Baptism of fire

[Runningman]

No, "sent to hell" has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit or baptism of fire. Hell is the reward of angels and the devil and for those who rejected Christ.

The Holy Spirit's work is not to judge but to convict and lead and guide the saint.

Then why does Matthew 3 parallel the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13? Who do you think the tares are that angels are sent out to gather and throw into the 'furnace'? Who are the wheat that will be gathered into God's kingdom?

The second death:

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[CS1]

Then why does Matthew 3 parallel the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13? Who do you think the tares are that angels are sent out to gather and throw into the 'furnace'? Who are the wheat that will be gathered into God's kingdom?

The second death:

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

The question you asked was :

Is being sent to hell a literal baptism of fire?

nowhere in the bible when the term baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire do we see a context of one being sent to hell.

 

[Runningman]

The question you asked was :

Is being sent to hell a literal baptism of fire?

nowhere in the bible when the term baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire do we see a context of one being sent to hell.

Here it is:

Matthew 3:11-12
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


This is definitely talking about salvation versus hell. Matthew 13, parable of wheat and tares explained by Christ, says the wheat are righteous and the tares (chaff) are the wicked.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Mmmmm . . . I don't think so (in my opinion). It is never ok to be wrong about the Word of God, which is why Paul taught that it is best that not many of us be teachers, for we will be held accountable for leading others astray . . . hence Jeroboam. We don't want to be like Jeroboam!

ahh well it’s good I don’t think I’m a teacher and more just a guy trying to discuss Gods word and learn from it with other believers

 

[Runningman]

Here it is:

Matthew 3:11-12
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


This is definitely talking about salvation versus hell. Matthew 13, parable of wheat and tares explained by Christ, says the wheat are righteous and the tares (chaff) are the wicked.

Wicked are like chaff:

Psalm 1:4
The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

Hosea 13:2-3
2 Now they sin more and more; they make idols for themselves from their silver, cleverly fashioned images, all of them the work of craftsmen. It is said of these people, “They offer human sacrifices! They kiss calf-idols!”
3 Therefore they will be like the morning mist, like the early dew that disappears, like chaff swirling from a threshing floor, like smoke escaping through a window.

 

[Blade]

Hey all.. really great points here. My self we know John said "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire ". I've read here and others places how some try to split this just run with the word "fire" but whats written is with the holy spirit 'and" fire. Acts 2:3 "Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.". What just happened? Baptised with the Holy Spirit and divided tongues as of fire.

Again.. John said he baptised with water unto repentance. And how would you take it, understand it if he looked at you and then said "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. I fail to see how some can split them. We then read in Acts baptized with the holy spirit and tongues as of fire. Seems He did exactly as John said. And with.. not to separate things. They go together.. and with. To be more silly.. I'm going to give you a hamburger and with mustard. Them some say "how am I to eat mustard? Is not mustard used for blah blah blah.".

"Those who receive the baptism of fire is not what people sometimes think it is; again, it is a reference to hellfire." <---this here is no where in the word of God. What was added to what John said or the holy spirit was "baptism of fire". To me and I could be wrong but "and with" go together. Then reading in Acts ... praise GOD glory to Jesus.. maybe ask the one that leads and guides us into all truths about it? You were "Baptised with the Holy Spirit yes? We seem to know what baptised with water means and if we were or were not.. so where you baptised with the holy Spirit? SO much more here that is just being over looked

 

[Pilgrimshope]

[

Okie Doke, but I sure wouldn't have that view. Col 2:9-15 tells us HOW to be saved. If we don't understand HOW to be saved, we're probably not saved at all. I'd memorize those 7 verses and ponder them for a year or two.

ok brother I’m perfectly fine with it , and appreciate the conversation

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hey all.. really great points here. My self we know John said "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire ". I've read here and others places how some try to split this just run with the word "fire" but whats written is with the holy spirit 'and" fire. Acts 2:3 "Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.". What just happened? Baptised with the Holy Spirit and divided tongues as of fire.

Again.. John said he baptised with water unto repentance. And how would you take it, understand it if he looked at you and then said "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. I fail to see how some can split them. We then read in Acts baptized with the holy spirit and tongues as of fire. Seems He did exactly as John said. And with.. not to separate things. They go together.. and with. To be more silly.. I'm going to give you a hamburger and with mustard. Them some say "how am I to eat mustard? Is not mustard used for blah blah blah.".

"Those who receive the baptism of fire is not what people sometimes think it is; again, it is a reference to hellfire." <---this here is no where in the word of God. What was added to what John said or the holy spirit was "baptism of fire". To me and I could be wrong but "and with" go together. Then reading in Acts ... praise GOD glory to Jesus.. maybe ask the one that leads and guides us into all truths about it? You were "Baptised with the Holy Spirit yes? We seem to know what baptised with water means and if we were or were not.. so where you baptised with the holy Spirit? SO much more here that is just being over looked

yes always good to see another opinion

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Okie Doke, but I sure wouldn't have that view. Col 2:9-15 tells us HOW to be saved. If we don't understand HOW to be saved, we're probably not saved at all. I'd memorize those 7 verses and ponder them for a year or two.

