Does anyone understand

[Magenta]

@Lafftur I hope you know I love you as a sister in Christ, and it is not out of any animosity toward you that I contest certain things you say. I also have a love of God and His revealed written Word, and do not like to see Him, or it, being misrepresented. That is not to say I contest every error I see. I would not have any time to eat or sleep if that were so I also realize I am much more circumspect than you in my expressions of love. So while in your love for Him you see Him as needing our love and being lonely without it, due to the lengths He has gone to show us His love, I affirm that God is complete unto Himself and not in need of anything, while also affirming His love for us the great lengths He has gone in order that we may know His love I must rush off to my zoom church meeting now...

 

[throughfaith]

Everyone knows that there are individual instructions in the Bible. I think we have discussed this before.

No one reads about Noah and thinks we need to build an Ark...but we see his faith and understand that we need to have faith like Noah had and obey the Lord in whatever he commands us to do. So pretty much there is the moral of that story.

I use Noah because its easy to remember. He's given the command. If you think of only the command given and ask who was the command given to to build an ark ,we understand it was Noah . This is a simple illustration to make a point. What other commands are given in the bible that just like the command for Noah to " Go build an Ark " , are not meant to us ?

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

You can quote scripture all day long but, do you know Him? Tell me about how He has loved you personally....

So it's secret knowledge beyond the revealed scripture. That's called gnosticism.

Why do you always impose upon someone who has studied the scriptures having believed and loves God according to his revealed word, that they don't "know" God?

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

@Lafftur I hope you know I love you as a sister in Christ, and it is not out of any animosity toward you that I contest certain things you say. I also have a love of God and His revealed written Word, and do not like to see Him, or it, being misrepresented. That is not to say I contest every error I see. I would not have any time to eat or sleep if that were so I also realize I am much more circumspect than you in my expressions of love. So while in your love for Him you see Him as needing our love and being lonely without it, due to the lengths He has gone to show us His love, I affirm that God is complete unto Himself and not in need of anything, while also affirming His love for us the great lengths He has gone in order that we may know His love I must rush off to my zoom church meeting now...

I honestly think she espouses gnosticism, and submit to you that she does not know God at all.

 

[oldman]

I was saved in the spring of 1991. All of it God's doing, none of mine. Been 30 years on now.

But, actually, this is off-topic. This thread is about Heb.12:22-24. Maybe you should start your own thread about this.

Does anyone remember Tom Hanks line in Forest Gump when he proposed to Jenny and she rejected him?
" I'm not a smart man but I do know what love is."
I'm like Forest in that there's a lot about GOD that I don't understand so I say
" I'm not a smart man (either) but I do know what high praise sounds like, looks like, the effect it can have" - (plus other things that slip
my memory at the moment)
The purpose of this thread was to see what knowledge, wisdom others have concerning Heb 12:22-24. Hopefully more replies will come.
Some have been of great help.

I welcome the off topic replies mostly directed to Laffur as well. It seems she is onto something.

Ya'll carry on now.

oldman

 

[GaryA]

So you believe Paul preached the exact same gospel that Jesus and the 12 were preaching in Matthew to Israel.

Would that be the correct conclusion to make?

Yes.

Thanks for sharing what you believed in.

Why would there be another Gospel?

Christ died for Jew and Gentile alike.

 

[Guojing]

Me not so much fancy this "do you believe in Jesus?" "are you sure you believe in Jesus?" "are you sure you believe in Jesus just as much as me, mysel and IIIII do?". Competitions of that kind belongs to the kindergarten.

That is how she interacts with people on this forum

 

[Guojing]

Everyone knows that there are individual instructions in the Bible. I think we have discussed this before.

No one reads about Noah and thinks we need to build an Ark...but we see his faith and understand that we need to have faith like Noah had and obey the Lord in whatever he commands us to do. So pretty much there is the moral of that story.

So what makes the great commission given to the 12 so special that we automatically think it applies to every believer other then the 12?

 

[1ofthem]

So what makes the great commission given to the 12 so special that we automatically think it applies to every believer other then the 12?

Why would you think it doesn't apply to preachers and teachers today? What's wrong with it?

Matthew 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[Guojing]

Why would you think it doesn't apply to preachers and teachers today? What's wrong with it?

Matthew 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

As you quoted, "And Jesus came and spake unto them", if there is a them, why don't you consider the possibility that it was specific instructions to them, as in the 12?

What makes this different from Noah building an ark?

Are you given the power to forgive sins like them? (John 20:23)
Are you given the same signs and wonders like them? (Mark 16:17-18)
Are you instructed to start from Jerusalem like them? (Luke's version of the GC)

So many additional instructions to them, that no one in the church nowadays believe apply to them.

What makes Matthew's version of the GC so special ?

 

[1ofthem]

As you quoted, "And Jesus came and spake unto them", if there is a them, why don't you consider the possibility that it was specific instructions to them, as in the 12?

What makes this different from Noah building an ark?

