Poll: Do "One Taken/Other Left" Verses Refer To Secret Rapture or Second Coming?

[Phoneman-777]

I can't vote because of the use of the word "Secret".

I do believe it is probably referring to the rapture but nothing secret about it. They will rise visibly into the air and just like vultures that circle in one spot in the sky they will all be gathered to that spot which is the meeting of Christ in the air.

People will see them rise until they are no longer visible like Jesus ascension.

I also believe that they will be transfigured and partake of the same visible light glorification as seen upon Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. I believe this because Dan 12 says they will shine as bright as the firmament and like the stars, and also because Peter and Paul both hint at such a glorification in the saints when that even occurs.

There are several scriptures that suggest that we will shine with visible glory when we are changed and rise and absolutely none that say we will disappear from view the moment we are changed. To rise into the clouds is something one would describe from the perspective of viewing the event from below and therefore cannot be a SECRET vanishing where the rising to the clouds is no longer a description.

So my vote would be "Visible Rapture" not Secret.

The question that the disciples asked Jesus "Where Lord" and his answer was not to hell, or to the Lake of Fire, but to the clouds like when vultures gather in one point in the sky because they have found a body.

They understood that those left were those who would suffer the judgments to be poured out on the earth but they wanted to know where the ones who were taken to be saved from it were going. Jesus only gives them a partial answer. They will meet the Lord in the air.

Some think that taken as in the flood of Noah is the interpretation. If so why did the disciples ask "where Lord" if they knew that they would be taken in sudden destruction they would not really care about where, since they were destroyed like the flood. They understood that those taken had an continuation and a destiny and they wanted to know where? They did not ask about the ones left behind and if they had included themselves with the ones being left behind as the saved they would have asked about them, but they were not concerned with those left behind they saw themselves in the ones taken and wanted to know WHERE.

The other reason I believe this is that the Flood of Noah was sudden and final. The judgments at the end are a series of judgments that all contribute to dispossesing the earth of its unlawful inhabitants by the goel near kinsman redeemer Jesus, the Lamb worthy to open the seals of the title deed of planet earth and all those judgments that ensue as each seal, bowl, trumpet etc is released are in a series and not a one day event. There is no One day judgment that wipes out everyone like the flood. It is a series of judgments. How could one be taken in one judgment and the other left as a one day event when that is not how the end time judgments occur. To make the one taken as the one judged would have to be reconciled with the many outpourings of judgments.

What, would one be taken with poisoned waters (1/3 of man) on one day and others left. On another day would one be killed by famine and another left, on another day would one be killed by a 50-100 lb hail stone and another left? There is no One day judgment that would take all away and leave only the saved.

There is no one day flood, or one day judgement that compares with the flood. The creation of the new earth is after the final judgment so that will not work either.

Therefore the comparison with the flood must be the same as when he talked about people marrying and eating and drinking, that day will catch them unaware and the rapture will be the first of the events which will be followed by the series of judgments that will come upon those left behind.

So, then you must agree with Paul that when the dead and living saints rise to the clouds to meet Jesus when loudest verse in the Bible is fulfilled - Jesus coming "as a thief in the night" in the clouds with a Shout, the Voice of the Archangel to wake the dead, and the Trump of God - that is when the Earth will cease to be habitable, and life will not continue for seven years, seven months, not even seven seconds, right?

 

[Truth7t7]

I can't vote because of the use of the word "Secret".

I do believe it is probably referring to the rapture but nothing secret about it. They will rise visibly into the air and just like vultures that circle in one spot in the sky they will all be gathered to that spot which is the meeting of Christ in the air.

People will see them rise until they are no longer visible like Jesus ascension.

I also believe that they will be transfigured and partake of the same visible light glorification as seen upon Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. I believe this because Dan 12 says they will shine as bright as the firmament and like the stars, and also because Peter and Paul both hint at such a glorification in the saints when that even occurs.

