DANIEL STUDY

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oldhermit

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VIII. The Rise of Antiochus Epiphanes, 11:21-12:1
“In his place (Seleucus IV) a despicable person will arise;( Antiochus IV) royal honors will not be given to him, (The nation would not, by popular consent, confer the kingdom on him as was customary,) but he will come in a time of peace (At a time when Syria was not at war) and seize the kingdom by intrigue. (In other words, this despicable person would seize the kingdom though it did not rightly belong to him.) Then a flood of forces will be swept away before him and destroyed, along with a prince of the covenant. After an alliance is made with him, he will act deceitfully; for he will rise to power with only a few people.” (NAS)

A. Antiochus Epiphanes would indeed obtain the kingdom by intrigue in 175 BC, just as verse 21 says.
The right of succession actually belonged to Demetrius I, the son of Seleucus IV, and nephew of Antiochus. According to Hans Volkmann, Professor of Ancient History at the University of Cologne, “After his [Seleucus IV] was defeated by the Romans in 190–189 BC, Antiochus IV served as a hostage for his father in Rome from 189 to 175 BC. [While in Rome, Antiochus] learned to admire Roman institutions and policies. Seleucus IV, was later able to exchange Demetrius for [Antiochus].”

Heliodorus, the man whom Seleucus had sent to collect taxes, murdered Seleucus and usurped the throne. Antiochus later overthrow him while Demetrius was still being held in Rome. Antiochus quickly made alliances with Eumenes, the king of Pergamus, as well as with Rome and others and secured their assistance in overthrowing Heliodorus. Thus, “he will come in a time of peace and seize the kingdom by intrigue.”

B. He would also destroy all who posed any threat to him seizing the throne.
Benson
[The flood of forces] “is to be understood as the forces of Attalus and Eumenes, who favored Antiochus: [with this much force behind him], his competitors for the crown, were all “swept away before him and destroyed.” (namely, Heliodorus, as well Ptolemy VI who had his own plans for Syria,)

C. He would also displace the rightful high priest. “Along with a prince of the covenant. After an alliance is made with him, he will act deceitfully;” 23 (NAS)

“As soon as Antiochus was seated on his throne, he removed Onias as the high priest, and [gave] Jason, Onias’ brother, [the office of high priest. All of this was done solely for] the…three hundred and sixty talents of silver ($7,095,330) Jason had offered for the office of high priest. Onias, [who by all accounts, was a good high priest], was not only displaced for a wicked usurper, he…was later murdered by the king’s deputy.”

“After an alliance is made with him, he will act deceitfully.” Jason was also later replaced for the same motives – money. Jason’s brother, Menelaus offered Antiochus three hundred talents more than he had received from Jason, (appx. $13,000,000) So, Antiochus sold the office of high priest to Menelaus.

D. Antiochus’ rise to power

1. Verse 24 says, “For he will rise to power with only a few people. In a time of tranquility, he will enter the richest parts of the realm, and he will accomplish what his fathers never did, nor his ancestors;”
From Barnes Notes

“The meaning of this seems to be, that at first, his own forces would be small, and that he would go up in such a way as not to excite suspicion. [He later increased] his forces, [and] united himself [with his] confederates and lured the people by the promise of rewards. By gradually taking one town after another and adding them to his dominions, he became strong.” Thus, he “seized the kingdom by intrigue.”

2. Verse 24 says, “He shall disperse among them the plunder, spoil, and riches; and he shall devise his plans against the strongholds, but only for a time.”

Antiochus was an artist at securing allegiance through the redistribution of wealth. In order to gain as much acceptance as possible among both the people and those of power and influence, Antiochus would lavish his plunder upon them. These displays of generosity were matters of public spectacle. It would seem that money and riches were important to Antiochus only as a means to an end. 1 Maccabees, 3:30 tells us that in his liberality, and in the giving of gifts, he had surpassed all the kings who had preceded him. Polybius records that when Antiochus would meet “accidentally with people whom he had never seen before, he would enrich them with unexpected presents; and sometimes, standing in the public streets, he would throw money, and cry aloud, ‘Let him take it to whom fortune shall give it.’” (Benson)

3. “And he will devise his schemes against strongholds, but only for a time.”

a. In other words, he would plot against Egypt and develop strategies for taking control of the southern kingdom.

b. “But only for a time” because, his plans for Egyptian conquest would be thwarted by Rome.

IX. Antiochus’ Campaign Against Egypt in 25-28.
“And with a large army he will stir up his power and his courage against the king of the South, (Ptolemy VI) who will mobilize a very large and powerful army but will not withstand the plots devised against him. Those who eat from his provisions will seek to destroy him; his army will be swept away, and many will fall slain.”

“And the two kings, with their hearts bent on evil, will speak lies at the same table, but to no avail, for still the end will come at the appointed time. (The time appointed by the Almighty.) The king of the North will return to his land with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant; so, he will do damage and return to his own land.”

“At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time will not be like the first. Ships of Kittim will come against him, and he will lose heart.”

