Support Israel? Yes or No? And Why?

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K

kaylagrl

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What I was trying to figure out is whether your view of the holocaust is influenced by your dispensationalism, or if your dispensationalism resulted from your view of the holocaust. So if I take you at your word, then the answer is closer to the former option.

That is all. No trap. Just furthering my understanding. Carry on with your holocaust/dispensationalism however you see fit.
Where did I say I didn't believe in the Covenants? Look back and see. Holocaust has nothing to do with dispensationalism.
 

CS1

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A pre-trib rapture is found no place in scripture, a false teaching planted into the Church by John N Darby in the 1850-1870 as he traveled the world in conferences with his teachings and promoted by Adulterer C.I. Scofield in his 1909 reference bible, this being the greatest world influence, promoting the false teaching
Ok so you say :) there is not .
 

CS1

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I Believe Scripture Is Very Clear On The 70 Weeks, They Are Literal And Future, And Will Be The Sign And Warning Of The Pending (Man Of Sin/Antichrist) To Follow

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.


Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

and yet you do not know fully why? because it is Prophecy .
 

Truth7t7

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You and I are not Jews!!
I'm A Jew, I Dont Know About You :giggle:

Romans 2:28-29KJV

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

Truth7t7

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and yet you do not know fully why? because it is Prophecy .
John 14:26KJV
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16KJV
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
 

Truth7t7

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Ok so you say :) there is not .
And you can't prove in scripture otherwise :)

Will you just sit back and continue to believe in Darby & Scofields Santa Claus, and his sled pulled by reindeer through the sky in a pre-trib rapture?

Jesus Is The Lord
 
Jul 9, 2020
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You and I are not Jews!!
What if we were like 10% jew? Would that be enough?

Where did I say I didn't believe in the Covenants? Look back and see. Holocaust has nothing to do with dispensationalism.
You brought up the holocaust in relation to this subject. It appeared you thought it had some connection to what we're discussing. So maybe dispensationalism isn't the correct word? I thought that's what you guys believe in? Pre-tribulation rapture? Jews/Israel being the center of attention and the "apple of God's eye" and whatnot? Is that not dispensationalism? And you tied in the holocaust and said christianity has blood on it's hands and that's why you're so motivated on this issue. It sounded like the holocaust is what drove you towards this viewpoint that you have. But then after I asked you about it, it sounded like your views on the jews was a result of your bible study rather than a cause. Fine. But now you're saying there's no correlation at all??? I give up! I'm totally confused. Why bring up the holocaust in the first place then???
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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And you can't prove in scripture otherwise :)

Will you just sit back and continue to believe in Darby & Scofields Santa Claus, and his sled pulled by reindeer through the sky in a pre-trib rapture?

Jesus Is The Lord
firs off guy you are unlearned. the orthodox church hod to the doctrine of the imminent return of christ. it is not essential to salvation but pretrib and Post trib raptures are supported by the word of God. You can mock and scoff and prove your ignorance if you like. but those who are mature understand this very well.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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firs off guy you are unlearned. the orthodox church hod to the doctrine of the imminent return of christ. it is not essential to salvation but pretrib and Post trib raptures are supported by the word of God. You can mock and scoff and prove your ignorance if you like. but those who are mature understand this very well.
I never claimed the false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture was essential to salvation

A pre-trib rapture isnt supported by scripture as you claim

The early church fathers held to the church being present on earth, seeing the Antichrist revealed and tribulation

The false teaching of a pre-trib rapture came on the world scene with John N. Darby traveling the world in conferences from 1850-1870, and the greatest influence was in Adulterer C.I. Scofields 1909 reference bible, that contained Darby's teachings, selling Millions of copies worldwide

Mock, Scoff, Ignorance?

Just The Factual Truth, A Pre-Trib Rapture Is Found No Place In The Holy Scripture

Jesus Is The Lord
 
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What if we were like 10% jew? Would that be enough?


You brought up the holocaust in relation to this subject. It appeared you thought it had some connection to what we're discussing. So maybe dispensationalism isn't the correct word? I thought that's what you guys believe in? Pre-tribulation rapture? Jews/Israel being the center of attention and the "apple of God's eye" and whatnot? Is that not dispensationalism? And you tied in the holocaust and said christianity has blood on it's hands and that's why you're so motivated on this issue. It sounded like the holocaust is what drove you towards this viewpoint that you have. But then after I asked you about it, it sounded like your views on the jews was a result of your bible study rather than a cause. Fine. But now you're saying there's no correlation at all??? I give up! I'm totally confused. Why bring up the holocaust in the first place then???
Its not a joke.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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I never claimed the false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture was essential to salvation

A pre-trib rapture rapture isnt supported by scripture as you claim

The early church fathers held to the church being present on earth, seeing the Antichrist revealed and tribulation

Mock, Scoff, Ignorance?