There are several scriptures that suggest that we will shine with visible glory when we are changed and rise and absolutely none that say we will disappear from view the moment we are changed. To rise into the clouds is something one would describe from the perspective of viewing the event from below and therefore cannot be a SECRET vanishing where the rising to the clouds is no longer a description.

So my vote would be "Visible Rapture" not Secret.

The question that the disciples asked Jesus "Where Lord" and his answer was not to hell, or to the Lake of Fire, but to the clouds like when vultures gather in one point in the sky because they have found a body.

They understood that those left were those who would suffer the judgments to be poured out on the earth but they wanted to know where the ones who were taken to be saved from it were going. Jesus only gives them a partial answer. They will meet the Lord in the air.

Some think that taken as in the flood of Noah is the interpretation. If so why did the disciples ask "where Lord" if they knew that they would be taken in sudden destruction they would not really care about where, since they were destroyed like the flood. They understood that those taken had an continuation and a destiny and they wanted to know where? They did not ask about the ones left behind and if they had included themselves with the ones being left behind as the saved they would have asked about them, but they were not concerned with those left behind they saw themselves in the ones taken and wanted to know WHERE.

The other reason I believe this is that the Flood of Noah was sudden and final. The judgments at the end are a series of judgments that all contribute to dispossesing the earth of its unlawful inhabitants by the goel near kinsman redeemer Jesus, the Lamb worthy to open the seals of the title deed of planet earth and all those judgments that ensue as each seal, bowl, trumpet etc is released are in a series and not a one day event. There is no One day judgment that wipes out everyone like the flood. It is a series of judgments. How could one be taken in one judgment and the other left as a one day event when that is not how the end time judgments occur. To make the one taken as the one judged would have to be reconciled with the many outpourings of judgments.

What, would one be taken with poisoned waters (1/3 of man) on one day and others left. On another day would one be killed by famine and another left, on another day would one be killed by a 50-100 lb hail stone and another left? There is no One day judgment that would take all away and leave only the saved.

There is no one day flood, or one day judgement that compares with the flood. The creation of the new earth is after the final judgment so that will not work either.

Therefore the comparison with the flood must be the same as when he talked about people marrying and eating and drinking, that day will catch them unaware and the rapture will be the first of the events which will be followed by the series of judgments that will come upon those left behind.

Perhaps the correct wording would have been (Pre-Trib Rapture) do you believe in it?

 

[Scribe]

So, then you must agree with Paul that when the dead and living saints rise to the clouds to meet Jesus when loudest verse in the Bible is fulfilled - Jesus coming "as a thief in the night" in the clouds with a Shout, the Voice of the Archangel to wake the dead, and the Trump of God - that is when the Earth will cease to be habitable, and life will not continue for seven years, seven months, not even seven seconds, right?

I already said what I think. A visible rapture then a series of judgments that is longer than one day. Then a final battle of Armageddon when Jesus comes down to reign for a thousand years, then a new heaven and a new earth. And don't call me a Jesuit or I will call you something found only in the dark alleys of the French Quarter.

 

[Lafftur]

I appreciate your thoughts. As a Protestant Historicist, I have a different Biblical view on eschatology, one that is in harmony with the great Reformers of the Protestant Reformation, which was the eschatological view of the entire Protestant world until around 150 years ago when Protestantism began to embrace Jesuit eschatology, and today it is fully taken in by it.

What you described is along the lines of Jesuit Futurism, which disregards the prophetic symbolism that a "beast" is a "kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23 KJV), which means the Antichrist "Beast of Revelation 13" must also be a kingdom. Once again, thank you for sharing

I don’t really understand all those fancy words...Jesuit Futurism, Protestant Reformist, eschatological .....just sounds like boxes man in his human reasoning is trying to fit God into.....what ever happen to just keep it simple......

 

[Truth7t7]

I can't vote because of the use of the word "Secret".

I do believe it is probably referring to the rapture but nothing secret about it. They will rise visibly into the air and just like vultures that circle in one spot in the sky they will all be gathered to that spot which is the meeting of Christ in the air.

People will see them rise until they are no longer visible like Jesus ascension.

