Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[TheDivineWatermark]

How do you explain "those exiled in Egypt"? Who are they and where else in Scripture are "those exiled in Egypt" mentioned in conjunction with being raptured?

Again, they are not being "Raptured [/ SNATCHED]" (and their destination-location is not "IN THE AIR")


[Matt24:29-31 nor Isaiah 27:12-13... nor Isaiah 11:11-12,16, 12:1-6...]

 

[FreeGrace2]

You're not thinking that the word "TO" is telling of the "destination-location," are you? (It's not.)

No I'm not.

The previous phrase (right before the part you quoted, from Matt24:31) says, "[and they (His angels) shall gather His elect] FROM THE FOUR WINDS...," which phrase I've pointed out is basically the same thing that the NEXT PHRASE is also speaking of (the one you quoted), which basically means "from the EXTREMITIES" (no where left out, from where they'll be gathered)... but the "FROM THE FOUR WINDS" specifically parallels the wording in the following verses:

--"But as soon as he is established, his kingdom will be broken up and parceled out toward the four winds of heavens. It will not go to his descendants, nor will it have the authority with which he ruled, because his kingdom will be uprooted and given to others." Daniel 11:4;

--"I will bring the four winds against Elam from the four corners of the heavens, and I will scatter them to all these winds. There will not be a nation to which Elam's exiles will not go." Jeremiah 49:36;

--"Thus the goat became very great, but at the height of his power, his large horn was broken off, and four prominent horns came up in its place, pointing toward the four winds of heavens." Daniel 8:8 [see also v.22]

So far, none of these verses makes any point regarding Matt 24:29-31.

[none of these is saying ppl exited the realm of the earth and were RELOCATED elsewhere, or were COMING FROM elsewhere such as "IN THE HEAVENS" or from "IN THE AIR" or anything like that... No.]

Of course not. The point of "the 4 winds of heaven" is simply that God is GATHERING His elect from all over the world.

This isn't real difficult.

Matt 24:29-31 is clearly at the END of the Trib. When Jesus Christ comes back to earth. And we see Him GATHERING His elect from all over.

How anyone can deny Matt 24:29-31 proves a post trib rapture/gathering is beyond me.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again, they are not being "Raptured [/ SNATCHED]" (and their destination-location is not "IN THE AIR")

I don't understand how you first try to connect Isa 27 with the rapture and now you deny any connection.

[Matt24:29-31 nor Isaiah 27:12-13... nor Isaiah 11:11-12,16, 12:1-6...]

This string of passages has no meaning in and of itself.

Are you trying to make a point or something?

What is clear is that Matt 24 IS in reference to the Trib, and v.29-31 is specifically about the END of the Trib.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I don't understand how you first try to connect Isa 27 with the rapture and now you deny any connection.

I've never connected Matthew 24:29-31 NOR Isaiah 27:12-13 with "our Rapture".

YOU have (re: Matt24:29-31).

And it is so entrenched in your mind, that way, that you can't even SENSE when someone else is pointing out TO YOU that it ISN'T a RAPTURE verse / passage (neither passage is!)... and yet you continue to insist that what *YOU* think of this Matt24:29-31 passage [thinking it IS "RAPTURE"] is what *I* am POINTING OUT about it, BUT I AM NOT.

That's really crazy. LOL

 

[ChoirLoft]

Finally!!!
A worthy theologian to my challenge!

The challenge is:
Please post one verse pointing to a postrib rapture.
So far none have accepted.

Amazing how well versed you postribs are!
"Darby"
"Lahaye"
"Scoffield"
"Lies from hell"
"Satanic"
"7th trump"
"Last trump"
"After"

Add it up...remove the rapture verses...A DOCTRINE IS BORN!!!!

SMH

Please don't omit Francisco Ribera and the RCC doctrine of FUTURISM where all the heresy began.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[ChoirLoft]

I've never connected Matthew 24:29-31 NOR Isaiah 27:12-13 with "our Rapture".

YOU have (re: Matt24:29-31).

And it is so entrenched in your mind, that way, that you can't even SENSE when someone else is pointing out TO YOU that it ISN'T a RAPTURE verse / passage (neither passage is!)... and yet you continue to insist that what *YOU* think of this Matt24:29-31 passage [thinking it IS "RAPTURE"] is what *I* am POINTING OUT about it, BUT I AM NOT.

