50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
If the phrase in between ("and mercy") were not present, one could conceivably read this verse as: "peace be upon them, EVEN [kai] upon the Israel of God" (as ONE ITEM / ENTITY), but there IS that intervening phrase... which separates the TWO entities being spoken of in this verse (IOW, Paul is making a point toward EACH, distinctly).
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
The Church Is The Israel Of God, Children Of The Promised Seed
Again, study the issue of the "SEED [SINGULAR]" and the "SEED [PLURAL]" in Genesis, so that you can understand accurately the point Paul is making in Galatians 3.

In your efforts to present/focus solely on the "SEED [SINGULAR]" (which indeed Paul covered in Gal3, to be sure!), do not overlook/bypass the point regarding "SEED [PLURAL]" from Genesis also. ;) (It is an important point, not to be missed... and many ppl do miss it.)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
The Church Is The Israel Of God, Children Of The Promised Seed

The Children of The Flesh (Ethnic Israel) These Are Not The Children Of God

Two Israel's Are Seen Below

1. Israel, The Church, Children of The Promised Seed

2. Israel, Children of the flesh, ethnic Israel

Roman's 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The Twelve Tribes, The Church Spread Abroad

James 1:1KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting

In this passage, you're dealing with full-blooded ethnic Israelites, the house of Jacob.
Any other opinion is Wackadoo.
At any rate you have confirmed/exposed yourself as a believer and promoter of replacement theology. A big big mistake......:oops::(
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
Again, study the issue of the "SEED [SINGULAR]" and the "SEED [PLURAL]" in Genesis, so that you can understand accurately the point Paul is making in Galatians 3.

In your efforts to present/focus solely on the "SEED [SINGULAR]" (which indeed Paul covered in Gal3, to be sure!), do not overlook/bypass the point regarding "SEED [PLURAL]" from Genesis also. ;) (It is an important point, not to be missed... and many ppl do miss it.)
The Children of The Flesh (Ethnic Israel) These Are Not The Children Of God

The Children of The Flesh (Ethnic Israel) These Are Not The Children Of God

The Children of The Flesh (Ethnic Israel) These Are Not The Children Of God

Two Israel's Are Seen Below

1. Israel, The Church, Children of The Promised Seed

2. Israel, Children of the flesh, ethnic Israel

Roman's 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The Twelve Tribes, The Church Spread Abroad

James 1:1KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
[QUOTE="And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on [epi] them, and mercy, and upon [epi] the Israel of God."

--"And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on [epi] them [ONE ITEM], and mercy [between the two items], and upon [epi] the Israel of God [SECOND of the TWO ITEMS; *THIS* one being, "those of Israel WHO BELIEVED (or even, 'those of Israel who WILL BELIEVE')]."[/QUOTE]

Lets not leave out the point of the conversation:

Galatians 6

11 See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand! 12 As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. 13 For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

To answer about Covenant Theologians if they become "spiritual Jews" or "spiritual Israel"


The answer is NO.

Jews and Gentiles are 1 in the body of Christ through the karbanot of the one true lamb Ἰησοῦς.

Our God established the covenant between Israel and Himself and if you are not Jewish then you do not belong to the same covenant, however, ALL find salvation through Christ Jesus alone, NOT BY WORKS, or THE LAW.

Genesis 17

3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram[a]; your name will be Abraham,[b] for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

Now to answer the confusion:

Although Paul states his circumcision is to no avail to him, IT IS the commandment, or mitzvot of God to be circumcised (in perpetual for all our generations) if you are of Israeli descent.

THIS IS OUR REQUIRED COVENANT - NOT YOURS.

9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring.

We as "Jews" are required to follow the mitzvah - you as gentiles are not.

This burden is not placed upon you, as you are not Jews, and is why Paul says,

"Why would you place this burden upon the pagans when we as Jews cannot follow the commands?"​

This does not nullify an Israeli following the mitzvot - we are obligated - you are not.

As Jesus said,

Matthew 5

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Isaac... not Ishmael.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting

In this passage, you're dealing with full-blooded ethnic Israelites, the house of Jacob.
Any other opinion is Wackadoo.
At any rate you have confirmed/exposed yourself as a believer and promoter of replacement theology. A big big mistake......:oops::(
James wrote to the Church, the Twelve Tribes Scattered Abroad, How Far Will One Go In Promoting The False Teachings In (Dual Covenant Theology) Jew/Church

James 1:1KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James 5:13-15KJV
13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
James wrote to the Church, the Twelve Tribes Scattered Abroad, How Far Will One Go In Promoting The False Teachings In (Dual Covenant Theology) Jew/Church

James 1:1KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

James 5:13-15KJV
13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Please stop misquoting me. I very clearly stated QUINTUPLE Covenant Theology...
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
We as "Jews" are required to follow the mitzvah - you as gentiles are not.