A. Antiochus mobilizes against Egypt.
Barnes Notes
What Antiochus accomplished that all of his predecessors had failed to accomplish was that he took “complete control of Egypt. The wars of his predecessors with the Egyptians had been mostly waged in Coelo-Syria and Palestine, for the possession of those provinces. Antiochus, however, first took Pelusium, the key of Egypt, and then invaded Egypt itself, [and] seized upon its strongest places, and made the king a captive.”

Part of the reason for this mobilization against Egypt was a dispute over Coelo-Syria. Benson tells us that “Ptolemy demanded Antiochus surrender Coelo-Syria to him [which he felt belonged to him by] virtue of the marriage articles between Ptolemy V and Cleopatra I. But instead of complying with Ptolemy’s demand, Antiochus invaded Egypt with a vast force by both land and by sea.”

In response, Ptolemy dispatched strong forces to stop Antiochus and the two armies first met in battle between Pelusium and mount Cassius. Although Antiochus defeated the armies of Egypt, he still did not yet gain possession of Pelusium.

“In his next campaign, [Antiochus] would have greater success. He routed the Egyptians and took Pelusium, then ascended as far as Memphis, and made himself master of all Egypt.” 1 Maccabees 1:17-19 says, “Wherefore, he entered Egypt with a great multitude, with chariots, and elephants, and horsemen, and a great navy.”

Volkmann says that “in 169 BC, [Antiochus] occupied Egypt with the exception of the capitol city of Alexandria.”
B. Verse 26 says that Ptolemy's own people would also scheme against him. "…those who eat of the portion of his delicacies shall destroy him; his army shall be swept away, and many shall fall down slain.”

Volkmann says that “the misfortunes of Ptolemy were ascribed to the treachery and baseness of his own ministers and subjects. Ptolemy Macron, who was governor of Cyprus, [also] revolted [against] Ptolemy VI and delivered up [Cyprus] to Antiochus. [Even] the Alexandrians, seeing the weakness of Ptolemy VI renounced their allegiance to him and proclaimed his younger brother [Physcon] as king instead.” (The word means “fatty.” He is otherwise called Ptolemy VIII).
 

oldhermit

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C. The schemes of Antiochus against Ptolemy
Johann Jahn, in his History of the Hebrew Commonwealth, says that “Ptolemy VI was actually Antiochus IV’s nephew by his sister, Cleopatra I, who had married Ptolemy V. Antiochus [used the fact the he was the uncle of Ptolemy VI to try to justify his presence in Egypt. He] contented himself with ruling Egypt as Ptolemy’s “guardian,” giving Rome no excuse for intervention. The citizens of Alexandria, however, [because of their lack of confidence in Ptolemy VI], appealed to his brother, Physcon, to form a rival government.”

“Still, Antiochus slowly [took control] of one town after another until he finally [gained control] of the Ptolemy VI himself, and had him entirely in his power…. The pretended objective of Antiochus for this invasion in 168 BC was to support the claims of Ptolemy VI against his brother, but his real purpose was to subject the whole country to his own power.”

“Antiochus defeated the Alexandrians by sea near Pelusium, and then drew up his land forces before the city of Alexandria. Ptolemy VIII sent an embassy to Rome to solicit the protection of the Senate. At the same time, he entered into negotiations of peace with Antiochus. The proposals were rejected; but when Antiochus perceived that the conquest of Alexandria would be difficult, he retired to Memphis, and pretended to deliver the kingdom to Ptolemy VI, and having left a strong garrison at Pelusium, he returned to Antioch.”

This entire drama between Antiochus and the Ptolemies was nothing more than one big family squabble over who would rule Egypt. Just so you will understand who all the players are in this incestuous melodrama, Physcon, and Ptolemy VI were brothers. Their father was a Ptolemy V and their mother was Cleopatra I, who was the sister of Antiochus IV; thus, Physcon, and Ptolemy VI were the nephews of Antiochus IV. The wives of Physcon (Ptolemy VIII) were his sister’s, Cleopatra II and Cleopatra III. His daughter by Cleopatra III was Cleopatra the IV.

“[As for] Ptolemy VII, (the Younger), he died in 144 BC. He was the younger son and co-ruler with Ptolemy VI whom he succeeded in 145 BC. Still a minor, he was the ward of his mother, [Cleopatra II], who also served as his co-ruler. He was soon displaced by his uncle, Ptolemy VIII, who later executed him the following year.” (The Editors of Encyclopedia Britannica)

A. Antiochus’ departure from Egypt
The Roman navy which Physcon had requested, arrived to stop the invasion by Antiochus, and Jahn says that “Gaius Laenas, presented Antiochus with the ultimatum that he evacuate Egypt and Cyprus immediately. This intervention by Rome reestablished the status quo [between Syria and Egypt]. By being allowed to retain southern Syria, to which Egypt had laid claim, Antiochus was able to preserve the territorial integrity of his realm.”

