreviate my Testimony, because it is so long. The strokes left me with absent minded SPELLING deficiency, which I compensate for with an old Cell Phone, on speak to Type mode. I mean even simple words like FEAR, (below), I had to use the old Cell Phone, to find the spelling of FEAR. As a result, it now takes me at least 3 times as much time, to make a Post.

I used to think that because I was baptized as an infant, and took up space on a pew, that I was saved. BUT I found out the last week of 1977 that I was NOT. On Christmas Eve, my wife of only 6 months, announced she want a divorce because I could not afford to buy her the thing she wanted in life. SOME REASON! I spun into a deep depression that caused me to attempt suicide THREE times the very next week, the last week of 1977. The first to times I had a pistol against my Temple, with the TRIGGER half Pulled, and relished the thought that she would be very sorry when I did it. I did not care if I hurt my Papers or Brother and Sister, I just wanted to end it all, and CEASE TO EXIST. All of a sudden Both Times, and OVER-WHELMING FEAR. A Fear WAY BEYOND what a mass murderer could put in me, with a knife to my TROAT. It cause me to drop the Pistol both time, the first time it fell on the BED, and the second Time it fell on the floor, but it did not go off.

Two nights later, I did I did try suicide a third time. I saw a road Crew pouring a VERY LOOSE GRAVEL on a dirt road one mile from my house. I when to a bar, and proceeded to get as drunk is I could, three times as drunk as I ever have been. I knew when I saw them pouring that loose Gravel, it was the MOST DANGEROUS SURFACE TO RIDE A DIRT BIKE ON. When the bar closed, I when home to leave my Motorcycle Helmet there, then when out to the Loose Gravel road. As I approached it, I TAUNTED GOD, shouting, "If you want to take my life, you can do it anywhere you want on the next mile." Now I am ashamed to even mention that part of my testimony.

I hit that mile FULL TROTTLE, about 65 m.p.h. on a Suzuki 185. About the have ways threw the Mile and the BIKE NEVER DID WOBBLE, I started to back is off, "think this cannot be", AND instantly back to FULL THROTTLE. I hit the end of that mile and back on Pavement, and stopped with me left side of the bike facing the Gravel Road, and Starred at the Gravel Road, for about 5 minutes, trying to figure out why the BIKE did not wobble out of control.

I when home, sat up until I was sobber, around 4:00 in the morning, (did not look at the clock) and started towards to bedroom, as I entered the BEDROOM, I realized I CANNOT RIDE A BIKE LIKE THAT, EVEN IF I WAS SOBER, AND I WAS MORE DRUNK THAN I HAD EVER BEEN. GOD HAD TO HAVE REACHED DOWN AND HELD MY BIKE STEADY, as if to SAY TO ME, "NO YOU DON"T, I have a purpose for your life."
INSTANTLY WAVE, AFTER WAVE, AFTER WAVE OF TREMENDOUS GUILT FOR MY WHOLE LIFESTYLE, WASHED OVER ME, AND KEEP IT UP FOR AN HOUR OR MORE. I was on my knees, crying more than a baby, crying out, "FORGIVE ME, please FORGIVE ME." Later I fell Prounce, and then the HOLY SPIRIT GAVE ME A PRAYER THAT I HAVE NEVER HEARD BEFORE. "Lord, Please Forgive Me, Please Forgive Me. If you have a purpose for my life, you will have to come into my life and control it, because I am making a total mess of it." I had never heard that prayer or something similar to it, in my life in a Lutheran Church. It was a SURRENDER to HIM COMPLETELY, and I knew it, out of a willing, LOVING HEART. AND I KNEW I WOULD NEVER TAKE IT BACK. Still the TREMENDOUS GUILT CONTINUED, because I knew exactly how SINFUL I had BEEN, and could not believe HE could forgive me, because I had been too bad.

Something happened that night, that I usually do not put into my testimony. I had a Vision, or maybe a DREAM, but it was WAY MORE VIVID than any dream I have ever had. But I think it was a VISION. I was instantly transported on my knees at the foot of the CROSS. STILL CRYING MORE THAT A BABY, STILL BEGGING FOR FORGIVENESS, Raising my Arms Up to HIM, and realizing that every one of my SINS was like adding a one pound weight to is ARMS, PULLING DOWN ON THOSE NAILS . . . . IN HIS WRISTS ? ? ? Every image of JESUS on the CROSS had always put the NAILS in HIS HANDS. And every Church that I had heard a sermon about the NAILS, were in HIS HANDS. AND IT was about 10 years LATER, that I heard a sermon by Dr. John MacArthur, that told me the JEWS considered the Wrists to be Part of the Hands, and that is why I think it was a VISION.

As I continued to CRY, and beg HIM, "PLEASE FORGIVE ME!"; I saw the blood drip and fall, and it fell on both of my forearms,
And IT WAS WARM ! ! !

AND THAT IS WHERE THE VISION ENDED.
BUT, I KNEW ALL OF MY SINS, PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE WERE ABSOLUTELY FORGIVEN ON THAT CROSS.

Did HE take control of my life ? ? ?
Oh my YES! He lead me to move from Nebraska to California, and I TRUSTED HIM.
He Led be to become involved is Prison Ministry, and I TRUSTED HIM.
He Led me to move to the Coast, and I TRUSTED HIM.
He Led me to Volunteer to become a Volunteer Chaplain, with no BIBLE COLLEGE, and I TRUSTED HIM.
He Led me to Become a Volunteer Chaplain, in the HOLE, in the end of the line Max Security Prison, and I TRUSTED HIM.
He Led me to Teach Sermons, and I TRUSTED HIM.
He put in on my heart to gather the VERSES, I would talk about, and HE would give me the message HE wanted me to teach,
AND I TRUSTED HIM.

It was NOT ME doing that Ministry, IT WAS CHRIST IN ME DOING THAT MINISTRY.

 

[VCO]

RECONCILED TO GOD
​

Romans 5:10 (HCSB)
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (HCSB)
18 Everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19 That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us.

 

[crossnote]

Romans 5:10 (HCSB)
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, we will be saved by His life!

This is why in post #150068 I asked Phoneman if 'he had been reconciled?'

There are only two choices...either

1. 'Yes', in which case 'one will be saved'
or
2. 'No', in which case they won't be saved.

There is no in between.

 

[Edify]

Sinners in the church don't escape the world. Sinners in the church are still worldly. "Escaping the world" can only mean salvation.
No amount of steering around it will change that.
Don't worry, I'm not going to sit here & argue until I'm reported.
You folks have a nice day.

 

[crossnote]

Sinners in the church don't escape the world. Sinners in the church are still worldly. "Escaping the world" can only mean salvation.
No amount of steering around it will change that.
Don't worry, I'm not going to sit here & argue until I'm reported.
You folks have a nice day.

There was a mixed multitude that escaped Egypt and there's a mixed multitude that sit in the visible church that are still worldly.
You have a nice day too.

 

[peldom10]

JESUS SAYS THERE IS! I BELIEVE JESUS not you.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Romans 8:28-30 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.


We will BELIEVE THE BIBLE, and not anybody's false theology.

U are out of context.
Here we can loose our salvation...but not after God says we are saved...which occurs after judgement which is after death..
Be reminded what....ed means. History. If that is the case then God's judgement means nothing and that is not the case.
Yes the Bible speaks of ...saved....but, keep it in it's proper place....after God says we are saved.
...then no one can touch us.