I also believe that they will be transfigured and partake of the same visible light glorification as seen upon Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. I believe this because Dan 12 says they will shine as bright as the firmament and like the stars, and also because Peter and Paul both hint at such a glorification in the saints when that even occurs.

There are several scriptures that suggest that we will shine with visible glory when we are changed and rise and absolutely none that say we will disappear from view the moment we are changed. To rise into the clouds is something one would describe from the perspective of viewing the event from below and therefore cannot be a SECRET vanishing where the rising to the clouds is no longer a description.

So my vote would be "Visible Rapture" not Secret.

The question that the disciples asked Jesus "Where Lord" and his answer was not to hell, or to the Lake of Fire, but to the clouds like when vultures gather in one point in the sky because they have found a body.

They understood that those left were those who would suffer the judgments to be poured out on the earth but they wanted to know where the ones who were taken to be saved from it were going. Jesus only gives them a partial answer. They will meet the Lord in the air.

Some think that taken as in the flood of Noah is the interpretation. If so why did the disciples ask "where Lord" if they knew that they would be taken in sudden destruction they would not really care about where, since they were destroyed like the flood. They understood that those taken had an continuation and a destiny and they wanted to know where? They did not ask about the ones left behind and if they had included themselves with the ones being left behind as the saved they would have asked about them, but they were not concerned with those left behind they saw themselves in the ones taken and wanted to know WHERE.

The other reason I believe this is that the Flood of Noah was sudden and final. The judgments at the end are a series of judgments that all contribute to dispossesing the earth of its unlawful inhabitants by the goel near kinsman redeemer Jesus, the Lamb worthy to open the seals of the title deed of planet earth and all those judgments that ensue as each seal, bowl, trumpet etc is released are in a series and not a one day event. There is no One day judgment that wipes out everyone like the flood. It is a series of judgments. How could one be taken in one judgment and the other left as a one day event when that is not how the end time judgments occur. To make the one taken as the one judged would have to be reconciled with the many outpourings of judgments.

What, would one be taken with poisoned waters (1/3 of man) on one day and others left. On another day would one be killed by famine and another left, on another day would one be killed by a 50-100 lb hail stone and another left? There is no One day judgment that would take all away and leave only the saved.

There is no one day flood, or one day judgement that compares with the flood. The creation of the new earth is after the final judgment so that will not work either.

Therefore the comparison with the flood must be the same as when he talked about people marrying and eating and drinking, that day will catch them unaware and the rapture will be the first of the events which will be followed by the series of judgments that will come upon those left behind.

That's a real long post, and not one scripture provided to support your claims above, not a one?

The believers will visibly rise to meet the Lord in the air, then judgements, battles, with humans continuing to live on earth?

I'm in suspense, where is this in scripture, waiting?

 

[Ahwatukee]

I agree with your point about context...but I can't agree the Trumpets are still future. Jesus gave the prophecy of them, as well as the Churches and Seals, while He was in the Holy Place, which is before He moves into the Most Holy Place and begins cleansing the Sanctuary.

Neither the seals nor the trumpets have yet taken place. These are going to be unprecedented plagues of wrath the likes of which the world has never seen. And they will take place in the literal sense. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, a fourth and a third respectively, over half the worlds population will have been killed within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period and that's not counting the fatalities that will result from the trumpets 1, 2 and 3, nor from the bowl judgments. By the time the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the majority of the earth population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled.

We certainly haven't seen the first trumpet, where a third of the earth and trees burned up. Nor have we seen something like a huge mountain coming through the atmosphere all ablaze killing a third of all the creatures in the sea and destroying a third of the ships. Nor any of the other seals, trumpets or bowl judgments.

Daniel 8 says "after 2,300 Days, then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed" and we know that these are symbolic days because the 70 Weeks - which virtually all agree are symbolic for 490 years - cannot be "determined" which means "cut off" or "amputated" from 2,300 literal days, but certainly can be cut off from 2,300 symbolic days, or literal years. The starting point for both the 2,300 and the 70 is 457 B.C., which means Jesus moved into the Most Holy Place in 1844. So, the Churches, Seals, and Trumpets are all parallel prophecies which begin in the 1st century when John saw the vision and when Jesus was ministering yet in the Holy Place.