“Added to the Roman intervention were the disturbances in Palestine which also forced Antiochus to return to Syria. [Antiochus then returned home with much wealth from Egypt], but he safeguarded his access to Egypt by placing a strong garrison in Pelusium.” Thus, as verse 28 says, “The king of the North will return to his land with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant; so, he will do damage (to Egypt) and return to his own land.”

B. Verses 29-30 speak of Antiochus' last attempt to invade Egypt.
“And with a large army he will stir up his power and his courage against the king of the South…”
Barnes Notes
“In the course of his reign, Antiochus invaded Egypt four different times with varying degrees of success.”

1. “In the first invasion, he took Pelusium, and having placed a garrison there, he retired to Tyre for the winter.”

2. “In the second invasion, he took Memphis and laid siege to Alexandria.”

3. “The third invasion is what is” described in verses 25-28. (See Johann Jahn's History of the Hebrew Commonwealth). This campaign is also chronicled in 1 Maccabees 1:17-19.
“And the kingdom was established before Antiochus, and he had a mind to reign over the land of Egypt, that he might reign over two kingdoms. And he ¹ into Egypt with a great multitude, with chariots and elephants, and horsemen, and a great number of ships: And he made war against Ptolemy king of Egypt, but Ptolemy was afraid at his presence, and fled, and many were wounded unto death. And he took the strong cities in the land of Egypt: and he took the spoils of the land of Egypt.”

4. Verses 29-30 say that Antiochus’ fourth invasion would not end in his favor. The last invasion “shall not be like the former or the latter.” 29
What prompted this fourth invasion was the unification of his nephews, Ptolemy VI and Physcon (Ptolemy VIII). Both had come to suspect the plans of Antiochus and agreed to join their forces and rule Egypt jointly. This did not set well with Antiochus who wanted the country divided. “When Antiochus learned of this, he prepared to invade Egypt again in 167 BC. He sent his fleet to Cyprus to secure possession of the island, and led his army toward Egypt to subdue the two Ptolemies and annex the whole country to his dominion.” (Barnes)

To prepare for an invasion by Antiochus, the two brothers hired mercenary troops from Greece and requested the support of the Roman navy. In response, the Ships of Kittim arrived from Phoenicia bringing the Roman ambassadors, and their companions to insure the peace. Antiochus had no desire to go to war against Rome so, he abandoned his efforts against Egypt and returned home in anger which he proceeded to measure out on the Jews as the following verses show.

Barnes Notes
“Antiochus was [also] greatly enraged by the effects that a report of his death had produced in Judea. It was said that all the Jews rejoiced at the report, and rose up in rebellion. Antiochus resolved to inflict revenge [on them for this rebellion so], he left Egypt, and went to Jerusalem, and subdued it by storm.”
 

oldhermit

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X. Verses 30-35 describe Antiochus’ Actions Against the Jews.
“So, he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.”

A. He would gather to himself the unfaithful Jews. This is mentioned in I Maccabees 1:17 where it describes those Jews who practiced uncircumcision.

B. He would “defile the sanctuary” by offering all manner of unclean animals on the altar.

C. He deprived the Jews of their ritual sacrifices. “Then they shall take away the daily sacrifices.” Essentially, he stopped the practices of Hebrew worship. 1 Maccabees 1:21-29, 2 Maccabees 5:5-23. This was the beginning of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:13-14.

D. He would defile the Temple of God in 169 BC by placing his own gods in the temple, thus setting up the “abomination of desolation” of verse 31; 1 Maccabees 1:46-62, 2 Maccabees 6:1-2.

E. He corrupted the priesthood. “Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery;” 32,

The result of these oppressions would be the Maccabean revolt in 167 BC, 32-35. Verses 32-33 say “But the people who know their God will firmly resist him. Those with insight will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by sword or flame, or be captured or plundered.” 1 Maccabees 1:63-4:34 give a good account of the history of the revolt.

F. The revolt was a costly victory for the Maccabeans
“Now when they fall, they will be granted a little help, but many will join them insincerely. Some of the wise will fall, so that they may be refined, purified, and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.” 34-35. This is also described in 1 Maccabees 1:20-28

“And after Antiochus had ravaged Egypt in the hundred and forty-third year, he returned and went up against Israel. And he went up to Jerusalem with a great multitude. And he proudly entered into the sanctuary, and took away the golden altar, and the candlestick of light, and all the vessels thereof, and the table of proposition, and the pouring vessels, and the vials, and the little mortars of gold, and the veil, and the crowns, and the golden ornament that was before the temple: and he broke them all in pieces. And he took the silver and gold, and the precious vessels: and he took the hidden treasures which he found: and when he had taken all away, he departed into his own country. And he made a great slaughter of men, and spoke very proudly. And there was great mourning in Israel, and in every place where they were.”

IX. Summary of the Life of Antiochus IV, 36-44
“Then the king will do as he pleases and will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been decreed must be accomplished. He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers, nor for the one desired by women, nor for any other god, because he will magnify himself above them all.”

