Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?
- Thread starter ronair
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I did. I posted several responses.
This is a false and foolish accusation. The idea of examining and establishing facts by witness testimony is a Biblical concept. That does not mean I think witness testimony is all equal to scripture. What a ridiculous accusation.
I notice a pattern in this thread. When certain posters have nothing to back up their position, they start accusing other posters who disagree with them.
This is a false and foolish accusation. The idea of examining and establishing facts by witness testimony is a Biblical concept. That does not mean I think witness testimony is all equal to scripture. What a ridiculous accusation.
I notice a pattern in this thread. When certain posters have nothing to back up their position, they start accusing other posters who disagree with them.
Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
You notice that you deliberately dropped the words that I have bolded, and thus came to a different interpretation?
Paul is actually saying if the gentiles are preached another gospel other than the one what they are receiving from Paul, let the preacher be accused.
Can you see you are misinterpreting it to mean "Paul also said if anyone preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed"?
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
You notice that you deliberately dropped the words that I have bolded, and thus came to a different interpretation?
Paul is actually saying if the gentiles are preached another gospel other than the one what they are receiving from Paul, let the preacher be accused.
Can you see you are misinterpreting it to mean "Paul also said if anyone preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed"?
How many times now has it been spelled out to you by others and myself how you are choosing to take certain gifts out of context and ignore scriptures that spell out that tongues, foretelling the future and special healings were
Not for you or this time? I suppose you can be an apostle too?
Not for you or this time? I suppose you can be an apostle too?
-
1
- Show all
It wasn't an exact quote, but it does not change the interpretation.
Your interpretation is not consistent with other scripture. Look at Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Look at Romans 1:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Notice 'gospel' in the singular, is the power of God unto salvation to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
See also Romans 10
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
How does this Gospel that Paul preached change between Jew and Gentile?
I Corinthians 15
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Whether you are Jew or Gentile, Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures. He was buried, and He rose again the third day.
Your interpretation is not consistent with other scripture. Look at Romans 1
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Look at Romans 1:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Notice 'gospel' in the singular, is the power of God unto salvation to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
See also Romans 10
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
How does this Gospel that Paul preached change between Jew and Gentile?
I Corinthians 15
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Whether you are Jew or Gentile, Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures. He was buried, and He rose again the third day.
You make assertions. You offer no evidence at all. No one has presented any kind of evidence that 'special healings' were for a certain time. No one even has a proof-text for that. The arguments for that are so pitiful-- assume it is the case then try to find some vague pattern than goes against the direct teaching of scripture.
John MacArthur considers 'that which is perfect' refers to the eternal state. He tries to argue against spiritual gifts by trying to make a case for the idea that miracles clustered during certain time periods of revelation.... but he is using Old Testament examples, when the New Testament predicts the Spirit being poured out upon all flesh. He cannot show where the apostles taught his theory. And he is trying to use his theory to overturn apostolic teaching. Another angle he uses is to argue that believing the teaching of scripture on spiritual gifts still stands for today is somehow against the role of scripture-- the very scripture that teaches us about these spiritual gifts. It's poor hermenuetics, which I have explained in detail earlier in the thread.
John MacArthur considers 'that which is perfect' refers to the eternal state. He tries to argue against spiritual gifts by trying to make a case for the idea that miracles clustered during certain time periods of revelation.... but he is using Old Testament examples, when the New Testament predicts the Spirit being poured out upon all flesh. He cannot show where the apostles taught his theory. And he is trying to use his theory to overturn apostolic teaching. Another angle he uses is to argue that believing the teaching of scripture on spiritual gifts still stands for today is somehow against the role of scripture-- the very scripture that teaches us about these spiritual gifts. It's poor hermenuetics, which I have explained in detail earlier in the thread.
You are too much man, it has been spelled out for you and that is not good enough and so your heading to hell for your selfish disbelief and worship of emotions rather than getting them under control. Then the evidence physically? If such things were happening? There would be a steady flow of people to het in, the woohan virus alone would have people lined up for miles to get in, you are a sham, a charlatan with nothing but empty promises and short lived emotional trip’n. God is going to reject you pleases on the judgement day....
Matthew 7:21-23 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'LORD, LORD,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'LORD, LORD, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Matthew 7:21-23 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'LORD, LORD,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'LORD, LORD, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
-
1
- Show all
This is just a really foolish response. My faith is in Christ, who died for our sins, Whom God raised from the dead. If I were a really emotional person, that wouldn't damn me. I don't worship emotions. That's a stupid accusation. Where do you get that? You don't know much about me. I could accuse you of some random stupid stuff and that would not make it true.