Seems pretty plain the how to part

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sort of tells us how to be saved and warns us about how one ends up damned but it’s simple so I’m more there in that place

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Seems pretty plain the how-to part

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sort of tells us how to be saved and warns us about how one ends up damned but it’s simple so I’m more there in that place

I don't agree. This passage does [not] tell us how to be saved, for it does not clarify how we are to believe . . . or, [what] we are to believe. Demons know who Jesus is far greater than any human . . . they believe in Him made evident by how they recognize His Power and Authority, but their form of belief in Jesus did not save them. This is why John 3:16 should NOT be the most popular verse in the Bible, for the misunderstanding of John 3:16 will lead people straight to hell.

Matthew 8:28-31 NLT - "When Jesus arrived on the other side of the lake, in the region of the Gadarenes, two men who were possessed by demons met him. They lived in a cemetery and were so violent that no one could go through that area. 29 They began screaming at him, "Why are you interfering with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torture us before God's appointed time?" 30 There happened to be a large herd of pigs feeding in the distance. 31 So the demons begged, "If you cast us out, send us into that herd of pigs."

Clearly, Demons recognize the Power of Christ, and even submit to Him, but their form of belief does not save them.

To actually believe in Christ, we must be "drawn," or, enabled.

John 6:65 NIV - "He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."

 

[CS1]

Here it is:

Matthew 3:11-12
11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


This is definitely talking about salvation versus hell. Matthew 13, parable of wheat and tares explained by Christ, says the wheat are righteous and the tares (chaff) are the wicked.

two things said by John the Baptist here in John chapter 1:33 & Matthew 3:10-11


One:

• John is speaking about the coming Messiah
• he is saying He will be the one who is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirit

Two:

• The burning of Chaff speaks of HIS Final Judgment and HIS separating of those from HIS own "Wheat".

 

[CS1]

I don't agree. This passage does [not] tell us how to be saved, for it does not clarify how we are to believe . . . or, [what] we are to believe. Demons know who Jesus is far greater than any human . . . they believe in Him made evident by how they recognize His Power and Authority, but their form of belief in Jesus did not save them. This is why John 3:16 should NOT be the most popular verse in the Bible, for the misunderstanding of John 3:16 will lead people straight to hell.

Matthew 8:28-31 NLT - "When Jesus arrived on the other side of the lake, in the region of the Gadarenes, two men who were possessed by demons met him. They lived in a cemetery and were so violent that no one could go through that area. 29 They began screaming at him, "Why are you interfering with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torture us before God's appointed time?" 30 There happened to be a large herd of pigs feeding in the distance. 31 So the demons begged, "If you cast us out, send us into that herd of pigs."

Clearly, Demons recognize the Power of Christ, and even submit to Him, but their form of belief does not save them.

To actually believe in Christ, we must be "drawn," or, enabled.

John 6:65 NIV - "He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."

Believe and belief through faith is not the same thing. Demon believes because they know and have experience. Christians act on our faith even though we have not seen it, that is belief and faith.

 

[Runningman]

Hey all.. really great points here. My self we know John said "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire ". I've read here and others places how some try to split this just run with the word "fire" but whats written is with the holy spirit 'and" fire. Acts 2:3 "Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.". What just happened? Baptised with the Holy Spirit and divided tongues as of fire.

Again.. John said he baptised with water unto repentance. And how would you take it, understand it if he looked at you and then said "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. I fail to see how some can split them. We then read in Acts baptized with the holy spirit and tongues as of fire. Seems He did exactly as John said. And with.. not to separate things. They go together.. and with. To be more silly.. I'm going to give you a hamburger and with mustard. Them some say "how am I to eat mustard? Is not mustard used for blah blah blah.".

"Those who receive the baptism of fire is not what people sometimes think it is; again, it is a reference to hellfire." <---this here is no where in the word of God. What was added to what John said or the holy spirit was "baptism of fire". To me and I could be wrong but "and with" go together. Then reading in Acts ... praise GOD glory to Jesus.. maybe ask the one that leads and guides us into all truths about it? You were "Baptised with the Holy Spirit yes? We seem to know what baptised with water means and if we were or were not.. so where you baptised with the holy Spirit? SO much more here that is just being over looked

Acts 2:3 describes a baptism of the Holy Spirit accompanied by visual signs of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus had the Holy Spirit "like a dove" descend and rest upon Him. The people in the upper room, were filled with the Holy Spirit as tongues "like as of fire" rested upon them.

I think confusion is happening because the fires of judgement and the fire-like characteristics of the Holy Spirit are being used in such close proximity to each other. Let's face it', fire is a popular image in the Bible.

I think the author is going the extra mile in Matthew 3 to describe what exactly is the thing getting burned: it's chaff (wicked) and not saints.

