How to be Born Again

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brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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throughfaith said:
There could never be one, as the bible makes it clear what ' election ' means .

Why do you keep saying that since I've given you many verses that plainly and clearly indicate the purpose of election is for service.

And you never even tried to explain how the verses meant something else.
You have given verses, thats it, none of them say Election has nothing to do with Salvation but only to service.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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This is really a silly argument ,it amazes me why this verse is brought up . Do you think some believe they regenerate themselves?
You obviously have no idea what regeneration is. Regeneration occurs when God's Holy Spirit fixes your heart by filling your heart with the same love shared by the Father and Son, makes us part of the body of Christ, makes us one with the Father and Son, and we become the Father's adopted children. We are either in the flesh or in the Spirit, regenerate or unregenerate, saved or unsaved. I notice that many people on CC have a head knowledge of salvation but judging from their responses, are clearly not filled with the Holy Spirit of God. These are people who try to intimidate new members by threatening banning, calling them Calvinist, trying to appear that they have understanding but are lacking in one of the main ingredients for salvation and that is the gift of the Holy Spirit which brings understanding.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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You have given verses, thats it, none of them say Election has nothing to do with Salvation but only to service.
Wow are you confused. Actually, none of them even mention salvation in them. So none of them are about salvation.

Can you understand that?

And remember that you STILL haven't provided ANY verse that says God elects people to salvation.

Because you don't have any.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Wow are you confused. Actually, none of them even mention salvation in them. So none of them are about salvation.

Can you understand that?

And remember that you STILL haven't provided ANY verse that says God elects people to salvation.

Because you don't have any.
Not one of those verses say election has nothing to do with Salvation.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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You dont understand much do you ? Coming and Believing are synonyms in scripture in this regard, notice Jn 6:35,64-65


And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

So again, man naturally cant come/believe on Christ ! He doesnt have the ability.
Umm, you have just gone too far in your definition of "believing" into something "coming". You have what the Bible says when it included the word "and", hence what Jesus is saying was that only who will "believes" will come. The action of coming is caused by believing and not the way around nor it saying an even or the same, rather "faith comes by the hearing and hearing of the word God" Romans 10:17.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Umm, you have just gone too far in your definition of "believing" into something "coming". You have what the Bible says when it included the word "and", hence what Jesus is saying was that only who will "believes" will come. The action of coming is caused by believing and not the way around nor it saying an even or the same, rather "faith comes by the hearing and hearing of the word God" Romans 10:17.
Believing and coming to Christ are same. Man can't come to Christ, don't have to the ability friend.
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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Believing and coming to Christ are same. Man can't come to Christ, don't have to the ability friend.
You really can't come if you don't believe. Well, the word "and" in your given proof scripture suggest "addition" not even.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Not one of those verses say election has nothing to do with Salvation.
You keep missing the point. The verses say NOTHING about salvation.

Can you understand this?

The verses don't HAVE TO say nothing about salvation. Because they AREN'T about salvation. They are about being chosen or elected for service.
 
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Well, so much for a no bickering thread as OP had hoped for. Yet again, ANOTHER thread derailed by the anti-Calvinist crusader. A shame......
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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Man really cant believe since He really cant come !
Umm, you need to define well what is "believe". Equating it with 'coming' is surely not its definition. For really you can't come, without believing which is the cause. For sure, you only need "receiving" which is a quite biblical definition as far as John 1:12 is concerned.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Well, so much for a no bickering thread as OP had hoped for. Yet again, ANOTHER thread derailed by the anti-Calvinist crusader. A shame......
Been late here, but is the OP talks of Calvinism? or Being Born again? Thanks
 
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Been late here, but is the OP talks of Calvinism? or Being Born again? Thanks
Was of born again, but what have seen here lately has turned to election, which many threads here in several months have turned in to.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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You keep missing the point. The verses say NOTHING about salvation.

Can you understand this?

The verses don't HAVE TO say nothing about salvation. Because they AREN'T about salvation. They are about being chosen or elected for service.
You missing the point, that you don't have a point.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
5,684
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Umm, you need to define well what is "believe". Equating it with 'coming' is surely not its definition. For really you can't come, without believing which is the cause. For sure, you only need "receiving" which is a quite biblical definition as far as John 1:12 is concerned.
Coming and believing are the same, coming to Christ or believing in Christ, and man cannot do it In 6:44,65
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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it may not always make sense. But in the case of a loving God, their can be no other way.
you can say you are a loving God, yet not show that love, doing so walks right into satans hands. And makes him a winner not a loser,,
And this is incorrect (and actually not the topic either) since unbelievers are condemned for their sin and unbelief and not because of God. I think we agree here. But once you understand that the lost state of lost men are in and by itself a condemned state, this will clear up things.
I always say if the shoe fits, it may be old to you, but it fits perfectly with what you are promoting,
and ps. Like I said, dead people can walk, they can talk, they can make decisions, they can eat or sleep, they can do lots of things, so your example of a dead person is actually less realistic than the robot
where have you ever seen a gift not something that is offered? And what do you think it means when it says whoever believes, whoever calls, whoever repents etc etc?
Guess what? I believe exactly what it says, whosoever believes - believes. But I do not insert into that "act of believing" a natural ability in natural man of "choosing" to believe. I believe what it says in Eph.2 of the state of lost men.
what do you think God does when he convicts the world of sin righteousness and judgment, the fruit of the spirit is given to them who are saved after they recieve the spirit, i would think someone like you understood this fact, repentance and faith for salvation are different things,
Yes, the Spirit convicts and then transform the sinner into a righteous man (Rom.4:5, 8:13-14). This work I attest to God alone, without the help or co-work of the sinner.

Notice what the Spirit works:

John 16

[8] And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
[9] Of sin, because they believe not on me;
[10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
[11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

So, the sinning world does NOT believe in Jesus. This is exactly what the very Spirit of God reproves the world of. The very same world that cannot also receive the Spirit (John 14:17). This means that this (the justification of the ungodly) is a translation from death to life in which God is the sole acting part.

yep he is, just like you and I could resist, it does not mean we will. What you fail to grasp is the power of God in a persons life, to bring them to repentance, Peter understood it, you have the words of eternal life, he could have like the rest left also. But why did he not? They did not believe, he was still seeking even though he did not understand at the time, he kept walking.
Like already said, the Spirit does its monergistic work in converting sinners. To not understand all is another thing altogether, someone can believe and be saved without understanding everything of God's word. How was it with those that left? We do not know for sure. But Peter being chosen, also to such a high office, we do know about.

yes, sin must be forgive, justification must occure, until then, a person remains dead, they have not been regenerated yet,
It's not that you have put up a lot of harmonizing scripture (if any) to explain your point. I see no temporal distinction between justification and regeneration, while a "logical sequence" would have them in said order. Yet let alone do I see that they are caused and conditioned upon what a spiritually dead man does.

There is no difference between a spiritual man's birth than a birth of the flesh. You just don't ask your parents as unborn to be born first and thereby cause your own birth. So, this can be foolishness for you, maybe. I will yet go with what scripture says and not what "makes sense" or is taken for granted to men.

another wasted time.
same time? Get real man, thats made up stuff, your puppet master God is not real And I have no more desire to continue this nonsensical discussion,
Up to you how you see it. It's your "choice", eh. :) But, yes, we have talked about this topic quiet a few times before. Yes, we have.