The 2,300, which were literal days, is in reference to when Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple in the 2nd century BC and is a shadow of what the future antichrist is going to do when he sets up that abomination in the holy place. The 70 weeks are weeks of years, i.e. 70 weeks of years or 490 days. Remember, this 70 weeks of years was decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, with the last seven years taking place as the time of God's wrath leading up to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

7 seven year periods (49 years) = From the issuing to rebuild and restore Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2)

62 Seven year period (434 years) = At the end of which the Messiah was cut off (Christ crucified)

One seven year period = The last seven years which is where God will fulfill the decree regarding Israel and Jerusalem, as well as the pouring out of His wrath upon a Christ rejecting world.

The 5th Trumpet is the rise of Islam in the 7th century, which swarmed over the West and covered almost the exact migration area of the annual locust swarm, and is evidenced by other symbolism (ie., their power was in their ["horses'] tails", which is the flag of Islam).

The 5th trumpet will take place just as it is written. The Abyss is literal place. It is the same place that those demonic beings collectively called 'Legion' begged Jesus not to send them into. It is also the same place where the beast, that angel of the Abyss, is currently residing in. And it is the same place that Satan is going to be thrown into and sealed when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age.

This is not symbolism, for it is a description of God's wrath, which will take place literally. Therefore, When the 5th trumpet is sounded, that angel having the key to the Abyss will open it, releasing those demonic beings resembling locusts, who will be command to not hurt the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads, which will exclude only the 144,000 out of Israel who will have been sealed in Chapter 7. Everyone else will suffer their stinging torment for five months.

Your error is applying a symbolic interpretation to these plagues of wrath, where none is required. By doing so, you are distorting the prophesies in the book of Revelation. When you symbolize, you are ignoring all of the detailed information, such as these demonic beings having hair like women's hair, teeth like lions teeth and faces like human faces. In addition, it states that these demonic beings have a king over them, which is the angel of the Abyss. These things all need to be taken into consideration in order to come to a right conclusion. This is not a description of Islamic men, but of demonic beings being released from the Abyss.

When you symbolize them, it allows you and others to make them past events, having nothing to do with what the context actually says. This is why I continue to claim that, those who symbolize these events have no idea of the severity and magnitude of what is coming upon this earth. Because by symbolizing these plagues of wrath, you dilute them.

These future events of God's wrath are going to be unprecedented and is how God is going to fulfill the Day of the Lord.

Interpret the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments just as they are written, because that is how they are going take place. That said, the 5th trumpet has nothing at all to do with 7th century Islam, but will affect all the inhabitants of the earth, as result of the Abyss being opened. What you doing, is just repeating the teachings of men, because I've heard this and contended against it before.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So, then you must agree with Paul that when the dead and living saints rise to the clouds to meet Jesus when loudest verse in the Bible is fulfilled - Jesus coming "as a thief in the night" in the clouds with a Shout, the Voice of the Archangel to wake the dead, and the Trump of God - that is when the Earth will cease to be habitable, and life will not continue for seven years, seven months, not even seven seconds, right?

That is not correct! When the Lord fulfills His promise found in John 14:1-3, He will bring with Him the spirits of those who will have died in Him and they will be reunited with their bodies which will resurrect. Immediately after that, the those still alive will be changed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with those who will have just resurrected. At that point the entire church from beginning to end, will meet the Lord in the air, where at which point He will take the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us, so that where He is we may be also.

After that event takes place, the period of God's wrath will begin, with that antichrist establishing his seven year covenant with Israel, which is represented by the 1st seal rider on the white horse and which initiates that last seven years of the seventy sevens that was decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem. After that, the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place chronologically as they are written in Revelation.

You need to get away from these teachings that you have adopted. And I know that they are not your teachings, because I have heard them many times before. You're just repeating what you have heard and adopt, just like so many others. Stop symbolizing everything in Revelation, except where it is required and obvious.

