TONGUES TODAY

[Major]

from post 125
"They will show you videos to reinforce their idea that once the Bible was canonized the gifts just stopped. Then show you the fake use of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and YELL SEE it has stopped."


Thank you for confirming what I have said early. You have no Biblical response to my post so you have to go to the gospel of youtube and show foolishness that WE are ready said was wrong. Yet you have no Biblical refuting of the point made the Gifts of the Holy Spirit have stopped.
I know why don't you bring up the man of a god G. Orwell again.

Actually.......there has been more than enough Bible knowledge posted on this thread for anyone who wants to know the truth of the Scriptures. But one must want to know.

I brought it up in responce to YOUR accusation that no Christian should read it! That is what YOU posted.

 

[PaulChristensen]

One picture is worth a million posts from your view!

This is based on experience coming from observation and not from Scripture. All it does is to confirm the fact that cessationists base their faith in experience concerning the supernatural gifts of the Spirit, and then say they trust in Sola Scriptura for everything else. Sounds like being double-minded to me, and we know what James says about double-minded people - unstable in all their ways!

 

[Major]

Isn't it interesting that those who were in the Strange Fire conference accused Charismatics of relying on experience rather than Scripture. But you have said what all Charismatics I know say, that the manifestation of the gifts must line up with the Word of God. The Strange Fire crowd must have a blind spot in their thinking about that, and either don't realise, or deliberately ignore, that us Charismatics adopt Sola Scriptura in our approach to the gifts, while they are relying on their "giftless" experience rather than any foundation in Scripture. In fact, they are more reliant on Calvin and other cessationist commentaries, rather than Scripture.
Michael Brown's "Authentic Fire" gives a very sound Scriptural answer to the Strange Fire accusations. I am halfway through it, and finding it very insightful.

What is really interesting is that when the REAL FIRE feel in Acts 2, IT WAS THE APOSTLES WHO SPOKE and then........

"When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs – we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

That seems to me to be very different from what is seem in operation today in modern churches.

WHY is that?????????

 

[CS1]

Actually.......there has been more than enough Bible knowledge posted on this thread for anyone who wants to know the truth of the Scriptures. But one must want to know.

I brought it up in responce to YOUR accusation that no Christian should read it! That is what YOU posted.

I do know the truth and it is not G. Orwell or Youtube video's

 

[Major]

This is based on experience coming from observation and not from Scripture. All it does is to confirm the fact that cessationists base their faith in experience concerning the supernatural gifts of the Spirit, and then say they trust in Sola Scriptura for everything else. Sounds like being double-minded to me, and we know what James says about double-minded people - unstable in all their ways!

Of course it is!

It has nothing to do with cessationalists. It has everything to do with people who are not speaking in tongues according to the direction given by God through Paul in 1 Corinthians 120-14.

Where in that video are only one or two speaking at one time?????
Where in those videos are there interpretations given??????
Where in those videos is there any identification that what was said was HEARD IN THE HEARERS OWN LANGUAGE.??????
WHY are women speaking in tongues when 1 Corth, 14:34 says that "WOMEN ARE TO BE SILENT AND NOT TO SPEAK IN TONGUES IN CHURCH"!......>WHY?

You are saying one thing which your heart wants to believe but YOU ARE NOT following the direction given in the Scriptures. Now,
who then is double minded.

You can not have it both ways!

 

[PaulChristensen]

What is really interesting is that when the REAL FIRE feel in Acts 2, IT WAS THE APOSTLES WHO SPOKE and then........

"When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs – we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.”

That seems to me to be very different from what is seem in operation today in modern churches.

WHY is that?????????

I don't know and I don't care. If people put their faith in what they either see or don't see, then that faith is not faith but presumption. True faith is based in God's Word. The Scripture says let God be true and every man a liar. Things don't always seem what they appear to be. What we observe or don't observe is not a reliable basis for doctrine. Cessation is not based on God's Word, because there are no Scriptures to support it. But continuance is supported by many Scripture references in the New Testament.

 

[Major]

I do know the truth and it is not G. Orwell or Youtube video's

Me too!

John 17:17.......
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[PaulChristensen]

Of course it is!