That's really crazy. LOL

When attempting to learn Biblical truth, it is always considered wise to discern the context (big picture) of many verses as well as the over all theme. From this can truths be learned and doctrine formed. Unfortunately, doctrine is most often created first, followed by bits and pieces of scripture to shore up a leaky thought.

The passage in question is lifted from a larger section of Matthew 24. Specifically verses 26 to 31. This passage describes the harvesting of humanity and its spiritual destination or destiny. While verse 31 tells us that the elect (those who belong to Christ) will be gathered by ANGELS, verse 28 tells us where the others will go. The 'others' (most often quoted by rapture apologists as evidence) are gathered by some sort of demonic entities (called vultures or eagles) and taken to a place of destruction or death (NOT HEAVEN).

Unfortunately, learning this tidbit from the Bible requires READING from scripture rather than dictating to it.

People who justify the RCC doctrine of rapture cannot or will not be able to read and understand because their minds have been blocked from knowing the truth. They are persuaded by the Great Deception and cannot believe anything except the lies they've been fed.

Continue to believe the rapture if you insist upon it. The day will come when you will learn you've been following error.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[cv5]

No I'm not.


So far, none of these verses makes any point regarding Matt 24:29-31.


Of course not. The point of "the 4 winds of heaven" is simply that God is GATHERING His elect from all over the world.

This isn't real difficult.

Matt 24:29-31 is clearly at the END of the Trib. When Jesus Christ comes back to earth. And we see Him GATHERING His elect from all over.

How anyone can deny Matt 24:29-31 proves a post trib rapture/gathering is beyond me.

You have proven that many many things are beyond you. As it stands now probably just about everything...

 

[cv5]

I've never connected Matthew 24:29-31 NOR Isaiah 27:12-13 with "our Rapture".

YOU have (re: Matt24:29-31).

And it is so entrenched in your mind, that way, that you can't even SENSE when someone else is pointing out TO YOU that it ISN'T a RAPTURE verse / passage (neither passage is!)... and yet you continue to insist that what *YOU* think of this Matt24:29-31 passage [thinking it IS "RAPTURE"] is what *I* am POINTING OUT about it, BUT I AM NOT.

That's really crazy. LOL

It's not like as if you have not stated and proven your point over and over again 100 times. These constant denials are unfounded and spiteful.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Continue to believe the rapture if you insist upon it.

Are you saying that you "do not believe the rapture" ??

 

[Wansvic]

Rapture, Tribulation, Revelation and many other misinterpretations of scripture are NOT based upon logic or revelations by the Ruach ha-Kodesh. They are based upon demonic false doctrine promoted by the Roman Catholic Church and American false prophets like John Nelson Darby.

Originally gathered into a published form by Francisco Ribera, a Jesuit priest of the Roman Catholic church, the doctrines of FUTURISM began to be promoted in the late 16th century. In the mid-19th century, John Nelson Darby a known consort of witches reformulated the RCC dogma into his version called DISPENSATIONALISM. Cyrus Scofield was so enamored of the myth that he included references to it in his chain link reference Bible. Evangelist D.L. Moody also promoted the false doctrine in his lectures and sermons. Despite the denial of these doctrines by the fathers of the Protestant Reformation they have assumed dogmatic importance and fanatical defense among those who embrace current religious theory and myth.

To this day, the Great Deception remains firmly rooted in the post protestant church - the rapture, the tribulation, false interpretations of Daniel Revelation and the gospels.

Anyone with a modicum of curiosity can discover the true roots of this deception. Anyone with an ounce of logic can discern the deception. Anyone with integrity will reject it as part of Biblical context. Sad to say there are few who fall into this group.

Christian stupidity and stubbornness is not a virtue, yet they behave as though it is.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

So if I understand correctly, you are a Preterist. One who believes the events recorded in Revelation have already taken place. And have nothing to do with the future. Is that your understanding?

Was not sure of definition of Futurism so I copied this from Internet:
"Futurism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets portions of the Book of Revelation, the Book of Ezekiel, and the Book of Daniel as future events in a literal, physical, apocalyptic, and global context.

By comparison, other Christian eschatological views interpret these passages as past events in a symbolic, historic context (Preterism and Historicism), or as present-day events in a non-literal and spiritual context (Idealism). Futurist beliefs usually have a close association with Premillennialism and Dispensationalism."

 

[Absolutely]

Please don't omit Francisco Ribera and the RCC doctrine of FUTURISM where all the heresy began.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Instead of reframing others into your extra biblical dynamics ,try a verse or two establishing your superior insight.