 

[Ahwatukee]

At the Second Coming no one is either taken or left. The first event is the Battle of Armageddon as described in Revelation 19. And there is total destruction.

19 And I saw the beast [the Antichrist], and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

This results in a river of blood 200 miles long and 5 feet deep. The slaughter at Armageddon is unbelievable.

==============================================================

Then Jesus dismissed the crowds and went into the house. His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37He replied, “The One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. 42And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

===============================================================

There will indeed be those who will be of the one taken and one left group when Jesus returns to end the age.

The weeds are the 'one taken' group which the angels will go and collect throughout the earth, bringing them back to the area of Armageddon, where they will be killed by the double-edged sword that will proceed from the Lord's mouth, which is figurative of the spoken word of God.

Therefore, when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the angels will 'first collect the weeds' (one taken) where their bodies will be killed and their spirits thrown into the fire. Then the birds that the angel will have gathered in Rev.19:17-18, will gorge themselves on their flesh.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I Disagree, (The Sanctuary Being Cleansed) is nothing more than the 7th Day Adventist doctrine, covering for the false prophecy in the supposed return of Jesus Christ in 1844 that failed, (The Great Disappointment)

When the 1844 prophecy failed, it turned into the cleansing of the sanctuary, and (Investigative Judgement), the big (Cover) for the false 1844 date setting of the Millerites/7th Day Adventist

You see, it's misinformation such as this which is the result of a lack of understanding of opposing views and/or an inability to compete in the arena of ideas against them.

There was no "false prophecy" of the Second Coming of Jesus in 1844.
There was, however, a wrong interpretation of Bible prophecy which led to the belief He would come in 1844.

Now, concerning wrong interpretations and "disappointments", the disciples walked with Jesus day and night for 3 1/2 years and were still clueless and greatly disappointed even on the morning of His resurrection and you give them a pass...

...but the Advent believers - having no such advantage - wrongly interpreted prophetic passages of Scripture which resulted in a great disappointed when Jesus didn't come as expected in 1844, and you condemn them?

 

[Truth7t7]

I appreciate your thoughts. As a Protestant Historicist, I have a different Biblical view on eschatology, one that is in harmony with the great Reformers of the Protestant Reformation, which was the eschatological view of the entire Protestant world until around 150 years ago when Protestantism began to embrace Jesuit eschatology, and today it is fully taken in by it.

What you described is along the lines of Jesuit Futurism, which disregards the prophetic symbolism that a "beast" is a "kingdom" (Daniel 7:17,23 KJV), which means the Antichrist "Beast of Revelation 13" must also be a kingdom. Once again, thank you for sharing

Where In the Historicist view, is (Ellen G. Whites) (Investigative Judgement) mentioned?

 

[Truth7t7]

You see, it's misinformation such as this which is the result of a lack of understanding of opposing views and/or an inability to compete in the arena of ideas against them.

There was no "false prophecy" of the Second Coming of Jesus in 1844.
There was, however, a wrong interpretation of Bible prophecy which led to the belief He would come in 1844.

Now, concerning wrong interpretations and "disappointments", the disciples walked with Jesus day and night for 3 1/2 years and were still clueless and greatly disappointed even on the morning of His resurrection and you give them a pass...

...but the Advent believers - having no such advantage - wrongly interpreted prophetic passages of Scripture which resulted in a great disappointed when Jesus didn't come as expected in 1844, and you condemn them?

(THE GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT) on the 1844 return of Jesus Christ, Not a false prophecy, just a wrong interpretation?

 

[Absolutely]

No, the one taken is taken by Christ in the rapture and the one not taken is the rejected one who suffers the wrath of God and not all of them are killed anyways. Many are ruled over for a thousand years.

No
But you are partially correct.

The 2 are both believers.

The same "one taken / left" is in the 10 virgin parable.

The one taken/ left in the Virgin parable is almost in the same breath as the one taken/ left in mat 24.