Just The Factual Truth, A Pre-Trib Rapture Is Found No Place In The Holy Scripture

Jesus Is The Lord
that is not true the word rapture( Latin word) is not in the Bible but harpazō is =
  1. to seize, carry off by force

from 1thess chapter 4:13_18

This is just one of many examples of the biblical understanding of the removal of the church prior to the wrath of God on the earth.
 

Truth7t7

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that is not true the word rapture( Latin word) is not in the Bible but harpazō is =
  1. to seize, carry off by force

from 1thess chapter 4:13_18

This is just one of many examples of the biblical understanding of the removal of the church prior to the wrath of God on the earth.
Will You Deny The (Last Day) Resurrection Is Seen Below?

The main scripture used by supporters of the Pre-Trib Rapture is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a Pre-Trib rapture.

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
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Will You Deny The (Last Day) Resurrection Is Seen Below?

The main scripture used by supporters of the Pre-Trib Rapture is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a Pre-Trib rapture.

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jesus is going to raise the dead and tale those who are alive.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
113
Will You Deny The (Last Day) Resurrection Is Seen Below?

The main scripture used by supporters of the Pre-Trib Rapture is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a Pre-Trib rapture.

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
I am not denying anything you need to stop. what a Joke you sound like Westboro.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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I am not denying anything you need to stop. what a Joke you sound like Westboro.
You Cant claim a scripture teaches a pre-trib rapture, when it teaches the (Last Day) resurrection

Do you acknowledge the scripture is referencing the (Last Day) resurrection of believers?

The main scripture used by supporters of the Pre-Trib Rapture is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a Pre-Trib rapture.

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 
Jul 9, 2020
846
492
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I Believe Scripture Is Very Clear On The 70 Weeks, They Are Literal And Future, And Will Be The Sign And Warning Of The Pending (Man Of Sin/Antichrist) To Follow

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.


Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Hey 7t7,
I had thought that the 70 weeks things was that a week was 7 years and that it was describing Jesus since He put an end to sacrifices. Then the Romans come in and destroyed the temple a little bit afterwards. What's the deal with that viewpoint? What, in your opinion, is the error with that viewpoint?

Don't be afraid to dummy down your answer. hahaha
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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I am not denying anything you need to stop. what a Joke you sound like Westboro.
I have no affiliation to the church below, I'm a Spirit filled Christian that loves and serves Jesus Christ my Lord, your slanderous claims are "False"

Wikipedia: Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an American hyper-Calvinist hate group.[nb 1] It is known for engaging in inflammatory homophobic and anti-American pickets, as well as hate speech against atheists, Jews, Muslims, transgender people, and numerous Christian denominations.[nb 2] It is not affiliated with any Baptist denomination and has been denounced by Baptist conventions, including the Baptist World Alliance and the Southern Baptist Convention, and by other mainstream Christian denominations.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
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You Cant claim a scripture teaches a pre-trib rapture, when it teaches the (Last Day) resurrection

Do you acknowledge the scripture is referencing the (Last Day) resurrection of believers?

The main scripture used by supporters of the Pre-Trib Rapture is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a Pre-Trib rapture.

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:23-24KJV
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
yes, I believe it does as I said there are scriptural references to support mainly the PRe-Trib and Post Raptures. YET they are non-essentials for salvation as I also said and it has been the NORMAL doctrine of the soon return of the Lord known as the Doctrine of imminence. You choose to attack those who disagree with you. That is the difference between you and others who hold the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture.

Then you have to create a false narrative that is causing false hope. They have provided scriptures that support the understanding

The very History of God supernaturally saving those from Judgement HIS Judgement is well seen.

Noah is the most notable. The crossing of the Red sea but I bet you have a Medial explanation or a different weather report than the word of God..
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
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I have no affiliation to the church below, I'm a Spirit filled Christian that loves and serves Jesus Christ my Lord, your slanderous claims are "False"

Wikipedia: Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) is an American hyper-Calvinist hate group.[nb 1] It is known for engaging in inflammatory homophobic and anti-American pickets, as well as hate speech against atheists, Jews, Muslims, transgender people, and numerous Christian denominations.[nb 2] It is not affiliated with any Baptist denomination and has been denounced by Baptist conventions, including the Baptist World Alliance and the Southern Baptist Convention, and by other mainstream Christian denominations.

Your slanderous claim is false LOL. I said you sound like I did not say you were.
 
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I don't understand Israel, you would have thought the survivors of the holocaust would be empathic towards the Palestinians. Instead they have created hell on earth there. No I don't support Israel's war especially as a cease fire was offered