“And in their place, he will honor a god of fortresses—a god his fathers did not know—with gold, silver, precious stones, and riches. He will attack the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him, making them rulers over many and distributing the land for a price.”

A. His arrogance

1. He exalted himself above every god including the true God, 36. The title “Epiphanes” means “god manifest.”

2. He had no regard for the gods of his fathers, 37. In other words, he rejected the Syrian gods in favor of the gods of Rome. He honored the Roman “god of fortresses” – Jupiter

B. Verses 40-43 speak of his victories,

1. Over Egypt (the King of the South)
“At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through. He shall also enter the Glorious Land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall escape from his hand: Edom, Moab, and the prominent people of Ammon. He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. He shall have power over the treasures of gold and silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; also, the Libyans and Ethiopians shall follow at his heels.”

2. Over many countries, 41
“He will extend his power over many countries, and not even the land of Egypt will escape. He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and over all the riches of Egypt, and the Libyans and Cushite will also submit to him.”

C. His atrocities against the Jews 45
“But news from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will go out with great fury to destroy many and devote them to destruction.”

D. His final end and defeat would come before the end of the 2300 days, verse 45, and Dan. 8:25.
“And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him.”

Pulpit Commentary
“One-half of his army under Lysias had been defeated by Judas Maccabaeus; he himself had been repulsed in his attempt to replenish his coffers from the temple of Nanaia and dies [of an illness at Tabae in 164 BC].”
 

Truth7t7

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IX. Summary of the Life of Antiochus IV, 36-44
“Then the king will do as he pleases and will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been decreed must be accomplished. He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers, nor for the one desired by women, nor for any other god, because he will magnify himself above them all.”

“And in their place, he will honor a god of fortresses—a god his fathers did not know—with gold, silver, precious stones, and riches. He will attack the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him, making them rulers over many and distributing the land for a price.”

A. His arrogance

1. He exalted himself above every god including the true God, 36. The title “Epiphanes” means “god manifest.”

2. He had no regard for the gods of his fathers, 37. In other words, he rejected the Syrian gods in favor of the gods of Rome. He honored the Roman “god of fortresses” – Jupiter
Amazing how the new translations have removed the true Hebrew (KJV-God) and replaced it with polytheistic (NIV-gods)

Also the change of (KJV-The Desire Of Women) to (NIV-The One Desired By Women)

The new translations, hide the identity of the future Antichrist, Little Horn, The Beast?

As the KJV clearly describes, the figure in Daniel 11:37 will not regard (The God Of His Fathers) the true Hebrew God, Diety Capital (G) this future figure will be a human man of Hebrew/Jewish decent.

This figure will not desire women, as Antiochus Epiphanies was married and fathered many children, nor did his fathers worship the true Hebrew God, capital (G)od

Antiochus Epiphanies dosen't fit the description of the figure described in Daniel 11:37KJV below.

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Daniel 11:37NIV
37 He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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The fourth beast,19-28
1. The history of the Roman Empire.
Question: When did the Roman Empire begin?
What we have to understand if we are to properly index the historical structure of this is what period of Roman history this identifies.

The history of Rome was divided into four periods of rule – The period of the kings, the period of the Republic in which the senate ruled, and Imperial Rome which was ruled by an emperor.

EARLY RULERS OF THE ROMAN REPUBLIC
The Period of the Kings lasted only 115 years, 625-510 BC.
The first period in Roman history is known as the Period of Kings which lasted from Rome’s founding in 625 BC until 510 BC. During this time, Rome was led by no fewer than six kings. Politically, this period saw the early formation of the Roman constitution. The end of the Kings came with the decline of Etruscan power, thus ushering in Rome’s Republican Period.

REPUBLICAN ROME LASTED 479 YEARS, 510-31 BC.
This period saw the rise and fall of 10 magistrates that were elected from the senate, but the power rested with the Senate, not the magistrate. These also served as commanders in chief of the army.

 Cato the Elder,

 Gracchi

 Caius Marius

 Lucius Cornelius Sulla – dictator pro tempore

 Pompey

 Marcus Licinius Crassus

 Cato the Younger

 Julius Caesar – Dictator for life

 Marc Antony, Lepidus, and Octavian (Augustus) – These three formed the second triumvirate.


The Roman Empire: A Brief History
https://www.mpm.edu/research-collec...erranean-oil-lamps/roman-empire-brief-history

“No longer ruled by kings, the Romans established a new form of government whereby the upper classes ruled, namely the senators and the knights. However, a dictator could be nominated in times of crisis. In 451 BC, the Romans established the “Twelve Tables” which was a standardized code of laws meant for public, private, and political matters.

Rome continued to expand through the Republican Period and gained control over the entire Italian peninsula by 338 BC. It was the Punic Wars from 264-146 BC, along with some conflicts with Greece, that allowed Rome to take control of Carthage and Corinth, thus becoming the dominant maritime power in the Mediterranean.