 

[Absolutely]

When attempting to learn Biblical truth, it is always considered wise to discern the context (big picture) of many verses as well as the over all theme. From this can truths be learned and doctrine formed. Unfortunately, doctrine is most often created first, followed by bits and pieces of scripture to shore up a leaky thought.

The passage in question is lifted from a larger section of Matthew 24. Specifically verses 26 to 31. This passage describes the harvesting of humanity and its spiritual destination or destiny. While verse 31 tells us that the elect (those who belong to Christ) will be gathered by ANGELS, verse 28 tells us where the others will go. The 'others' (most often quoted by rapture apologists as evidence) are gathered by some sort of demonic entities (called vultures or eagles) and taken to a place of destruction or death (NOT HEAVEN).

Unfortunately, learning this tidbit from the Bible requires READING from scripture rather than dictating to it.

People who justify the RCC doctrine of rapture cannot or will not be able to read and understand because their minds have been blocked from knowing the truth. They are persuaded by the Great Deception and cannot believe anything except the lies they've been fed.

Continue to believe the rapture if you insist upon it. The day will come when you will learn you've been following error.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Ok
Correct us.

History is a weapon to anti pretribbers.

That same history is usually twisted by the same people.

Try a dialogue that promotes bible study.

It should be a red flag to you postribbers that your main deal is smearing your opponent with dead man centered slander.

Try a verse.
You will find it constructive.

The dead man center you are clinging to is revealing an "out of gas" futility in your presentation

 

[Absolutely]

Please don't omit Francisco Ribera and the RCC doctrine of FUTURISM where all the heresy began.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Lol
Again, my challenge to postribs rapturists is to post a verse pointing to a postrib rapture.

You, as all others, have proven over the years, you can not defend your position.

Comical

 

[Absolutely]

Postribs are anti pretrib rapture.

Hence the extra biblical concepts and reframing of verses.

Their starting place is in their minds....not the word of God.

 

[Absolutely]

Amen brother. The time of tribulation is a time of God's wrath. Wrath which is poured out on unsaved men, and unbelieving Israel. The great tribulation is the time of Jacob's trouble.

The Church however is NOT appointed to wrath. Nor is the cast into tribulation as a testing like Jacobs house is.

No, but the Church will surely be raptured, as Jesus so affirms in Rev 3:10.

Exactly.

Attending the pretrib rapture is a command.

" pray that you may be counted worthy( as opposed to not worthy and left behind...as a foolish carnal virgin) TO ESCAPE THE THINGS ABOUT TO COME UPON THE WORLD, and stand before the son of God"

Question;
Can those that despise that concept/command ,pray that with any conviction?????

I will venture to say NOT.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I've never connected Matthew 24:29-31 NOR Isaiah 27:12-13 with "our Rapture".

Then why did you bring them up in our discussion about the rapture and Matt 24?

YOU

have (re: Matt24:29-31).

Sure. It's in the Bible and mentions a gathering at the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns at th Second (not third) Advent.

Jesus comes to earth twice. First time as a baby and suffering servant. Second time as King of kings and Lord of lords.

And it is so entrenched in your mind, that way, that you can't even SENSE when someone else is pointing out TO YOU that it ISN'T a RAPTURE verse / passage (neither passage is!)... and yet you continue to insist that what *YOU* think of this Matt24:29-31 passage [thinking it IS "RAPTURE"] is what *I* am POINTING OUT about it, BUT I AM NOT.

That's really crazy. LOL

You haven't yet proven that Matt 24 and the "gathering" in v.31 isn't about a rapture. When will you?

From 2 Thess 2:1 - ἐπισυναγωγῆς (episynagōgēs) 1997
From Matt 24:31 - ἐπισυνάξουσιν (episynaxousin) 1996

These 2 words, both translated "gathering" are very closely related. Just 1 number apart.

It is clear that 2 Thess 2:1 IS about the Second Coming, as it Matt 24 in context.

 

[Runningman]

Pre-tribbers don't like these verses and avoid them like the plague.

Mark 13:24-27
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

When attempting to learn Biblical truth, it is always considered wise to discern the context (big picture) of many verses as well as the over all theme. From this can truths be learned and doctrine formed. Unfortunately, doctrine is most often created first, followed by bits and pieces of scripture to shore up a leaky thought.

I may come back and address that thought ^ after a bit...