Psalm 1:4, Hosea 13:2-3, and Matthew 13:36-43 speak of the wicked being like chaff or weeds that are destined for burning.

I don't think there is a Biblical way to make the baptism of the "Holy Spirit and of fire" essentially connected concepts that apply to the saved. Only the Holy Spirit baptism applies to Christians.00

As far as I can tell, those who have put their faith in Christ get a Holy Spirit baptism. Those who do not put their faith in Christ will be treated like chaff and burnt up in a baptism of fire which is just a way of saying they're going to hell as far as I can tell.

 

[CS1]

Then why does Matthew 3 parallel the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13? Who do you think the tares are that angels are sent out to gather and throw into the 'furnace'? Who are the wheat that will be gathered into God's kingdom?

The second death:

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

REV 21 the work of the Holy Spirit on earth seems to be Done. Judgment has nothing to do with baptism.

 

[Scribe]

What if you were to pray for ten days for the Holy Spirit to fill you and empower you to be a witness and to fulfill the great commission not in your own strength but in the power of the Holy Spirit with the signs spoken of in the book of Acts? What if you were to ask God to do for you what He did for those in the book of Acts? What if you were to reject all reasonings and explanations as to why God does not do that anymore and what if you were to not quit praying until it happened?

 

[Guojing]

What if you were to pray for ten days for the Holy Spirit to fill you and empower you to be a witness and to fulfill the great commission not in your own strength but in the power of the Holy Spirit with the signs spoken of in the book of Acts? What if you were to ask God to do for you what He did for those in the book of Acts? What if you were to reject all reasonings and explanations as to why God does not do that anymore and what if you were to not quit praying until it happened?

Nothing will happen because you are claiming promises that were never meant for you, nor for this time.

Israel the nation has currently fallen in the eyes of God (Romans 11:11)

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

What if you were to pray for ten days for the Holy Spirit to fill you and empower you to be a witness and to fulfill the great commission not in your own strength but in the power of the Holy Spirit with the signs spoken of in the book of Acts? What if you were to ask God to do for you what He did for those in the book of Acts? What if you were to reject all reasonings and explanations as to why God does not do that anymore and what if you were to not quit praying until it happened?

Why would anyone agree to something that they're unaware of? No one does this.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I don't agree. This passage does [not] tell us how to be saved, for it does not clarify how we are to believe . . . or, [what] we are to believe. Demons know who Jesus is far greater than any human . . . they believe in Him made evident by how they recognize His Power and Authority, but their form of belief in Jesus did not save them. This is why John 3:16 should NOT be the most popular verse in the Bible, for the misunderstanding of John 3:16 will lead people straight to hell.

Matthew 8:28-31 NLT - "When Jesus arrived on the other side of the lake, in the region of the Gadarenes, two men who were possessed by demons met him. They lived in a cemetery and were so violent that no one could go through that area. 29 They began screaming at him, "Why are you interfering with us, Son of God? Have you come here to torture us before God's appointed time?" 30 There happened to be a large herd of pigs feeding in the distance. 31 So the demons begged, "If you cast us out, send us into that herd of pigs."

Clearly, Demons recognize the Power of Christ, and even submit to Him, but their form of belief does not save them.

To actually believe in Christ, we must be "drawn," or, enabled.

John 6:65 NIV - "He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."

this doesn’t tell you how someone shall be saved ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬

brother ???? Can we take a few minutes to talk about faith ? Before I consider this response of yours and respond ?

sort of a pause in the conversation ? A short consideration for you ,

my position is if anyone on earth hears the gospel that Jesus Christ preached and believe it is the true words of God forever even when they haven’t heard every single detail of it , even way way before they are walking obediently in Christ , they should believe with all their heart mind body and soul that to believe in the lord Jesus as he is presented in the gospel will most assuredly be saved fin th y continue in the throngs he taught them to believe and do they will be saved

not they might be , not if they perfect themselves , not any other condition but the ones he made Repent and believe the gospel and are baptized they will 100 percent receive the Holy Spirit , and thier sins will be remitted and they will be in eternal Life with him forever

if they don’t believe that at the beginning they shouldn’t lay down thier self and follow him because it’s not worth it .

That’s my position of someone believed in Christ Jesus yesterday or one is a teacher been walking right forty years , if they both keep
In faith and hear his word it’s a done deal form that living soul

th at is my position about who’s going to be saved because that’s what he said about it I’ll never change on that view how to be saved is the simplest part of all believe in the lord Jesus Christ and you will be the rest is about the person and the Holy Ghost working it out and sharing the gospel

That’s just so you know my position on how one is saved the rest is about growth and not letting go of the gift he gave us. Belief is plenty of it’s the gospel because HE is the teacher

Here’s my question to you , what do you make of faith and salvation

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

this doesn’t tell you how someone shall be saved?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”

No. Those words do not speak of the Work of Christ. If a person does not understand the Work of Christ . . . they are likely doomed.

 

[Magenta]

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mark 16:15