Has once saved allways saved got this right
- Thread starter de-emerald
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Technically they are CORRECT, but theoretically they are not.
If you are SAVED, that means you are SAVED from eternal damnation, thus if you are SAVED you are saved from eternal damnation. The problem is people relate being SAVED with having come to Christ, but we are told by Paul and Jesus that 1.) Paul says must run the full race and 2.) Jesus says that we must ENDURE until the end (Matt. 247-14 is not about the 70th week as some suppose, it's about the Disciples and the Church Age)
So, we can't be saved from Damnation until will run the full race theoretically, but God knows those that will run the full race, so technically some are SAVED NOW and God knows it, but technically they could of course turn back to their old sinful lifestyles. So, those who use the word saved are correct that once you are saved you are aways saved because if you for to hell you were never technically saved. EXAMPLE:
If Tennesse leads Alabama 17-0 (1979 LOL) in football, then loses 27-17, were they ever "WINNING"? No, they were LOSING 17-0 at one point in time. LOL. They were never winning, they were only AHEAD 17-0.
If we come to Christ and then turn back to Satan/Evil/Sin, then were never SAVED, because we would be going to hell. We must run the full race, and Tennessee had to pay four quarters.
If you are SAVED, that means you are SAVED from eternal damnation, thus if you are SAVED you are saved from eternal damnation. The problem is people relate being SAVED with having come to Christ, but we are told by Paul and Jesus that 1.) Paul says must run the full race and 2.) Jesus says that we must ENDURE until the end (Matt. 247-14 is not about the 70th week as some suppose, it's about the Disciples and the Church Age)
So, we can't be saved from Damnation until will run the full race theoretically, but God knows those that will run the full race, so technically some are SAVED NOW and God knows it, but technically they could of course turn back to their old sinful lifestyles. So, those who use the word saved are correct that once you are saved you are aways saved because if you for to hell you were never technically saved. EXAMPLE:
If Tennesse leads Alabama 17-0 (1979 LOL) in football, then loses 27-17, were they ever "WINNING"? No, they were LOSING 17-0 at one point in time. LOL. They were never winning, they were only AHEAD 17-0.
If we come to Christ and then turn back to Satan/Evil/Sin, then were never SAVED, because we would be going to hell. We must run the full race, and Tennessee had to pay four quarters.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
This is also my concern your story is very simalar to mine.
For me a person who is possessed by a demon needs the spirit of God to enter them to be saved. This is very clear in the bible. and by all accounts this is how a person is set free. the spirit of God enters a person and the evil spirit is expelled.
1 This means to me that the holy spirit can enter a temple (your body that is unclean)
2 this also means to me that the holy spirit will dwell in a temple that is unclean.
3 but then where told in the bible the same person who was possessed can be repossessed.
This is very confusing the person has had the spirit of God enter them. but yet they have become repossessed.
The bible says you can not be born again unless you born again of the spirit (recieve the holy spirit)
surely the person who has had an evil spirit removed from there body has recieved the holy spirit. And Jesus has rescued them.
For me a person who is possessed by a demon needs the spirit of God to enter them to be saved. This is very clear in the bible. and by all accounts this is how a person is set free. the spirit of God enters a person and the evil spirit is expelled.
1 This means to me that the holy spirit can enter a temple (your body that is unclean)
2 this also means to me that the holy spirit will dwell in a temple that is unclean.
3 but then where told in the bible the same person who was possessed can be repossessed.
This is very confusing the person has had the spirit of God enter them. but yet they have become repossessed.
The bible says you can not be born again unless you born again of the spirit (recieve the holy spirit)
surely the person who has had an evil spirit removed from there body has recieved the holy spirit. And Jesus has rescued them.
you say it doesnt, then how do you explain this
Luke 11:24-26 24"When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' 25When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first."
Luke 11:24-26 24"When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' 25When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first."
-
1
- Show all
Satan believes and trembles if you think FAITH is simply BELIVING on God you sir are sadly mistaken. Jesus explicitly says there will be many people that have done many things in my name, and I will say depart from me for I never knew you. It's not WORKS per se, as you seem to suggest, instead it's FAITH that shows our WORKS.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Going to church one hour a week, reading the bible a little bit, then watching college and pro football all weekend ain't a man with God's heart. There are millions of unsaved people in this world, billions I might and, we are Watching the movie Dumb and Dumber or watching sports, that is not a heart after God's heart. God's heart cries for the lost, thus we should have a burden that if we walk downtown somewhere, and they are partying, etc., etc. our hearts should be so burdened we are nigh tears in our hearts because God's heart is aching for the lost souls.