Are you given the power to forgive sins like them? (John 20:23)
Are you given the same signs and wonders like them? (Mark 16:17-18)
Are you instructed to start from Jerusalem like them? (Luke's version of the GC)

So many additional instructions to them, that no one in the church nowadays believe apply to them.

What makes Matthew's version of the GC so special ?

Is it not common sense.

Not everyone is given the same gifts and works. God gives us all individual works and individual commands as well.

Read Corinthians 12. We don't all have the same work.

So no, not everything he told the 12 is for us to do.

Some of the things he said was individual instruction.... like when he told them to go into the town and find a colt that had never been sat on and bring it to him. We are not idiots...we know we don't need to do that.

Here's the thing though, that has nothing to do with the Lord's prayer, Jesus teachings on the mount, or any other of Jesus general teachings. They are good and we need to follow them and do what he says to do.

Paul didn't go against Jesus on anything. He never told anyone not to follow Jesus teachings...did he?

 

[1ofthem]

As you quoted, "And Jesus came and spake unto them", if there is a them, why don't you consider the possibility that it was specific instructions to them, as in the 12?

What makes this different from Noah building an ark?

Are you given the power to forgive sins like them? (John 20:23)
Are you given the same signs and wonders like them? (Mark 16:17-18)
Are you instructed to start from Jerusalem like them? (Luke's version of the GC)

So many additional instructions to them, that no one in the church nowadays believe apply to them.

What makes Matthew's version of the GC so special ?

Here is an example that I used with you partner before:

He might tell me to go into a church in KY and testify. Now that is for me to do and not you.

That is individual instructions.

But when he said don't be envious, lie, commit adultery/fornication etc. etc. and Love your neighbors as your self... That is for all of us to listen and follow. It is not individual instructions. It is for me and you and everyone else.

Do you get my point here?

 

[1ofthem]

What makes Matthew's version of the GC so special ?

Well that was the verses I first thought of when you said great commission... so I posted them.

But what kind of question is that anyways...Do you have something against Matthew?

 

[Guojing]

Is it not common sense.

Not everyone is given the same gifts and works. God gives us all individual works and individual commands as well.

Read Corinthians 12. We don't all have the same work.

So no, not everything he told the 12 is for us to do.

Some of the things he said was individual instruction.... like when he told them to go into the town and find a colt that had never been sat on and bring it to him. We are not idiots...we know we don't need to do that.

Here's the thing though, that has nothing to do with the Lord's prayer, Jesus teachings on the mount, or any other of Jesus general teachings. They are good and we need to follow them and do what he says to do.

Paul didn't go against Jesus on anything. He never told anyone not to follow Jesus teachings...did he?

You have not really made your point about what is so unique about Great Commission. Paul, for one, never reminded us to follow the GC in any of the versions. Instead, our commission is given in
2 Corinthians 5:17-19

There are no instructions to

1. water baptize
2. Teach all to obey everything Christ commanded when he was alive, which includes the Law of Moses (Matthew 5:17-19)
3. start from Jerusalem
4. Signs and wonders
5. Power to forgive sins.

But never mind, I think there are too many churches who used the Matthew version of the GC as the foundation of why they exist, so I understand this is almost like an axiom, which is unquestionable.

 

[Guojing]

Why would there be another Gospel?

Christ died for Jew and Gentile alike.

Gospel means good news.

Do you think God is restricted to only one good news directed to us?

 

[1ofthem]

You have not really made your point about what is so unique about Great Commission. Paul, for one, never reminded us to follow the GC in any of the versions. Instead, our commission is given in
2 Corinthians 5:17-19

There are no instructions to

1. water baptize
2. Teach all to obey everything Christ commanded when he was alive, which includes the Law of Moses (Matthew 5:17-19)
3. start from Jerusalem
4. Signs and wonders
5. Power to forgive sins.

But never mind, I think there are too many churches who used the Matthew version of the GC as the foundation of why they exist, so I understand this is almost like an axiom, which is unquestionable.

It is common sense. I don't know how else to put it to you. Some of it is individual instructions. Some of it is not.

As for the Great Commission, here's the gist of it:
1. Preach the word and witness to others.
2. Baptize in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
3. Teach others to follow Jesus commands.

What is so hard about it that you don't want to follow it?

What is wrong with witnessing? What is wrong with Baptizing? What's wrong with teaching others to follow Jesus' commands...seeing we have them written down in scripture...but you are saying we shouldn't even follow them.

To me that is dangerous to teach others that the teaching of the Lord is not applicable and we don't need to follow them.

 

[Lafftur]

How odd of you to imply I do not know this, or Him.

It does not speak of any appreciation of me contesting what you say.

Nor does it show any knowledge of who I am or how I came to be in Him, which is disappointing coming from you.

Because I know you have heard at least some of my testimony, and my expressions of gratitude for what He has done.

