Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

[posthuman]

Yes, as I said, "gospel" simply means "good news".

So yes, a "gospel" was preached to Abraham.

I don't want to read into Genesis 15:5. I recall my pastor tried to do that, by claiming that the "stars" in heaven in Genesis 15:5 tells the same gospel as 1 Cor 15:1-4, with Virgo as virgin Mary, Leo as the Lion of Judah, Scorpio as Satan etc etc.

That to me is bit of an overkill. I stay silent when the Bible is silent.

the Bible is not silent about this, and it's not talking about astrology.

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.​

(Galatians 3:6-9 kjv)​

this is your buddy Paul here telling you that Genesis 15 is about Jesus and His great work.
in the next chapter our friend Paul tells us that Genesis 16 is also about the work of Christ.

why don't you believe Paul?

 

[posthuman]

Paul defines what the Gospel is in a nut shell in 1cor 15 .1_4. By this I know from scripture its not this Gospel .

luke 9.6
6¶And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

What your saying is post hoc rationalization. Where your saying Its just ' added information ' to the story .
If you think of it as good news it makes sense why they were preaching their gospel prior to the Gospel of DBR .

And He said unto them, ​

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.​

Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, ​

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.​

(Luke 24:44-47 kjv)​

​

​

i don't think it's fruitful for anyone to argue with Jesus.

 

[throughfaith]

Paul was indeed a prolific scribe and adventurer for the Lord Jesus. I like his style too, but in deeds and just life and raw witness Paul is the least of all the New Testament writers. John both by his writings and his character in those writing would be the greatest of the New Testament writers in the sense of canonicity since he alone of the writers witnessed the crucifixion for the entirety of the episode of it and also received and wrote the book of the Apocalypse.

We have to ask why God chose Paul to pen nearly half the new testament to the Church? It was given to Paul by direct revelation from Jesus . He's given the ' mysteries ' and basically we would barely understand the bible today without Paul's writings . How many apostle s to the gentiles are there ?

 

[throughfaith]

And He said unto them, ​

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.​

Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, ​

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.​

(Luke 24:44-47 kjv)​

​

​

i don't think it's fruitful for anyone to argue with Jesus.

Erm that comes after luke 9 .

 

[posthuman]

Paul writes nearly half of the new testament. How many did the others write ? Paul writes more than any other person in the whole bible.

Paul wrote roughly 17% of the NT.
Luke wrote about 20% of the NT.

'number of epistles' isn't as accurate of a measure as word count.

 

[posthuman]

Erm that comes after luke 9 .

Genesis comes before Matthew.

 

[throughfaith]

And He said unto them, ​

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.​

Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, ​

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.​

(Luke 24:44-47 kjv)​

​

​

i don't think it's fruitful for anyone to argue with Jesus.

luke 18 ( After luke 9.6 )
31¶Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34¶And they understood NONE of these things: and this saying was HID from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Then later Jesus reminds them AFTER the resurrection.

 

[throughfaith]

Paul wrote roughly 17% of the NT.
Luke wrote about 20% of the NT.

'number of epistles' isn't as accurate of a measure as word count.

Take out his 13 epistles and we would not have a clue about the Gospel of grace and any information to the Church .

 

[throughfaith]

Paul wrote roughly 17% of the NT.
Luke wrote about 20% of the NT.

'number of epistles' isn't as accurate of a measure as word count.

We were talking about the apostles.

 

[RomanticRevolutionary]

We have to ask why God chose Paul to pen nearly half the new testament to the Church? It was given to Paul by direct revelation from Jesus . He's given the ' mysteries ' and basically we would barely understand the bible today without Paul's writings . How many apostle s to the gentiles are there ?

No you can certainly understand the Bible even without Paul's writings. Nevertheless don't get me wrong, Paul is a decent writer, I have read him many times. Paul's writings are many because they are all in the forms of Letters (the old word Epistles sometimes is what others call them) to the various churches which he visited in his life which is both written about in his own letters and the accounts of the other writers such as in book of Acts, or in passing reference to Paul as in one of Peter's letter.

 

[posthuman]

We have to ask why God chose Paul to pen nearly half the new testament to the Church?

17% isn't nearly half.
and Luke wrote 20% of the words of the NT, more than Paul.

why

 

[posthuman]

We were talking about the apostles.

it's still not exactly clear to me what many people here are talking about, but i'm talking about the Bible.