It has nothing to do with cessationalists. It has everything to do with people who are not speaking in tongues according to the direction given by God through Paul in 1 Corinthians 120-14.

Where in that video are only one or two speaking at one time?????
Where in those videos are there interpretations given??????
Where in those videos is there any identification that what was said was HEARD IN THE HEARERS OWN LANGUAGE.??????
WHY are women speaking in tongues when 1 Corth, 14:34 says that "WOMEN ARE TO BE SILENT AND NOT TO SPEAK IN TONGUES IN CHURCH"!......>WHY?

You are saying one thing which your heart wants to believe but YOU ARE NOT following the direction given in the Scriptures. Now,
who then is double minded.

You can not have it both ways!

I also don't care about that. If you are evaluating tongues on what you see in that video, you are being presumptuous and not using faith as the basis of your comments. All you are doing is presuming that all Charismatics use the gift of tongues as depicted in the video, instead of just some of them. To say that modern tongues is false because of a video that depicts just some who may be using it in the wrong way, is putting faith in a video instead of God's Word. And the Scripture says that without faith it is impossible to please God.

 

[Major]

I don't know and I don't care. If people put their faith in what they either see or don't see, then that faith is not faith but presumption. True faith is based in God's Word. The Scripture says let God be true and every man a liar. Things don't always seem what they appear to be. What we observe or don't observe is not a reliable basis for doctrine. Cessation is not based on God's Word, because there are no Scriptures to support it. But continuance is supported by many Scripture references in the New Testament.

And what you just said is called APATHY!

I don't know and I don't care.

THAT right there is why Bible doctrine is so alian to the average Christian.

You see, YOU just admitted what many of us already know...........
"We like what we know even if it is wrong and we are not in a hurry to know what truth is"!

Actually...Cessationalism IS based on the Word of God. "Continuaism is based on Church Denominational teaching.

The Bible literally says in 1 Corth. 13:8-9..........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.".

 

[PaulChristensen]

Me too!

John 17:17.......
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Then why are you not basing your evaluation of tongues on God's Word instead of a youtube video?

 

[Major]

I also don't care about that. If you are evaluating tongues on what you see in that video, you are being presumptuous and not using faith as the basis of your comments. All you are doing is presuming that all Charismatics use the gift of tongues as depicted in the video, instead of just some of them. To say that modern tongues is false because of a video that depicts just some who may be using it in the wrong way, is putting faith in a video instead of God's Word. And the Scripture says that without faith it is impossible to please God.

I posted those videos because everyone can not do what I have done and be present in those gatherings and in fact patriciate in them.

They were posted for visual effect of what actually happens so that you and I would not have to argue about it. ALL anyone has to do is LOOK!

Correct. Without FAITH it is impossible to please God and NO WHERE in Scripture is there a translation that SPEAKING IN GIBBERISH is pleasing to God.

In fact... God says in 1 Corth 14:33.........
"For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,".

And the next verse #34 says....."And you women, you are to be silent in church".

But in the video....do YOU see women speaking in tongues in church????????

 

[PaulChristensen]

And what you just said is called APATHY!

I don't know and I don't care.

THAT right there is why Bible doctrine is so alian to the average Christian.

You see, YOU just admitted what many of us already know...........
"We like what we know even if it is wrong and we are not in a hurry to know what truth is"!

Actually...Cessationalism IS based on the Word of God. "Continuaism is based on Church Denominational teaching.

The Bible literally says in 1 Corth. 13:8-9..........
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.".

You are quoting these verses out of context. Reliable Bible commentators equate these verses to the end of the Church Age, not the end of the Apostolic Age. If you are saying that the Scriptures are perfect, then those same Scriptures clearly show that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit are for the whole church to profit withal, and that they are distributed to all members of the body of Christ as the Spirit wills. Basing your doctrine of cessationism on just those verses is just sheer nonsense that was thought up in the 19th Century. The church fathers right through to the 4th Century testify that healing, casting out of demons and speaking with tongues continued continually in the church.

 

[Major]

Then why are you not basing your evaluation of tongues on God's Word instead of a youtube video?

Paul....I NO WHERE based any valuation on anything at all. I just post a video to show everyone what speaking in tongues in church looked like. I MADE NO EVALUATION AT ALL.