In mat 24 it is framed " before the flood"
And ends in watch and pray.
Both are the pretrib rapture.

You won't find anyone on this board who notices the context of " before the flood" they ALL LEAVE IT OUT.
OMISSION guarantees error.

 

[Yahcubs777]

I agree with your point about context...but I can't agree the Trumpets are still future. Jesus gave the prophecy of them, as well as the Churches and Seals, while He was in the Holy Place, which is before He moves into the Most Holy Place and begins cleansing the Sanctuary.

Daniel 8 says "after 2,300 Days, then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed" and we know that these are symbolic days because the 70 Weeks - which virtually all agree are symbolic for 490 years - cannot be "determined" which means "cut off" or "amputated" from 2,300 literal days, but certainly can be cut off from 2,300 symbolic days, or literal years. The starting point for both the 2,300 and the 70 is 457 B.C., which means Jesus moved into the Most Holy Place in 1844. So, the Churches, Seals, and Trumpets are all parallel prophecies which begin in the 1st century when John saw the vision and when Jesus was ministering yet in the Holy Place.

The 5th Trumpet is the rise of Islam in the 7th century, which swarmed over the West and covered almost the exact migration area of the annual locust swarm, and is evidenced by other symbolism (ie., their power was in their ["horses'] tails", which is the flag of Islam).

The books of the Prophets are coded. The book of Daniel was sealed, the book of Revelation was sealed as well. Revelation is a book that has revelations that seemingly are unveieled yet they are written in Prophetic language. Thus as was written, both Daniel the Great Prophet, and John the Beloved, sealed the writings by coding what they were saying.

The WORD of GOD is Spiritual, and Life giving. There are 7 Angels of the 7 Churches. And those Angels were coded when speaking of the Great Men of GOD sent to lead the entire population of the children of the kingdom in the earth at that time. They were called Angels, becasue they were the ONLY ones that could hear from GOD. and did hear from GOD directly at that time. Thus, they are as follows"

Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Apostle Peter, The Son of Man.

Each of these Angels of the Churches, had a message that they were sent to deliver to the people.

Enoch preached the Gospel of transgfiguration - and he transfigured in life without ever dying at all.
Noah preached the Gospel of the washings of regeneration, and he coupled an ARK that saved Mankind from extinction from the flood.
Abraham preached the Gospel of circumscision
Moses preached the Gospel of Atonement - And he brought the Law. Moses is the Law, a witness that testifies of GOD.
Joshua preached the Gospel of Revelation, and by revelation he brought down the walls of Jericho.
Apostle Peter preached the Gospel of the remission of sin.
The Son of Man preached the Gospel of immoratlity + incorruptibility.

These are the 7 Angels of the 7 Churches written of in Rev 1-3....

Each of these Angels of the Churches that has his message is also what was called "A Trumpet" . When Enoch was in the earth, and he was preaching his message, he was sounding a trumpet. Same with Noah, it was a trumpet, and the rest of them as well. Their messages are referred to as trumpets. The reason is because their messages reaps the children of the kingdom from the tares. That every child of the kingdom in the earth at that time, must hearken to him, and be led by him, to run their race. And here is a proof that Noah is the second Angel of the Church, one plain enough to see that wasn't really coded.

Rev 16
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

The 7th Angel of the 7 churches is the Son of Man that is to come, who Jesus His Pre-Eminence called "The Spirit of Truth', The comforter; and he was called the restituioner of all things, he was called the good samaritan, the stone hewn without hands, he was called the finisher, the one who got the job done, he was called Elijah by Malachi, he was called the Prophet by Apostle Peter, And He was called "another voice from heaven" in Revelation 18:4, because the message he has for the children of the kingdom is different to what every other preacher is saying in the earth Proving he is an Elijah- Just as Elijah of Tishbe was preaching a different message to the people than the prophets of baal, and Elijah John the Baptist preached a different message from the pharisees. And his message shall reap the children of life, and bundle the tares as chaff to be cast into the lake of fire - that is to say, reveal who the wheat and tares are. And his message will put on the wedding garment, preparing the bride for her wedding, for the second coming of Jesus His Pre-Eminence to receive, and she shall be an immortal bride, that conquered death, and proved she loved GOD.