This burden is not placed upon you, as you are not Jews, and is why Paul says,

"Why would you place this burden upon the pagans when we as Jews cannot follow the commands?"​

This does not nullify an Israeli following the mitzvot - we are obligated - you are not.
I consider your not a Christian?

A Christian is instructed to follow the 66 books within the cannon of inspired scripture, this is all the Christian needs

The Mitzvot is governed by the (Talmud) a book outside of scripture, written by unsaved Jewish Rabbis that rejected Jesus Christ and his atonement on Calvary

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
Marriage of Judaic/Quasi Christian doctrine is for deception.

You will see that all religions will gather around the Jewish Moshiach, in which rabbinate doctrine will declare a world religion which all must follow. All rabbi or hasidic/chabad prepare for Moshiach now in gathering all resources unto themselves for Onpiov Moshiac (beast messiah).

If you are not Jewish then you may not understand what I say, only make opinion about how we live and what we believe. I tell you plainly all corporate power under this umbrella prepares now for Moshiach by capturing all wealth in the markets and real estate as you have just witnessed.

We as Jews understand this; while everyone else looks around in confusion under the spirit of antichrist, unless YHWH my God through Jesus has granted you knowledge of such. The movies, the news, the medical tyranny - all for culling the sheep AND your resources for false Moshiach.

Many do not know that we as Jews and Christians shall perish under Onpiov as we did under Hitler - this was but a shadow of the things to come as foretold by Yeshayahu, Isaiah.

What was secret in the past is now done openly as Jesus stated "Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times." matthew 16:3 - this was spoke to rabbinic thought and applies to all people under propaganda today.

It is also stated that the deception will be so great that EVEN THE APOSTLES COULD BE DECEIVED, and is the fate of all people that do not have Ruach HaKodesh, the Holy Spirit to guide them during this time.

Pray therefore that Jesus grant you His spirit that you may dwell in salvation and in the peace that only our Mashiach Jesus can give!
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
Please stop misquoting me. I very clearly stated QUINTUPLE Covenant Theology...
Hebrews 8:1-13KJV
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
I consider your not a Christian?

A Christian is instructed to follow the 66 books within the cannon of inspired scripture, this is all the Christian needs

The Mitzvot is governed by the (Talmud) a book outside of scripture, written by unsaved Jewish Rabbis that rejected Jesus Christ and his atonement on Calvary

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
You are incorrect of what you say, mitzvot of YHWH God IS NOT governed by Talmud. This is the foul spirit of antichrist lies!

careful what you say about me as you will have to answer to my Father YHWH above and in that I rest in the blood of Christ in whom my Adonai poured out for me, and in whom I make my request and shed my tears.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
Marriage of Judaic/Quasi Christian doctrine is for deception.

You will see that all religions will gather around the Jewish Moshiach, in which rabbinate doctrine will declare a world religion which all must follow. All rabbi or hasidic/chabad prepare for Moshiach now in gathering all resources unto themselves for Onpiov Moshiac (beast messiah).

If you are not Jewish then you may not understand what I say, only make opinion about how we live and what we believe. I tell you plainly all corporate power under this umbrella prepares now for Moshiach by capturing all wealth in the markets and real estate as you have just witnessed.

We as Jews understand this; while everyone else looks around in confusion under the spirit of antichrist, unless YHWH my God through Jesus has granted you knowledge of such. The movies, the news, the medical tyranny - all for culling the sheep AND your resources for false Moshiach.

Many do not know that we as Jews and Christians shall perish under Onpiov as we did under Hitler - this was but a shadow of the things to come as foretold by Yeshayahu, Isaiah.

What was secret in the past is now done openly as Jesus stated "Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times." matthew 16:3 - this was spoke to rabbinic thought and applies to all people under propaganda today.

It is also stated that the deception will be so great that EVEN THE APOSTLES COULD BE DECEIVED, and is the fate of all people that do not have Ruach HaKodesh, the Holy Spirit to guide them during this time.

Pray therefore that Jesus grant you His spirit that you may dwell in salvation and in the peace that only our Mashiach Jesus can give!
I fully agree that Judaism is preparing for their awaited upon Moshiach, who will be the Antichrist/Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast

Millennialism in the false teaching of a returned Jesus Christ to earth, taking a throne of King David in Jerusalem is preparing the way for this false Christ Moshiach

Yes Jesus Christ Warned His Followers Of This False Christ/Moshiach


Believe It Not, Go Not Forth!