1st post...#1.........
"Is the "Tongues" we see practiced today in churches all over the land actually Biblical and valid........
OR is it an emotional exercise in religious fervor???? "

 

[PaulChristensen]

I posted those videos because everyone can not do what I have done and be present in those gatherings and in fact patriciate in them.

They were posted for visual effect of what actually happens so that you and I would not have to argue about it. ALL anyone has to do is LOOK!

Correct. Without FAITH it is impossible to please God and NO WHERE in Scripture is there a translation that SPEAKING IN GIBBERISH is pleasing to God.

In fact... God says in 1 Corth 14:33.........
"For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,".

And the next verse #34 says....."And you women, you are to be silent in church".

But in the video....do YOU see women speaking in tongues in church????????

You are still basing your view on observation and not God's Word. You are also quoting verse 34 out of context. Paul was not talking about women speaking in tongues at all. He was talking about married women questioning the content of prophecies given in church, and Paul says they should be silent about that and ask their husbands at home. You can't make the Bible say what you want it to say just to try and prove your point.

 

[Major]

You are quoting these verses out of context. Reliable Bible commentators equate these verses to the end of the Church Age, not the end of the Apostolic Age. If you are saying that the Scriptures are perfect, then those same Scriptures clearly show that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit are for the whole church to profit withal, and that they are distributed to all members of the body of Christ as the Spirit wills. Basing your doctrine of cessationism on just those verses is just sheer nonsense that was thought up in the 19th Century. The church fathers right through to the 4th Century testify that healing, casting out of demons and speaking with tongues continued continually in the church.

NO SIR I have not done that in any way.

To say that the Scriptures are in reference to the Last Days IS NOT Acceptable Christian doctrine. IT IS AOG denominational teaching so that the teaching of "CONTINUAISM" can make some kind of sense to the members of the AOG who want to speak in tongues.

YES.....I am saying that the completed Word of God is Perfect and it is the COMPLETED Word of God.

 

[Major]

You are still basing your view on observation and not God's Word. You are also quoting verse 34 out of context. Paul was not talking about women speaking in tongues at all. He was talking about married women questioning the content of prophecies given in church, and Paul says they should be silent about that and ask their husbands at home. You can't make the Bible say what you want it to say just to try and prove your point.

Correct and INCORRECT.

I based what I stated on what I HAVE OBSERVED and what I HAVE DONE while in the AOG.

Then after study and actually reading the Scriptures I had to conclude what I SAW and what I WAS DOING did not match what I READ IN THE WORD OF GOD.

So then.....someone was wrong. It was either the Bible was in error or I was in error. It was just that simple! Still is today!

 

[SophieT]

You probably overlooked when I said "modern" signs and wonders movement. I realize there were other bizarre manifestations of the "spirit" in the First and Second Great Awakenings, but they weren't sustained. The modern movement started around the turn of the 20th century and is still with us today.

no I didn't

you probably overlooked how I am not on board with much of what goes on today

however, God has not changed nor has the Holy Spirit

since you cannot be everywhere and know everything(sounds like something God has going on?) there is no way that you or anyone else can categorically deny the genuine occurring today

tongues and other gifts have been in use through the ages and if people would actually do their 'due diligence without presupposed or spoon fed so called historical 'facts', they might learn something

but like I said, I actually do not care anymore about people getting on here and spitting on people who are speaking in tongues and or experiencing other gifts. I do care about those who are hungry for God (yeah I know that sounds cliche) and desire to be filled with the Holy Spirit and experience for themselves the reality and presence of God by His Spirit in person rather than 3rd hand through scripture while denying a large portion of the NT

and guess what? I'm not doing a back and forth with you on this so ...

 

[SophieT]

You can't make the Bible say what you want it to say just to try and prove your point.

 

[Major]

Cessationism​

They worship head knowledge and think salvation is achieved by how much of the Bible they know or think they know.