Simply saying I BELIEVE doesn't;t get you or anyone to Heaven, because God sees OUR HEARTS if we really, really believe, then our Hearts are never the same again, we have a burden for the lost, people like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi think God, excerpts their lies whilst the work evil? LOL, It ain't happening, the same can be said for many Republicans, the point is, God, sees THE HEART, He judges the heart that the deceiving mouth which says this, this and this. You think a priest that marries two homosexuals is going to Heaven unless he REPENTS and CONFESSES his sins? The mouth can say anything, God knows yours and my every thought.
Judas was a Disciple of Jesus and he turned unto Satan. It's true, we are saved by faith alone in the Messiah, but people forget this one condition, you have to REPENT FIRST, and turn from your sins. Then you/we all shall be SAVED. Thus if you turn back to evil and love evil more than God, you are not maki Heave. What do you thin the 10 Virgins stand for? ALL Christendom !! So how many are going to make even out of the supposed 2 billion on this earth according to Jesus' own parable? Only 1 Billion. Only 5 of the virgins make the Wedding in Heaven, the rest are our trying to buy oil for the lamp.
God sees the Heart, He sees hucksters. If we think we can just say, I BELIVE, but then love this world or God, Jesus told us what will happen. He said if you love this world the love of God is NOT IN YOU. Just saying I BELIVE, is not FAITH in Jesus, picking up our cross and FOLLOWING Jesus is what FAITH is. If we BELIVE then every day we seek to be more and more like Jesus, tats what Christian means Christ-like. If someone spends 30 hours a week watching sports, I don't think they will make Heaven via the Rapture honestly, IMHO, that is that man LOVING this world over God.
Simply, BELIEVING Jesus is the Messiah will not get you to heaven. We have to be IMMERSED in Christ AND the Holy Spirit. Simply believing in Jesus is what cleanses us, but if we love this world more than Jesus then we have gone back to the pig pen.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Going to church one hour a week, reading the bible a little bit, then watching college and pro football all weekend ain't a man with God's heart. There are millions of unsaved people in this world, billions I might and, we are Watching the movie Dumb and Dumber or watching sports, that is not a heart after God's heart. God's heart cries for the lost, thus we should have a burden that if we walk downtown somewhere, and they are partying, etc., etc. our hearts should be so burdened we are nigh tears in our hearts because God's heart is aching for the lost souls.
Simply saying I BELIEVE doesn't;t get you or anyone to Heaven, because God sees OUR HEARTS if we really, really believe, then our Hearts are never the same again, we have a burden for the lost, people like Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi think God, excerpts their lies whilst the work evil? LOL, It ain't happening, the same can be said for many Republicans, the point is, God, sees THE HEART, He judges the heart that the deceiving mouth which says this, this and this. You think a priest that marries two homosexuals is going to Heaven unless he REPENTS and CONFESSES his sins? The mouth can say anything, God knows yours and my every thought.
Judas was a Disciple of Jesus and he turned unto Satan. It's true, we are saved by faith alone in the Messiah, but people forget this one condition, you have to REPENT FIRST, and turn from your sins. Then you/we all shall be SAVED. Thus if you turn back to evil and love evil more than God, you are not maki Heave. What do you thin the 10 Virgins stand for? ALL Christendom !! So how many are going to make even out of the supposed 2 billion on this earth according to Jesus' own parable? Only 1 Billion. Only 5 of the virgins make the Wedding in Heaven, the rest are our trying to buy oil for the lamp.
God sees the Heart, He sees hucksters. If we think we can just say, I BELIVE, but then love this world or God, Jesus told us what will happen. He said if you love this world the love of God is NOT IN YOU. Just saying I BELIVE, is not FAITH in Jesus, picking up our cross and FOLLOWING Jesus is what FAITH is. If we BELIVE then every day we seek to be more and more like Jesus, tats what Christian means Christ-like. If someone spends 30 hours a week watching sports, I don't think they will make Heaven via the Rapture honestly, IMHO, that is that man LOVING this world over God.