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
Marriage of Judaic/Quasi Christian doctrine is for deception.

You will see that all religions will gather around the Jewish Moshiach, in which rabbinate doctrine will declare a world religion which all must follow. All rabbi or hasidic/chabad prepare for Moshiach now in gathering all resources unto themselves for Onpiov Moshiac (beast messiah).

If you are not Jewish then you may not understand what I say, only make opinion about how we live and what we believe. I tell you plainly all corporate power under this umbrella prepares now for Moshiach by capturing all wealth in the markets and real estate as you have just witnessed.

We as Jews understand this; while everyone else looks around in confusion under the spirit of antichrist, unless YHWH my God through Jesus has granted you knowledge of such. The movies, the news, the medical tyranny - all for culling the sheep AND your resources for false Moshiach.

Many do not know that we as Jews and Christians shall perish under Onpiov as we did under Hitler - this was but a shadow of the things to come as foretold by Yeshayahu, Isaiah.

What was secret in the past is now done openly as Jesus stated "Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times." matthew 16:3 - this was spoke to rabbinic thought and applies to all people under propaganda today.

It is also stated that the deception will be so great that EVEN THE APOSTLES COULD BE DECEIVED, and is the fate of all people that do not have Ruach HaKodesh, the Holy Spirit to guide them during this time.

Pray therefore that Jesus grant you His spirit that you may dwell in salvation and in the peace that only our Mashiach Jesus can give!
I am always very interested to hear the Jewish perspective. Many times it can lend interesting insights. The question of whether Israelites are to continue circumcision is quite frankly a very interesting one indeed....:unsure:
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
I am always very interested to hear the Jewish perspective. Many times it can lend interesting insights. The question of whether Israelites are to continue circumcision is quite frankly a very interesting one indeed....:unsure:
5 covenants between God and man?

God is going to instruct and bless future animal sacrifice for sin?

1 Timothy 4:1KJV

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
I am always very interested to hear the Jewish perspective. Many times it can lend interesting insights. The question of whether Israelites are to continue circumcision is quite frankly a very interesting one indeed....:unsure:
and the answer is simple - yes we are.

It is a perpetual commandment for all our generations, as is wearing tzitzit, and our Lord followed His own commandments when He walked amongst humanity.

Those who are NOT born of the covenant can enter into the rest through Jesus Ἰησοῦς
the King of Kings and Lord of Lords as ALL "Jews" must do so as well.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting

In this passage, you're dealing with full-blooded ethnic Israelites, the house of Jacob.
Any other opinion is Wackadoo.
At any rate you have confirmed/exposed yourself as a believer and promoter of replacement theology. A big big mistake......:oops::(
James was an apostle to the circumcised (Jews). That's why he is addressing the 12 tribes in that letter.

Galatians 2:8-9
8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
You are incorrect of what you say, mitzvot of YHWH God IS NOT governed by Talmud. This is the foul spirit of antichrist lies!

careful what you say about me as you will have to answer to my Father YHWH above and in that I rest in the blood of Christ in whom my Adonai poured out for me, and in whom I make my request and shed my tears.
A Christian is instructed to follow the 66 books within the cannon of inspired scripture, this is all the Christian needs

2 Timothy 3:16-17KJV

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Wikipedia: Mitzvah (/ˈmɪtsvə/, meaning "commandment", מִצְוָה‎, [mit͡sˈva], Biblical: miṣwah; plural מִצְווֹת‎ mitzvot [mit͡sˈvot], Biblical: miṣwoth; from צִוָּה‎ ṣiwwah "command") refers to a commandment commanded by God to be performed as a religious duty. Jewish law (halakha) in large part consists of discussion of these commandments. Traditionally, it is held that there are 613 such commandments.

In its secondary meaning, the word mitzvah refers to a deed performed in order to fulfill such a commandment. As such, the term mitzvah has also come to express an individual act of human kindness in keeping with the law. The expression includes a sense of heartfelt sentiment beyond mere legal duty, as "you shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18).[1]

The opinions of the Talmudic rabbis are divided between those who seek the purpose of the mitzvot and those who do not question them. The latter argue that if the reason for each mitzvah could be determined, people might try to achieve what they see as the purpose of the mitzvah, while rejecting the mitzvah itself. The former believe that if people were to understand the reason and the purpose for each mitzvah, it would actually help them to observe and perform the mitzvah. For some mitzvot, the reason is specified in the Torah.