About the great flood

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TheLearner

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#41
Jan 14, 2019
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#41
MoonCresta said:
Learner - please accept this respectful opinion. Once I would have believed anything that science said - really, I would have - but the older I get, the less I subscribe. I just believe science less and God more, and that's the way I am.

Regarding the flood killing children. Yes, I suppose that had to have happened. Can't explain it - I certainly don't know everything, but I do have faith that God's in charge. Why do bad things happen to good people - the age old question.
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The Science I am using has nothing to do with Evolution which I do not believe.
I am using very basic Science. On earth by observation there is more salt water than fresh water. Mixing existing fresh water with existing salt water would not have enough effect on the salt water to make a big difference.

If water covered the highest mountain in the world it would be 29,000 feet
deep and where plant life and trees were would be at 12,558 Psi.
Wood is crushed at 450 psi.
Result all plant life at that depth is destroyed.
 
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TheLearner

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#42
Jan 14, 2019
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#42
eternally-gratefull said:
The Bible says every living creature not on the ark died. I tend not to argue with the word
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Yes, and if it was a local flood, then every living creature not on the ark would die in the area that the flood covered.

Note: living creature would include plants and trees.
 
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TheLearner

Well-known member
#43
Jan 14, 2019
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#43
Wood is crushed at 450 psi
Depth 1,040 gives 450.86 psi
highest mountain in the world plus 15 cubits would be 29,000 feet deep in water to sea level.
http://www.kylesconverter.com/pressure/feet-of-water-to-pounds-per-square-inch

"The olive groves of Masía El Altet are to be found at a distance of 30 kms as the crow flies from the Mediterranean and, at the same time, at an altitude of 850 m(2,788.71 feet) above sea level."

29,000 feet minus 2,789 equals 26,211.
At a depth of 26,211 the psi is 11,362.86
 
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Evers

New member
#44
May 29, 2021
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14
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#44
TheLearner said:
The Science I am using has nothing to do with Evolution which I do not believe.
I am using very basic Science. On earth by observation there is more salt water than fresh water. Mixing existing fresh water with existing salt water would not have enough effect on the salt water to make a big difference.

If water covered the highest mountain in the world it would be 29,000 feet
deep and where plant life and trees were would be at 12,558 Psi.
Wood is crushed at 450 psi.
Result all plant life at that depth is destroyed.
Click to expand...
 
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Evers

New member
#45
May 29, 2021
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#45
So how is it possible that marine fossils have been found in multiple locations in the Himalayas? Mt. Everest also rocks with fossils of sea plants... Great Flood indeed...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#46
#46
TheLearner said:
Not at a depth of 29,000 feet with a pressure of 12,000 psi -- more exact 12,558 psi at 29,054 feet.
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Yeah? Who said the mountains where that high when the flood started? Who said it was not the thing which caused the flood to make the mountains to go that high? Your basing this whole thing on things which are not known.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47
#47
TheLearner said:
Land would only refer to the land that Noah knew about. This is a guess.
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Yes, it is a guess. But moses was told by God what to right moses did not witness any of these events. So when moses as told by God said the flood covered the highest mountain, I would not think God was trying to full noah into a worldwide flood but really only meant a local flood,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
#48
TheLearner said:
from dictionary:

"English from the 13th century. From Latin firmāmentum (from firmō (“strengthen”), from firmus (“firm”)), literally "that which strengthens or supports". The term is coined in the Vulgata in imitation of LXX στερέωμα (stereōma, “firm or solid structure”), which in turn translates Hebrew רקיע, strictly speaking a mistranslation, as the original Hebrew term meant "expanse", from the root רקע "to spread out", which in Syriac had acquired the meaning "to make firm or solid". "
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Yes firmamentm an iron firm surface. Hence the surface of the earth, which seperated the waters below in the great deep, from the waters above.

remember how the flood started, the fountains of the great deep burst open..these are the waters below the earth surface.
in fact. Two great digs have found this water, where no one though water could exist, because of the great pressures, it was heavy water,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#49
#49
TheLearner said:
I do believe the Bible. But, one must look at Science to see what was possible thus more likely. If water covered the highest mountain in the world the water would be 29,000 feet deep and where plant life and trees were would be at 12,558 Psi. One can clean a rock or drill a hole around 2,000 psi. It takes with water jets about 55,000 psi to cut rocks like using a band saw.