And all the children of the kingdom that did not hearken to his message, that did not put on the wedding garment in life alive and therefore were told to leave the wedding, that did not conquer death in life by immortalisation in life, by bringing down the walls of mortality; bringing down the building blocks of mortality adumbrated in Joshua bringing down the walls of Jericho, all the children of the kingdom that do not complete their race, shall be cut off from among the people- which means they will die in this earth, and go to Abrahams Bosom where they will be resurrected at the second resurrection, and therefore shall not eat from the tree of life but shall inherit the New Salem. While those that immortalised in life shall gain entrance into Eden, the heavens world for Mankind.

THIS IS A TRUMPET
COME OUT OF HER

 

[Absolutely]

I already said what I think. A visible rapture then a series of judgments that is longer than one day. Then a final battle of Armageddon when Jesus comes down to reign for a thousand years, then a new heaven and a new earth. And don't call me a Jesuit or I will call you something found only in the dark alleys of the French Quarter.

He call everyone that that disagrees with him

Juvenile and baiting. Hoping to get a reaction.

 

[Absolutely]

I don’t really understand all those fancy words...Jesuit Futurism, Protestant Reformist, eschatological .....just sounds like boxes man in his human reasoning is trying to fit God into.....what ever happen to just keep it simple......

He is most likely insecure in his position and feel the need for the name calling.

It is actually part of his doctrine.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I don’t really understand all those fancy words...Jesuit Futurism, Protestant Reformist, eschatological .....just sounds like boxes man in his human reasoning is trying to fit God into.....what ever happen to just keep it simple......

Look, I'm Southern and a bit slow...so if I can understand it, ANYBODY can

The Papacy - which is the "union of the Catholic Church and the secular State" - ruled the Christian world for a thousand years until the Protestant Reformation Movement of the 16th century, when Catholic monk Martin Luther and others of the Catholic church sought to reform the Catholicism, which was already irredeemably corrupt both in leadership and doctrine with the most injuriously being that salvation could be purchased via works/money.

The Church not only refused to redress their grievances, but excommunicated them.

Undeterred, they continued their work of restoring the truth of God's Word in what came to be known as the "Protestant Reformation" in which these former Catholics "protested" against the errors of the Papacy. Luther started the Lutheran church, John Calvin the Presbyterian church. In the 18th century, John/Chuck Wesley started the Methodist church, and so on.

The work of the early Reformers eventually led them to a study of eschatology, a fancy word for "end times prophecy". They concluded from the Bible that the Antichrist was none other than the Roman Catholic Papacy, which had claimed since its inception to "take the place of Christ", which is what the Greek "Anti-Christos" actually means - to stand in Christ's place as Savior, Mediator, Divine God, perhaps the most blasphemous things a mere mortal can claim. The Twin Pillars that defined the Protestant Reformation was "salvation by grace through faith alone" and "the Papacy is the Antichrist of Bible prophecy". Catholics began flying out of the Church and joining up with these "Protestant Innovators" as they Papacy referred to them.

By the middle of the 16th century, something had to be done as the Catholic Church had lost so many members...so, the "Counter Reformation" was begun, which sole purpose was to destroy the Protestant Reformation. During this time, the Jesuits were commissioned to develop alternative eschatological interpretations which would exonerate the Papacy. Two Jesuit ideas soon emerged. Jesuit priest Alcazar announced an interpretation which said all Bible prophecy had been fulfilled in the 1st century and that the rise of Antichrist and that the Second Coming had already happened. This idea is known as "Jesuit Preterism". Another Jesuit priest, Ribera, concluded that the Antichrist was one man who would arise in the future at the end of time during the last seven years of tribulation and sit in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and broker a peace treaty between the Arabs and Jews, which treaty he would break in the middle of the 7 years and usher in Armageddon, after which the Second Coming would happen. (Well, biscuits and country gravy, doesn't that sound familiar?????) This idea is known as "Jesuit Futurism". The Catholic church essentially told the world, "if you're looking for the Antichrist, look to the past, to the future, ANYWHERE but at us."