Soon after, Rome’s political atmosphere pushed the Republic into a period of chaos and civil war. This led to the election of a dictator – Cornelius Sulla, who served from 82-80 BC. Following Sulla’s resignation in 79 BC, the Republic returned to a state of unrest. [Even though] Rome continued to be governed as a Republic for another 50 years, the shift to imperialism again began to materialize in 60 BC when Julius Caesar rose to power.

Although the Senate was still Rome’s governing body, its power was weakening but was still strong enough to deny Julius Caesar’s request to be granted the title of Emperor. [Instead, the senate bestowed upon him the title of Dictator Perpetus]. Julius Caesar was assassinated in 44 BC and replaced by his heir, Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus (Octavian).”

IMPERIAL ROME LASTED 507 YEARS, 31 BC – 476 AD.
The western empire fell in 476 A.D when Odoacer, the Germanic king, deposed Romulus Augustulus. Rome’s eastern empire came to be known as the Byzantine Empire which lasted until the Islam nations defeated Constantinople in 1453 AD. Over all, Rome lasted 1,070 years from the time of Romulus in 625 BC to Romulus Augustulus in 476 A D,

In 31 BC, Octavian became dictator while Rome was still a Republic. In 44 BC, following the death of Julius Caesar, Rome found itself in a civil war struggle for power. Rather than fighting one another, Octavian, Lepidus, and Mark Antony decided to form the second triumvirate. They divided Rome into three parts. Octavian would rule the West, Antony would rule the East and Lepidus would rule Africa. Eventually, Lepidus was forced out by Octavian on the pretext of treason and Mark Antony committed suicide leaving Octavian as the sole ruler of Rome. Following his victory over Egypt in 31 BC, Octavian assumed the title of Augustus and in 27 BC, he was appointed by the Senate as the first emperor of an Imperial Rome.

2. The power of the dreadful beast
“After this, I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; It was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it….”

The power of the beast is represented by the ten horns of the beast – “and it had ten horns.” Following the consecutive line of kingdoms of Daniel’s visions, there is no question that historically, Rome was the fourth kingdom of those visions and the ten horns are ten imperial rulers of the fourth kingdom.

3. The other horn
“I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots.”

This is an eleventh horn, or king that is represented as separate from the other ten.

4. The eyes and mouth of the little horn
“And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.”

As a symbol, the use of eyes in scripture can refer to many things. It can suggest all seeing, ceaseless vigilance, wisdom, intellect, insight, understanding, and color or brilliance. Nine times in the Old Testament the Hebrew word 'ayin, “eye,” is used to represent the idea of color or brilliance (Ezekiel 1:4, 7, 16, 22, 27; 8:2; 10:9, Daniel 10:6, and Proverbs 23:31;). This may suggest that “full of eyes,” refers to their appearance as being one of shining brilliance. As it relates to the little horn it may represent intellectual shrewdness, certainly to a degree that is superior to the three which were rooted up. But, the phrase “eyes of a man” is used in conjunction with the speaking of “pompous words.” This may then suggest that this little horn viewed things only through the lens of human understanding as opposed to the saints he was persecuting who saw things through the eyes of revealed knowledge. The persecution of the saints is the result of a mind that rejects revealed knowledge because he sees reality through the eyes of a man.
I got up to this point and so far I like a lot of what you are writing.
If I may I'd like to share a point of my own to see if it is close or aligned with what you are stating.

I agree the 4th beast is both the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire.
The 4th beast with 10 horns is the Roman Republic
The 10 horns may be the tribune of the plebs.
The little horn uprising and uprooting three of the horns is the transition from Republic to Empire. I feel the three uprooted horns refers to the second triumvirate as you had mentioned above.
 

oldhermit

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I got up to this point and so far I like a lot of what you are writing.
If I may I'd like to share a point of my own to see if it is close or aligned with what you are stating.

I agree the 4th beast is both the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire.
The 4th beast with 10 horns is the Roman Republic
The 10 horns may be the tribune of the plebs.
The little horn uprising and uprooting three of the horns is the transition from Republic to Empire. I feel the three uprooted horns refers to the second triumvirate as you had mentioned above.
Actually, the horns of the beast represent individual Roman emperors. The three that are rooted up are the three emperors who rulled for a combined period of less that 2 years.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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Antiochus Epiphanies dosen't fit the description of the figure described in Daniel 11:37KJV below.

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Daniel 11:37NIV
37 He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.
Does this refer to the papal throne in which they have no interest in marrying women?
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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Actually, the horns of the beast represent individual Roman emperors. The three that are rooted up are the three emperors who rulled for a combined period of less that 2 years.
So we are not seeing eye to eye. OK, it is your thread.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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This figure will not desire women, as Antiochus Epiphanies was married and fathered many children, nor did his fathers worship the true Hebrew God, capital (G)od
Antiochus Epiphanies dosen't fit the description of the figure described in Daniel 11:37KJV below.
Daniel 11:37KJV

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Everything in the verse refers to God or gods.