Wood is crushed at 450 psi

Wood Deterioration and Its Prevention by Preservative ... - Page 343
Darrel D. Nicholas

Young Earth Creationism, tries to get around all this by saying mountains shifted higher towards the end of the flood. The big problem with that is the heat generated by the plates would boil all existing life to death including Noah and his crew.

How many animals were on the arc? How much time did it take to clean up after each animal daily by 8 people? How long would it take to feed every animal? Allowing each person to sleep 8 hours, take care of themselves 2 hours, leaves 14 hours to care for the animals.
Given 30 minutes for the care of each animal times 8 people would be 16 animals per hour. times 14 hours equals 224 animals cared for per day. Think about what is involved? There is no record of using carts and ramps in Genesis on the arc. For each animal one would have to pick up or clean up the poop and pee. Maybe fill buckets with that, use a fire chain or carry each bucket to the deck to throw overboard. If they did not dispose of the waste --- it creates likelihood of disease or even methane gas. One YEC speculates that there was one master type for each kind of animal. Like a dog would have the dna in it for all the different kinds of dogs today. Since people in Noah's time were against dogs, would they even be on the arc? Let's try 5 minutes per animal. That gives us 8 people times 12 animals per hour for 96 animals per hour cared for. 96 x 14 = 1,344 animals per day cared for. Is that really realistic by human standards?

Science and common sense must be used.
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Yes one should use science,

but we should also understand that not everything we see today is as it was at the begining, Peter warned of mockers in the last day who would use this excuse to try to prove the Bible wrong..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#51
#51
TheLearner said:
Yes, and if it was a local flood, then every living creature not on the ark would die in the area that the flood covered.

Note: living creature would include plants and trees.
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The Bible says EVERY living creature

I will go with what the word said, not your adding to the word
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#52
#52
Evers said:
So how is it possible that marine fossils have been found in multiple locations in the Himalayas? Mt. Everest also rocks with fossils of sea plants... Great Flood indeed...
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Amen, even the top of the highest mountain, fossils, where did they come from?
 
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Evers

New member
#54
May 29, 2021
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#54
Matthew 4:8, KJV: "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;"
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#55
#55
TheLearner said:
I do believe the Bible. But, one must look at Science to see what was possible thus more likely. If water covered the highest mountain in the world the water would be 29,000 feet deep and where plant life and trees were would be at 12,558 Psi. One can clean a rock or drill a hole around 2,000 psi. It takes with water jets about 55,000 psi to cut rocks like using a band saw.

Wood is crushed at 450 psi

Wood Deterioration and Its Prevention by Preservative ... - Page 343
Darrel D. Nicholas

Young Earth Creationism, tries to get around all this by saying mountains shifted higher towards the end of the flood. The big problem with that is the heat generated by the plates would boil all existing life to death including Noah and his crew.

How many animals were on the arc? How much time did it take to clean up after each animal daily by 8 people? How long would it take to feed every animal? Allowing each person to sleep 8 hours, take care of themselves 2 hours, leaves 14 hours to care for the animals.
Given 30 minutes for the care of each animal times 8 people would be 16 animals per hour. times 14 hours equals 224 animals cared for per day. Think about what is involved? There is no record of using carts and ramps in Genesis on the arc. For each animal one would have to pick up or clean up the poop and pee. Maybe fill buckets with that, use a fire chain or carry each bucket to the deck to throw overboard. If they did not dispose of the waste --- it creates likelihood of disease or even methane gas. One YEC speculates that there was one master type for each kind of animal. Like a dog would have the dna in it for all the different kinds of dogs today. Since people in Noah's time were against dogs, would they even be on the arc? Let's try 5 minutes per animal. That gives us 8 people times 12 animals per hour for 96 animals per hour cared for. 96 x 14 = 1,344 animals per day cared for. Is that really realistic by human standards?