The Reformers laughed at these ideas and totally obliterated them with Scripture, so they went underground and stayed hidden for over 300 years while Protestant Historicism was preached from every non-Catholic pulpit all over the world...until just about 150 years ago.

The Protestant Reformation began to get lazy due to a decline in Papal persecution of Protestants...which resulted in the unbelievable development of 19th century Protestants circulating those 16th century Jesuit ideas as "Biblical" eschatology! As time went on, more and more Christians began to forget Protestant Historicism and embrace Jesuit Futurism (and later Jesuit Preterism) and now, non-Catholics will defend Jesuit ideas more fiercely than the Jesuit themselves.

Today, non-Catholics aren't even called "Protestant" anymore...the politically correct term is "Evangelicals". This is because since the Catholic church is no longer regarded as Antichrist, the system which killed between 50 -150 Million Christians who were guilty of the crime of simply wanting to worship God according to the dictates of their own conscience is now worthy to partake of the ecumenical love fest that we see today. But, if the Protestant Reformation is correct, and I believe it is, that means the Papal Antichrist - the First Beast of Revelation 13 - will soon arise to its former glory and have its Mark enforced upon the world by the Second Beast of Revelation 13, the only remaining world superpower with the military industrial complex to get it done.

You owe it yourself to examine these issues and find out what modern prophecy teachers aren't telling the people

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdbXyyVfVp-6TTHXK9aiIoFcBWWH59esb

 

[Phoneman-777]

He call everyone that that disagrees with him

Juvenile and baiting. Hoping to get a reaction.

If it walks like a duck...

 

[Absolutely]

==============================================================

Then Jesus dismissed the crowds and went into the house. His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37He replied, “The One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness. 42And they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

===============================================================

There will indeed be those who will be of the one taken and one left group when Jesus returns to end the age.

The weeds are the 'one taken' group which the angels will go and collect throughout the earth, bringing them back to the area of Armageddon, where they will be killed by the double-edged sword that will proceed from the Lord's mouth, which is figurative of the spoken word of God.

Therefore, when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, the angels will 'first collect the weeds' (one taken) where their bodies will be killed and their spirits thrown into the fire. Then the birds that the angel will have gathered in Rev.19:17-18, will gorge themselves on their flesh.

Does not fit.
1) Jesus is speaking to believers
2) You are saying that Jesus is telling believers that they will be next to unbelievers ( in a bed no less) and watch supposed wicked thrown into fire. And them saying " watch and wait"

Huh??????

Nope it is the rapture ...one "taken/ left" exactly like the 10 virgins which is unmistakably the rapture

It is framed " before the flood"..before the tribulation

It is topped of with " watch and wait."
It has 2 in a bed....can not be a believer in bed with a wicked person.

Only the rapture fits.

There was no wicked taken before the flood.
Noah was taken into the ark before the flood.
No wicked were involved in anything but oblivion before the flood. They flat out knew nothing was about to happen.

Jesus framed it in that dynamic....before the flood.

 

[Phoneman-777]

That is not correct! When the Lord fulfills His promise found in John 14:1-3, He will bring with Him the spirits of those who will have died in Him and they will be reunited with their bodies which will resurrect..

That's not what the text means. "...bring with Him" refers to "bring them forth from the grave as Jesus, too, was brought forth from it."

The context is too plain to miss - it's about the resurrection of the saints as Jesus was resurrected. Why can't you see that a Soul can only exist as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life, and at the dissolution of this union, the Body returns to the Earth, the Spirit returns to God as it was before it entered the Body, and the Soul ceases to be until the resurrection?

 

[Phoneman-777]

(THE GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT) on the 1844 return of Jesus Christ, Not a false prophecy, just a wrong interpretation?

Well, name the person who claimed to have had a message from God that Jesus was coming in 1844. It should be simple enough, right?