He will not regard the God [plural in Hebr] of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor ANY god.

The "desire OF women" [not "the desire FOR women"] has nothing to do with sexual orientation or preference, etc.

The phrase "the desire of women" speaks to the desire of women to give birth to the Messiah, as I understand.

It has nothing to do with whether he was/would be married, or even one who dates women. ;)

Every phrase in that verse has to do with his having NO REGARD for "God / gods / the Messiah / ANY god"... nothing whatsoever about sexual orientation / -desire.

Daniel 11:37
 

Truth7t7

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Does this refer to the papal throne in which they have no interest in marrying women?
I was very clear in my explanation, the figure will be a Hebrew/Jew

Try doing a biblegateway search in the KJV on (God of his father) and your question will be answered weather this applies to Rome,the Pope or a catholic priest.

As the KJV clearly describes, the figure in Daniel 11:37 will not regard (The God Of His Fathers) the true Hebrew God, Diety Capital (G) this future figure will be a human man of Hebrew/Jewish decent.

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Daniel 11:37NIV
37 He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.
 

Truth7t7

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Actually, the horns of the beast represent individual Roman emperors. The three that are rooted up are the three emperors who rulled for a combined period of less that 2 years.
Daniel's 7:8-11 beast, little horn, is present at the second coming, final judgement,lake of fire

John's (The Beast) is seen in the same, second coming, final judgement, lake of fice, also surrounded by other beasts

Scripture clearly shows that both see 10 horns,its my opinion they are the same 10 horns

As Rev 17:12 states these Kings find their power quickly with (The Beast)

(A Future Event)

Revelation 17:12KJV
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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This figure will not desire women, as Antiochus Epiphanies was married and fathered many children, nor did his fathers worship the true Hebrew God, capital (G)od
Good job, that's the pope. You nailed it! ;)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I was very clear in my explanation, the figure will be a Hebrew/Jew

Try doing a biblegateway search in the KJV on (God of his father) and your question will be answered weather this applies to Rome,the Pope or a catholic priest.

As the KJV clearly describes, the figure in Daniel 11:37 will not regard (The God Of His Fathers) the true Hebrew God, Diety Capital (G) this future figure will be a human man of Hebrew/Jewish decent.
I've done the Bible Gateway search.

If you'll notice, in every context (verse) where it is speaking of "God," it also uses also the word "Lord" (as in, "LORD God of your/his fathers"), or otherwise clearly shows that it is speaking of same (like saying, "say unto the children of ISRAEL" etc). This verse (Dan11:37) doesn't show either of those categories (of clues).





[Additionally, (since you and I both see this person as "future"), Daniel 7:8's[11's] wording regarding the "MOUTH" corresponds precisely with the wording in Revelation 13:5-7's "MOUTH" (which I believe refers specifically to the "INDIVIDUAL / person / man"--since I believe the phrase "the beast" [Rev13:1] refers BOTH to the "system/governmental aspect" as well as to the "individual / person [/mouth] / man aspect" [the person "whose look was more stout than his fellows" per Daniel 7:20])... but since Rev13:5-7 ["MOUTH [/individual]"] is connected with 13:1, I believe "beast out from THE SEA" (v.1) refers to "[from] Gentile-nations" rather than referring to "[from] Israel"... (whereas the "another beast coming up out from THE LAND / EARTH," per v. 11, would refer to Israel)... ; IOW, Antiochus Epiphanes is a TYPE of that "future" person... and Dan11 breaks somewhere in that text from speaking of the "near-future" (A4E--the "type") to speaking of the "far-future" (future trib yrs / AC); This is related also to the phrase "the TIMES of the Gentiles" (which STARTED in 606/5 bc... and the phrase "TRODDEN DOWN of the Gentiles...")]
 

Truth7t7

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Good job, that's the pope. You nailed it! ;)
(God Of His Fathers) A Human Man, Hebrew/Jew, That Won't Desire Women.

Daniel 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Genesis 46:1KJV
1 And Israel took his journey with all that he had, and came to Beersheba, and offered sacrifices unto the God of his father Isaac.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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^ "... that won't desire women" is not in the text.

Dan11:37 and its context.


[...nor is it even implied anywhere in this context ]
 

Truth7t7

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I got up to this point and so far I like a lot of what you are writing.
If I may I'd like to share a point of my own to see if it is close or aligned with what you are stating.

I agree the 4th beast is both the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire.
The 4th beast with 10 horns is the Roman Republic
The 10 horns may be the tribune of the plebs.
The little horn uprising and uprooting three of the horns is the transition from Republic to Empire. I feel the three uprooted horns refers to the second triumvirate as you had mentioned above.
It appears that you also follow the Preterist (Historicist) reformed persuasion, nothing new :giggle:
 

oldhermit

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I. Israel’s Deliverance from Antiochus IV, 1-4
“At that time Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one who is found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever. But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

There is absolutely no end to the speculations of these four verses from every genre of Bible commentators, scholars, and students alike, whether millennialist of every description or preterists of every kind. What everyone I have read have in common is that all presume things that are not said in the text and ignore things that are said. I am not about to waste time trotting through all of the nonsensical, and absurd interpretations offered on this text. What I am going to do is simply present the text within the framework of the historical context which the text supplies and let the text speak for itself.