Science and common sense must be used.
Click to expand...
Oh I like your zeal in your quest on truth or common sense.

Have another one for ya.

Jesus returned to the tomb only to find his friend Lazarus dead and stinking.
Even his sister said your way to late to do anything for him.
Common sense told her and anyone else no use in disturbing this guy.
I hope you know the rest of the story.😏😏☺️☺️
 
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Evers

New member
#56
May 29, 2021
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14
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#56
pottersclay said:
Oh I like your zeal in your quest on truth or common sense.

Have another one for ya.

Jesus returned to the tomb only to find his friend Lazarus dead and stinking.
Even his sister said your way to late to do anything for him.
Common sense told her and anyone else no use in disturbing this guy.
I hope you know the rest of the story.😏😏☺️☺️
Click to expand...
 
E

Evers

New member
#57
May 29, 2021
17
14
3
#57
Miracles do happen everyday, all day long. Because around us, life bursts with mysteries water, a ray of sunshine, a leaf, a caterpillar, a flower, laughter, raindrops. If you live in awareness, it is easy to see miracles everywhere ... waking up everyday...a baby born...breathing, trees, oxygen, think about how two of each animal marching onto the ark... without attacking each other...The universe is big, it is vast, complicated, and yet simple, you pottersclay limit God... remember, God himself gave Noah instructions how to build the ark... science also teaches evolution... men evolved from monkeys... tell me if that is true... why doesn’t this happen today...
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#58
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#58
eternally-gratefull said:
The Bible says EVERY living creature

I will go with what the word said, not your adding to the word
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Genesis 7:4

Easy-to-Read Version



4 Seven days from now, I will send much rain on the earth. It will rain for 40 days and 40 nights, and I will wipe everything off the face of the earth. I will destroy everything I made.”

Plants and Trees are living things. And, would be included otherwise Noah would not have taken seeds along.

Genesis 8:22
Easy-to-Read Version
22 As long as the earth continues, there will always be a time for planting and a time for harvest. There will always be cold and hot, summer and winter, day and night on earth.”
 
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TheLearner

Well-known member
#60
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#60
Evers said:
Matthew 4:8, KJV: "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;"
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Thank you for using universal language. Mount Hermon is only 9,232 feet high. "

All one can see from it is where the Jordan River empties into the Sea of Galilee. Clearly, they would not be able to see the New World.

"Mount Hermon sits about 60 miles north of the Sea of Galilee on the modern-day borders of Israel, Syria and Lebanon. It rises over 9,000 feet in elevation. Since the Sea of Galilee sits approximately 700 feet below sea level, the top of the mountain is nearly 10,000 feet above the location of this photograph. The Old Testament city of Dan and the New Testament city of Caesarea Philippi sit near the base of the mountain." https://www.exploringbiblelands.com/journal/2016/09/29/rare-view-of-mount-hermon

From the Hebrew Bible, we know that "
In Deuteronomy 3:8-3:9 and Joshua 12:1 and 13:11, Mount Hermon is depicted as the northern boundary of the Amorite kingdom, which following the conquest by Joshua was awarded to the half-tribe of Manasseh east of the Jordan River.[16]

The Book of Chronicles mentions Mount Hermon as a place where Epher, Ishi, Eliel, Azriel, Jeremiah, Hodaviah, and Jahdiel were the heads of their families (1 Chronicles 5:23–24)."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hermon#Hermon_range

We know of other places that could be seen.

Again, they would not be able to see the New World. Native Americans came to the USA about 20,000 years ago.
 
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