Name one time my emotions were out of control. Describe it specifically. You can't do it, can you, because you do not know what you are talking about.
Telling people they are going to Hell because of some stupid accusation you just made up is judging. It is also slander. Don't you think that you not sinning is more important than whether people agree with you on this issue.
Another foolish accusation. List all the promises I have made about the Wuhan virus. I believe the Spirit gifts some members of the body of Christ with gifts of healing as he wills. I did not say everyone was healed of Covid-19.
Again, you just made up an accusation, pulled out of your imagination. Are you sane?
Who is doing evil in this thread? You are making up stuff to accuse people of. Who else is slandering people here left and right?
Name one time my emotions were out of control. Describe it specifically. You can't do it, can you, because you do not know what you are talking about.
Telling people they are going to Hell because of some stupid accusation you just made up is judging. It is also slander. Don't you think that you not sinning is more important than whether people agree with you on this issue.
Another foolish accusation. List all the promises I have made about the Wuhan virus. I believe the Spirit gifts some members of the body of Christ with gifts of healing as he wills. I did not say everyone was healed of Covid-19.
Again, you just made up an accusation, pulled out of your imagination. Are you sane?
Who is doing evil in this thread? You are making up stuff to accuse people of. Who else is slandering people here left and right?
You are the one who holds to teaching contrary to biblical doctrine.
For example, I Corinthians teaches that the Spirit gifts members of the body of Christ with miracles, gifts of healing, etc. You reject this teaching with no scripture at all to back up your opinion.
Do demons teach people to believe scripture or reject it?
For example, I Corinthians teaches that the Spirit gifts members of the body of Christ with miracles, gifts of healing, etc. You reject this teaching with no scripture at all to back up your opinion.
Do demons teach people to believe scripture or reject it?
I picture in my mind the rediculousness of the following scenario:
John the apostle is very old. There is a line of people needing and seeking healing as far as the eye can see. Two younger men are behind John, holding him up. As another in the line steps forward, they grab John's arm and lay his hand on their head, and they leave healed.
Then the next, and then the next. God's healing is still continuing on.
But then the next steps forward. As the two men try to get John's arm up and lay his had on this person needing a miracle, It seems different: they lay John down and examine him: He had finally stopped breathing.
They reluctantly tell those in line close enough to hear: "Its too late. All chances are healing are gone: John is dead. "
Do I have the right idea of "Cessationism?"
John the apostle is very old. There is a line of people needing and seeking healing as far as the eye can see. Two younger men are behind John, holding him up. As another in the line steps forward, they grab John's arm and lay his hand on their head, and they leave healed.
Then the next, and then the next. God's healing is still continuing on.
But then the next steps forward. As the two men try to get John's arm up and lay his had on this person needing a miracle, It seems different: they lay John down and examine him: He had finally stopped breathing.
They reluctantly tell those in line close enough to hear: "Its too late. All chances are healing are gone: John is dead. "
Do I have the right idea of "Cessationism?"
Nice try. Everyone still makes mistakes and sins - saved or not.
Sure were are justified, but all that are saved are being sanctified. Therefore in this life each of us still remains flawed and continues to commit sins and errors.
The imperfect witness of today is not to be put on equal footing to the witness of God's scriptures. My point is valid.
Sure were are justified, but all that are saved are being sanctified. Therefore in this life each of us still remains flawed and continues to commit sins and errors.
The imperfect witness of today is not to be put on equal footing to the witness of God's scriptures. My point is valid.
a friend told me a 17 year old had a heart attack in church and died.
Ive no doubt that people can have heart attacks in church and drop dead just as someone else can be healed. someone could speak in tongues while others cant or wont. and not everyone is an apostle or teacher, their job could be to wash the stained glassed windows or to open the door to let people in.
Ive heard that some churches in modern day USA now have security guards who frisk people for guns when they go in. I guess its to stop people from killing each other....
Ive no doubt that people can have heart attacks in church and drop dead just as someone else can be healed. someone could speak in tongues while others cant or wont. and not everyone is an apostle or teacher, their job could be to wash the stained glassed windows or to open the door to let people in.
Ive heard that some churches in modern day USA now have security guards who frisk people for guns when they go in. I guess its to stop people from killing each other....