They claim the gifts are not for today because it insults their intellect like the well-educated Greeks and philosophers. The Cross is foolishness to them. Paul said speaking about the "Last days in 2 Tim chapter 3 and warning bout those who have crept into the church




1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. (dynamis) And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

the gifts of the Holy Spirit offend their intelligence. Why? Because they are incapable of accepting what is clearly seen in scripture and they are embarrassed by those who have misused them. It has to be this because we agree with them of those who are fake and foolish and fleecing the flock for money.


But that's not it. They attack the Gifts of the Holy Spirit because it is not rational thinking. Yet those who attack the fake on TV and those who are perverting the gifts of the Holy Spirit for money those who also on tv speaking out against it

Wearing $1000 suites and have over 6 figure salaries.

Those who are concessionist too are very rich it seems Just not as flamboyant as those they speak out against.

FYI that is called a hypocrite. They base the whole Idea that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today not because of the foolishness of those who do abuse them no,

They will show you videos to reinforce their idea that once the Bible was canonized the gifts just stopped. Then show you the fake use of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and YELL SEE it has stopped.

But when asked please prove that 1cor chapter 13: 8-9 means the gifts have stopped


8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.


WE ask them how do you translate or interpret this to mean that the "Perfect" is the canonization of the Bible?
They can't. They will give you a history lesson and human reasoning but they can't show you from the word of God this to mean the Gifts of the Holy Spirit has stopped and not for today.



They get very mad then attack you and start to name call kind of like a liberal snowflake wearing a pink hat.

Oh wait look at this fake video of Benny Hinn, or Kenneth Copland, or this guy to that guy or women, then they jump into 1cor 14 about women being silent. All those who say this wearing $1000 suites


Excuse me please show me the proof from the Word of God?

I did! I gave you 1cor 13:8-9 you are just to wolven into your pentacostel doctrine. look at this video.

But.... 1cor 13:8-9 doesn't say the gift has ceased, it says they will cease and I am asking you how is the "perfect" to mean the bible?


IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD PERFECT!!!!!

Yes, it is amen, but so are the Holy Spirits' gifts. Has the Holy Spirit ever gave anything to the church that was not perfect?

Listen !!!!! the KJV Bible is that which was perfect to Come OK !!!!!


Ok, But Jesus said in the KJV Bible in Mark 16:15-18


5 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name, they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”


THAT WAS ADDED AN NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL TRANSLATION !!!

I see,


Thank you, and I will continue to pray with my understand and pray in the Spirit, I will lay hands on the sick and see those saved and addictions are broken by the Power of the Holy Spirit as I preach the Gospel message of the Lord Jesus Christ, having the word of God confirmed with signs & wonders.

By those set free, saved, delivered, and yes healed. IF you are not seeing that don't get mad at me because I am, You talk to your Boss and ask HIM why you are not.

you keep your power/point presentation there is no power in it so what's the point?

You think your level of knowledge, has saved you and keeps you saved. You provide no hope to the addicted or the sick because you are afraid and have doubt. You are fearful to trust God because your eyes are on those who abuse the gifts instead of keeping your eyes on Jesus. And you are more concerned about what the world thinks about you.

You think that you can save someone from error because of your human reasoning. You have an issue with those on tv then address those people not the gift of the Holy Spirit.

seeking the occult and pagan practices and trying to toe tag the Gifts of the Holy Spirit to it. Shame on you. You have an issue with

Kenneth Copland, and those on TV Please I'm sure you have the ability to get their address and phone number and speak to them about their error You have my blessing to do so.

YOU SAID..................................
Ok, But Jesus said in the KJV Bible in Mark 16:15-18


5 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name, they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”


THAT WAS ADDED AN NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL TRANSLATION !!!


Every seminary student and most all who read their Bible know what you just said.

But that is not the point is it?????

The point is.......THOSE WORDS ARE STILL IN ALL BIBLE TRANSLATIONS!

And the 2nd point is that those SIGN GIFTS WERE GIVEN TO THE ELEVEN APOSTLES1

THE 3RD POINT IS WHEN TONGUES WERE SPOKEN IN ACTS 2...IT WAS THE APOSTLES WHO SPOKE AND THOSE PRESENT HEARD THEM IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE.

 

[SophieT]

Actually.......there has been more than enough Bible knowledge posted on this thread for anyone who wants to know the truth of the Scriptures. But one must want to know.

oh the irony