A. “At that time…” This establishes the temporal context.
This is the period of time Gabriel has been talking about since chapter 11. Since this refers to Antiochus Epiphanes, then what follows must be confined to the same temporal context. We must, therefore, look for the fulfillment of these prophesy in those things that occurred under Antiochus IV. (Barnes Notes)

B. “Michael, the great prince, who stands watch over your people, will rise up.”
Some commentators, such as Benson and others, attempt to interpret this as a reference to the Messiah, but there is absolutely no justification for wresting this from the rest of the context of chapters 10-12 in which Michael and Gabriel are joined in a struggle with the “Prince of Persia” on behalf of the Jews. Jesus is NOT the ark angel Michael. Nor does the temporal context concern the arrival of Israel’s Messiah. The temporal context is confined to the persecution of the Jews by Antiochus the IV.

C. “There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time.”
Since this concerns the state of the Jews in the time of Antiochus IV, this must not be taken in the general sense, nor are we permitted to expand the context to mean a general world condition. The conditions here foretold, depict a time of distress for the holy lands that had no equal in Israel’s history up to that time. These prophecies were for them and them alone. The nature of the distress would be greater than anything they had previously experienced.

This is not to be compared to the time of distress foretold by Jesus in Matthew 24:15 (although this is how it is most generally applied.) That reference by Jesus is to the time of distress mentioned in Daniel 9:27 concerning the destruction of the Jewish economy under Titus and Vespasian, not to that of Daniel 12:1.

Notice: here, Daniel limits the comparison to experiences Israel had known up “until that time.” Chapter 12 does not speak of things that may come after “that time,” but 9:27 says that there would be another time of distress in a later time that would surpass even that of Daniel 12. In Matthew 24:25, Jesus says that the time of distress Jerusalem was about to experience shortly would surpass even that mentioned in Daniel 12:1, and that nothing in Israel’s future would ever be equaled to that time of distress. “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.” Matthew 24:25.

D. “But at that time,” – At the height of these troubles.

E. “Your people (the Jews) — everyone whose name is found written in the book.”

In other words, those of Israel who would survive the persecutions of Epiphanes. Notice: this does not say “whose name is found written in the book of life” as those mentioned in Philippians 4:3 or throughout the book of Revelation. The book of which Gabriel speaks is already defined for us in 10:21 where he refers to this book as the “book of truth.”

Barnes Notes
“These are those enrolled as among the living. The idea is, that a register was made of the names of those who were to be spared by God..., and that all whose names were so recorded would be preserved. Those not so enrolled would be cut off [slain] under the persecutions of Antiochus.”

“The language here does not refer to the book of eternal life nor to salvation; nor [does] it imply that those who would be preserved would necessarily be saved. [This only refers to the fact that they would survive the persecutions of Antiochus Epiphanes]. We frequently meet with similar ideas in Scripture. The idea is, of course, poetical, but it expresses with sufficient clarity the thought that there was a Divine purpose regarding them, and that there was a definite number [apparently, of both the righteous and the unrighteous] whom God designed to keep alive, and that these would be delivered from those troubles, while many others” both righteous and unrighteous, would be slain. This seems to be part of what was recorded in the “book of truth,” the contents of which, is what Gabriel told Daniel he was revealing to him.
 

oldhermit

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F. “Will be delivered.” – by the Lord through the Maccabeans from the oppression of Antiochus IV.

G. “And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.”

This is both a warning and an encouragement. This experience may claim their life, but for the righteous, there would be the assurance that the resurrection would be favorable to them. But for the unfaithful, there was the assurance that the resurrection would be quite unfavorable.

So, why does Gabriel specify “many”? In most places in scripture, the word “many” is used to suggest a large portion of the whole, but it is also used at times to represent the whole. Barnes agrees that the natural and obvious meaning of the word "many" typically represents a portion of the whole. We would naturally accept this to be the meaning if we were to apply this to things such as “many of the residence of the city,” or “many of the trees in the forest, etc.” We would naturally take this to mean only a portion of the residents or the trees.

“In Scripture, however…, the word is sometimes used to denote the whole.” We see Paul using the word “many” in just such a way in Romans 15:15-19.

“But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, (all died) much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many (to everyone). And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses (all offenses) resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)”

“Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many (all) were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.”

These verses repeatedly use the word many to apply to the aggregate of the entire human race, or the "many" offences that man has committed. So, in our text, “many” seems to refer to all those who suffered persecution under Antiochus who now “sleep in the dust of the earth,” and who will come forth in a general resurrection.

H. “Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.” 3

The language is clearly meant to denote the righteous. The language presents us with a revealed principle that is timeless. This is true of all the faithful of all time. However, here, it is context specific. He is speaking of the influence of the righteous of Israel in this designated time of distress. These would be the instruments of spiritual reform for these will “turn many to righteousness.”