The passage in question is lifted from a larger section of Matthew 24. Specifically verses 26 to 31. This passage describes the harvesting of humanity and its spiritual destination or destiny. While verse 31 tells us that the elect (those who belong to Christ) will be gathered by ANGELS, verse 28 tells us where the others will go. The 'others' (most often quoted by rapture apologists as evidence) are gathered by some sort of demonic entities (called vultures or eagles) and taken to a place of destruction or death (NOT HEAVEN).
Unfortunately, learning this tidbit from the Bible requires READING from scripture rather than dictating to it.

I have read it, and studied it thoroughly.

Here's what I've said in many past posts:

--EVERYTHING in Matthew 24 [+25] is describing things FOLLOWING "our Rapture"

--"the beginning of birth PANGS" (Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11) are equivalent the SEALS of Rev6

--"the Day of the Lord" earthly-located-time-period of JUDGMENTs unfolding upon the earth *ARRIVES* like... the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... per 1Th5:2-3 (SAME THING that JESUS had spoken of, per the above entry ^ )

--Paul told the Thessalonians (2Th2:2) not to be persuaded by anyone trying to convince them "that the Day of the Lord *IS PRESENT [PERFECT indicative]*" (though that idea was a PERFECTLY *REASONABLE* thing for them to be persuaded WAS TRUE [tho it wasn't], BECAUSE of their PRESENT and ONGOING, *very negative* circumstances they already ONGOINGLY *endure* per 2Th1:4 ["persecutionS and tribulationS ye endure"])

--Paul went on to tell them, "3 that day [the time-period from the IMMEDIATELY-PRECEDING verse, in v.2! (grammatically-speaking)] will NOT be present, if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* [ONE THING *FIRST*--the noun-event of v.1! (Paul had JUST SPOKEN OF!--and which EXPLAINS the "definite article"!)] and [distinctly] the man of sin BE REVEALED..." (he is "REVEALED" at the START of the 7-yr period [2Th2:8a,9a (parallel Dan9:27a[26b], and Matt24:4/Mk13:5 [G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'] and Rev6:2 [SEAL #1])], NOT at its MIDDLE [2Th2:4], NOR at its END [2Th2:8b])...

... and he REPEATS this SEQUENCE 3x in this context (which also agrees with the SAME SEQUENCE found in his first letter, 1Th4 & 5, as well as the SAME SEQUENCE found in other *related* passages... Such as Rev5:9 showing the 24 elders saying, "hast redeemed US... out-of EVERY..." *before* the FIRST SEAL is opened, when Jesus WILL "STAND to JUDGE" Isa3:13, Rev5:6 [Lam2:3-4 parallel language to that of 2Th2:7b-8a, etc...])

[23 of 24 total mss available for Rev5:9 translate it as "US," whereas the other ONE leaves it BLANK / UNTRANSLATED]

People who justify the RCC doctrine of rapture cannot or will not be able to read and understand because their minds have been blocked from knowing the truth.

Generally speaking, the RCC does not hold to "rapture doctrine," and certainly not "pre-trib," but more akin to what y'all are presenting (that Matt24:29-31 is the gathering of the Church).

They are persuaded by the Great Deception and cannot believe anything except the lies they've been fed.

"by the Great Deception"... which passage of Scripture are you obtaining that phrase from... so I can ascertain what you mean by it? Just curious.

Continue to believe the rapture if you insist upon it. The day will come when you will learn you've been following error.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Yes, I do believe Scripture tells us of [our] "Rapture [/SNATCH / CAUGHT UP/-AWAY / harpazo / harpagēsometha ]" (but that Matt24 does NOT cover *that* Subject, whatsoever).

 

[FreeGrace2]

You have proven that many many things are beyond you. As it stands now probably just about everything...

What you have so far proven is that you have zero verses that teach clearly that resurrected/raptured believers are taken to heaven.

In spite of the clear verses about living believers being raptured. None of them say anything about then going to heaven.

So I'd say the rapture is clearly "beyond you".

There are 2 very clear verses about believers being "gathered" at the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns the Second time.

Matt 24:31 and 2 Thess 2:1.

So, there are 2 that tell us clearly WHEN the rapture occurs.

You have zero verses that tell us clearly WHEN the rapture occurs.

I have verses, which are evidence.

You have speculation and guessing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Instead of reframing others into your extra biblical dynamics ,try a verse or two establishing your superior insight.

It would be good if you could to the same. We're all waiting for some evidence for your opinions.