 

[posthuman]

We were talking about the apostles.

some Christian tradition holds that Luke was a Gentile.

why does God choose a non-apostle Gentile to write more of the volume of the NT than any other man?

 

[throughfaith]

Genesis comes before Matthew.

1 ) in luke 9 they are clearly preaching a gospel. 6¶And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.


2 ) in luke 18 Jesus tells them that
32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

And notice there response ?

34¶And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

So let that sink in . There preaching a gospel ( step 1 ) They are told the DBR step 2) They don't understand it and its hid from them .

The conclusion? They are not preaching the Gospel ( DBR ) But ' THE KINGDOM ' Instead .

Further proof is found in Luke 24.
1¶Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

4And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

5And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
6He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

7Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

8¶And they REMEMBERED his words,

9And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

10It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.

11And their words seemed to them as IDLE TALES , and they BELIEVED them NOT
keep going .

.
17¶And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18¶And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

19¶And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

23And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25¶Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Ok heres the point. THEY SHOULD HAVE REMEMBERED AT HIS RESURRECTION!!!!!!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Why not just understand the Bible literally, instead of trying to read your own doctrine into it?

Exactly. Why don't we accept what Paul literally said about the Faith of Abraham, which is that we [must] possess his exact same Faith.

Romans 4:11-12 NKJV - "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised."

We are to possess Abraham's Faith. Why doesn't the "church" understand what this means? Why does the "church" ignore this? Because if we ignore this kind of Faith, the Faith that only comes by way of a Circumcised Heart, then we can ignore a Faith that is obedient. If "church" ignores obedience, then everyone gets to attend "church" and never suffers the consequences of discipline. The Great Lie? The Great delusion is that "Christians" can disobey, yet still enter the gates of Heaven. I can't imagine a bigger delusion than that . . . and the "church" certainly suffers from this problem.

 

[throughfaith]

it's still not exactly clear to me what many people here are talking about, but i'm talking about the Bible.

I think the longer a person has been sermonised the harder it is to understand the bible .

 

[throughfaith]

some Christian tradition holds that Luke was a Gentile.

why does God choose a non-apostle Gentile to write more of the volume of the NT than any other man?

Luke 24 .
20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. THIS IS OUR GOOD NEWS ,BUT THEY ARE SAD THAT IT HAPPENED??

 

[posthuman]

1 ) in luke 9 they are clearly preaching a gospel. 6¶And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.


2 ) in luke 18 Jesus tells them that
32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

And notice there response ?

34¶And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

So let that sink in . There preaching a gospel ( step 1 ) They are told the DBR step 2) They don't understand it and its hid from them .

The conclusion? They are not preaching the Gospel ( DBR ) But ' THE KINGDOM ' Instead .

Further proof is found in Luke 24.
1¶Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

3And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

4And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

5And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
6He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

7Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

8¶And they REMEMBERED his words,

9And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

10It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.

11And their words seemed to them as IDLE TALES , and they BELIEVED them NOT
keep going .

.
17¶And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18¶And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

19¶And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

23And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25¶Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Ok heres the point. THEY SHOULD HAVE REMEMBERED AT HIS RESURRECTION!!!!!!

having a fuller understanding of a thing does not make it a different thing.

your knowledge and/or your ignorance has no effect on what the truth is.

 

[posthuman]

Luke 24 .
20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. THIS IS OUR GOOD NEWS ,BUT THEY ARE SAD THAT IT HAPPENED??

Jesus wept when he came to the tomb of Lazarus.
on the way there He told His disciples it was good, for their sakes.

why?
what's Jesus crying for? does God Himself not know He's about to raise Lazarus? was that an unplanned impulse-resurrection or does the omniscient Ancient of Days know what He's doing and what He will do?

 

[throughfaith]

some Christian tradition holds that Luke was a Gentile.

why does God choose a non-apostle Gentile to write more of the volume of the NT than any other man?

Luke 24 .
38And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40¶And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43And he took it, and did eat before them.

44¶And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45Then OPENED HE THEIR UNDERSTANDING, THAT THEY MIGHT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES.

46¶And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48And ye are witnesses of these things.


49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

They were not supposed to understand prior to the resurrection . It had to be the right time .