I realize you like to wax poetic on certain themes and postulate much that is NOT Biblical. However, this IS the Bible Discussion Forum. If you were to say you think God is lonely, that is one thing. Making the absolute claim that He is and arguing about it as if it could be proven with Scripture is quite another. It is simply not Biblical, nor are some of your other claims. You may call it being judgmental simply because you don't like being called on it. I call it rightly dividing the Word of God.

Dear Magenta- no worries, so what if we disagree.... it really doesn’t matter, we still walk in love towards each other.

Perhaps in Heaven we’ll sit back and laugh about all the silly things we said on the BDF! Lol!

 

[Lafftur]

@Lafftur I hope you know I love you as a sister in Christ, and it is not out of any animosity toward you that I contest certain things you say. I also have a love of God and His revealed written Word, and do not like to see Him, or it, being misrepresented. That is not to say I contest every error I see. I would not have any time to eat or sleep if that were so I also realize I am much more circumspect than you in my expressions of love. So while in your love for Him you see Him as needing our love and being lonely without it, due to the lengths He has gone to show us His love, I affirm that God is complete unto Himself and not in need of anything, while also affirming His love for us the great lengths He has gone in order that we may know His love I must rush off to my zoom church meeting now...

You’re a sweetheart! I love you dearly!

 

[Magenta]

You’re a sweetheart! I love you dearly!

I love you too, dear sister, and mean no harm to you in contesting what you say

Hey, I happened to just find this

If you were to get down to the nitty-gritty motivations behind all that God does, I believe you would discover God does everything ultimately for himself, for his glory. I know it seems counterintuitive when talking about a loving God who died in the place of all sinners, but the Bible makes it very clear that all God does he ultimately does for his own glory.

According the Bible, God Does Everything for His Own Glory

God created everything through himself and for himself (Colossians 1:16). He created the world to declare his glory (Psalm 19:1-4). He formed and made man with the same intent (Isaiah 43:7). He condemns all who dishonor his name (Exodus 20:7), but he also rescues man to bring honor to his name (Jeremiah 14:7, Psalm 25:11). He rescued the Israelites for the sake of his name so he would not be profaned among the nations (Ezekiel 20:9). He parted the waters for them to gain for himself everlasting renown (Isaiah 63:12-14, Psalm 106:8). He placed Pharaoh in leadership to create for himself the opportunity to display his power and so his name would be proclaimed in all the earth (Exodus 9:16).

He makes a new covenant with his people, promising them a new heart and spirit, not for their sake but for the sake of his holy name (Ezekiel 36:22-32). He guides us in paths of righteousness for his name sake (Psalm 23:3, Psalm 31:3). He delays his wrath for his own name’s sake and for the sake of his praise, and he will not yield his glory to another (Isaiah 48:9-11). For the sake of his righteousness he made his law great and glorious (Isaiah 42:21). He has exalted his name and his word above all things for his praise (Psalm 138:1-2). He blesses people so his ways and saving power may be known among all nations so all nations will praise him (Psalm 67:1-7).

He allows some people to die so he might be glorified (John 11:4). He allows some people to be sick so the power of God may be made known (John 9:3). People are called to obedience by Jesus Christ’s power and for his name’s sake (Romans 1:5). God saves people so they might live for him (2 Corinthians 5:15, Hebrews 9:14). In everything we do, even in simple things like eating and drinking, we are commanded to do it all for the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31). Jesus sought to be glorified so he might glorify his Father (John 17:1). Jesus died on the cross to glorify his Abba (John 12:27-28). The way Jesus blesses his people is by allowing them to see his glory (John 17:24). And Jesus is the head of the church so that in everything he might have the supremacy (Colossians 1:18).

When we enter his temple, we will yell out, “Glory!” (Psalm 29:9). And when we are living in the New Jerusalem at the renewal of all things, God’s glory will replace the sun and be our light forever (Revelations 21:23). There is no doubt, God seeks glory for himself (John 8:50), for from him and through him and for him are all things, so to him be the glory forever! Amen (Romans 11:36).

Clearly, the motivation behind everything God does, even those things that benefit us, are ultimately done to exalt him. God is first and foremost for God. His supreme concern is with himself. His saving works, his grace, his damnation of sinners, his unfailing love – all of it has to do with one thing, him.

God Does Everything for His Own Glory Because He is God

God made people out of a desire to glorify himself. If it didn’t glorify God to make us, to save us, to love us, he wouldn’t have done it. God never ever puts anything above himself. The fact that God made and commands all living creatures to worship him is the very evidence he alone is God. God putting himself first is the greatest testament to God truly being God. If he were not absolutely committed to his own adoration, this would point to the fallacy of his claims that he alone deserves worship. If he placed anything above himself he would be breaking his own first commandment, “You shall have no other gods before me” (Exodus 20:3).

According to these Bible verses and many more, God really does do everything for his own glory. source

 

[GaryA]

Gospel means good news.

Do you think God is restricted to only one good news directed to us?

Yes - absolutely - by His own will.