This is the same kind of language as that of 11:32-35. “Those with insight will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by sword or flame, or be captured or plundered. Now when they fall, they will be granted a little help, but many will join them insincerely. Some of the wise will fall (be killed), so that they may be refined, purified, and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.”

I. “But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end.” 4. (The time of the fulfilment of these things.) We will look at this in just a moment.

J. “Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.”
The expression to “roam to and fro” is from the Hebrew verb which always implies a search for knowledge; primarily, revealed knowledge. In Jeremiah 5:1, God said to Jeremiah, “Run to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem; See now and know; And seek in her open places if you can find a man, if there is anyone who executes judgment, who seeks the truth, and I will pardon her.”

In Zechariah 4:10, it is used of the eyes of the Lord which search Jerusalem for justice and righteousness. “For who has despised the day of small things? For these seven rejoice to see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel. They are the eyes of the Lord, which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth.”

In Amos 8:11-12, it is used prophetically of the people of Israel who would search for the word of the Lord but not find it. “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord God, when I will send a famine on the land, not a famine for bread or a thirst for water, but rather for hearing the words of the Lord. People will stagger from sea to sea and from the north even to the east, they will go to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, but they will not find it. In that day the beautiful virgins and the young men will faint from thirst.” Notice the language of desperation.

1. They stagger

2. They search diligently for it.

3. They faint from thirst.

4. But it cannot be found.

It is this atmosphere of desperation that created this type of response to the message of John the baptizer. He was the Elijah who was to break the famine by bringing the word of the Lord to a people who were starving to death spiritually.

Like Elijah in the days of Ahab, John was the breaker of the famine for the word of God. There had been no prophets since the time of Malachi and now, John comes with the message of the Kingdom of God and the coming of the long-awaited Messiah.

K. “But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end.” 4

Just as in chapter 8, the time for these things had not yet come, so, sealing up the vision was for the preservation of the mystery and the meaning of the vision, not the vision itself. These were things that were not to be understood until the time of their fulfilment was at hand. These words were to be sealed and the book shut until the time would come for these things to be fulfilled. It is supposed that Daniel died sometime between 535 and 530 BC. The time of the abomination of desolation under Antiochus IV would not occur for at least another 362 years after the time of Daniel.
 

oldhermit

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II. Temporal Context for the Fulfilment of these Things, 5-7
“Then I, Daniel, looked and saw two others standing there, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. One of them said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, ‘How long until the fulfillment of these wonders?”

“And the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by Him who lives forever, saying, 'It will be for a time, and times, and half a time. When the power of the holy people has finally been shattered, all these things will be completed.’”

A. What is the question? “How long until the fulfillment of these wonders?” What wonders?

1. The time of distress

2. The time of deliverance

B. Answer
“It will be for a time, and times, and half a time. When the power of the holy people has finally been shattered, all these things will be completed.” The period of oppression would last for approximately three- and one-half years.

“The scattered forces and people of Jews would be rallied under the Maccabees [family], and victory [would ultimately] crown their efforts, and the land would again be at peace…. [This certainly] found literal fulfillment in reign of Antiochus IV, and there can be no reasonable doubt that the primary reference of the angel was to [that appointed time].” (Barnes)

III. Sealing of the Words, 8-13
“I heard, but I did not understand. So, I asked, ‘My lord, what will be the outcome of these things?’”

“’Go on your way, Daniel,’ he replied, ‘for the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. (the appointed time of fulfilment). Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand. And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, (refers to a state of things in Jerusalem. This would be a time of national distress.) there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is he who waits and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. But as for you, go on your way until the end (the end has to relate to the completion of the 1335 days). You will rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”

Remember, Daniel is being shown how the future of the nations of the north and the south would unfold until the death of Antiochus IV. So, all of chapters 11 and 12 are connected to that period of time between 169 BC until 164 BC.

In Daniel 8, the 2300 days or 6 years, 3 months, and 20 days, were days of abomination and desolation. 8:13 informs us that the 2300 days began when Antiochus IV first took away the daily sacrifice. He also defiled the temple with pagan sacrifices, and set up the idol of Jupiter in the temple of God. It extended from there to cover the period of severe persecution of the Jews by Antiochus. All of these events ran from 171 BC when Antiochus seized the city of Jerusalem to the time when Judah, the son of Mattathias (Maccabean) restored and cleansed the temple in 164 BC, thus ending the “transgression of desolation.”

From 168 BC, verse 11 says there would be 1290 days, or 3 years and 7 months in which the sacrifices would be abolished until the temple was cleansed. This is the “time, and times, and half a time.” Then add 45 days to when the sacrifices would be reinstated. This makes the 1335 days mentioned in verse 12, or 3 years 8 months and 15 days from 168 BC to the reinstatement of the sacrifices. The year is now 164 BC, and Antiochus Epiphanes is dead.