Simply, BELIEVING Jesus is the Messiah will not get you to heaven. We have to be IMMERSED in Christ AND the Holy Spirit. Simply believing in Jesus is what cleanses us, but if we love this world more than Jesus then we have gone back to the pig pen.
yes can you answer my questions ? and stop carrying on making asumtptions of me because sofar thats all youve done. you havent answered any of my questions. and ignored some verry important questions
Luke 11:24-26 24"When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.
The unclean spirit can only be expelled from a person by the spirit of God entering the person. there for our father in heaven regonises its not a person fault if an unclean spirit is entering a person. when the spirit of God enters a person whether unclean or not they are sealed untill the day of redemption. God is not a indian giver
What other people are assuming of me is i am assuming that the spirit of God can enter you and leave you. i am not assuming that.
what you and others are assuming of me that if an evil spirit re enters your body after you have bean sealed you have lost the holy spirit. i am not in assuming that.
What you and others are assuming of me is an evil spirit can not re enter a holy spirit filled person. which i agree is only true for those christians who can keep there body a temple. but i am not assuming you have lost the spirit or been unsealed.
For those who do not keep there body a temple the bible clearly says an evil spirit can come back and devour you and people are consuming is they cant.
a warning to all christians the enemy can devour you
1 Peter 5:6-11 6Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. 8Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. 10And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. 11To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
The teachings of jesus are spiritual.. Jesus is saying here if you do not keep your body a temple the enemy can devour you. which also means consume you.
There for works of faith and beleive are needed to stop this from happening
Once a gain if this happens i am not assuming a christian is not still saved
There are those who have unsound minds by natural means to
Luke 11:24-26 24"When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.
The unclean spirit can only be expelled from a person by the spirit of God entering the person. there for our father in heaven regonises its not a person fault if an unclean spirit is entering a person. when the spirit of God enters a person whether unclean or not they are sealed untill the day of redemption. God is not a indian giver
What other people are assuming of me is i am assuming that the spirit of God can enter you and leave you. i am not assuming that.
what you and others are assuming of me that if an evil spirit re enters your body after you have bean sealed you have lost the holy spirit. i am not in assuming that.
What you and others are assuming of me is an evil spirit can not re enter a holy spirit filled person. which i agree is only true for those christians who can keep there body a temple. but i am not assuming you have lost the spirit or been unsealed.
For those who do not keep there body a temple the bible clearly says an evil spirit can come back and devour you and people are consuming is they cant.
a warning to all christians the enemy can devour you
1 Peter 5:6-11 6Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. 8Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. 10And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. 11To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
The teachings of jesus are spiritual.. Jesus is saying here if you do not keep your body a temple the enemy can devour you. which also means consume you.
There for works of faith and beleive are needed to stop this from happening
Once a gain if this happens i am not assuming a christian is not still saved
There are those who have unsound minds by natural means to
E
Can you state in my post where I claimed simply "believing" will save anyone?
Thank you
Yep he will. Those who try to earn salvation by works will attempt to show God all their works as a means of salvation. And jesus will say HE NEVER KNEW THEM.
This means they were NEVER SAVED! for if they were saved. Jesus lied. because he did know them at one time
ok. Your fighting against licentiousness. I agree. these people have never been saved. Because mere believe never saved anyone
However, You claimed people could lose salvation. that it is not assured. Can we please discuss this?
Thank you
Yep he will. Those who try to earn salvation by works will attempt to show God all their works as a means of salvation. And jesus will say HE NEVER KNEW THEM.
This means they were NEVER SAVED! for if they were saved. Jesus lied. because he did know them at one time
ok. Your fighting against licentiousness. I agree. these people have never been saved. Because mere believe never saved anyone
However, You claimed people could lose salvation. that it is not assured. Can we please discuss this?
E
I did answer your question. I have never assumed anything, Thats why I asked.
You assume Luke 11 supports that a demon can enter a holy spirit filled person. But it does not. I wanted you to see for yourself thats why I asked. But again. You diverted the issue
Jesus expelled many spirits as did the disciples. It had nothing to do with the spirit entering a person. You quoted a passage in luke before the spirit was given. Thats why I asked you to show where that person was sealed.
I agree. and thats WHY a demon can not re-enter a person who is sealed by the spirit.
He can only re-enter a person who is not saved. or not sealed. Thats what a few people here have tried to show you
Please show me this in scripture. that this demon entered the person who was sealed by the spirit.
This is not possession. this is oppression.
Your whole point is a demon or satan can POSSESS.. if this is not your point. then please share so we can see. But this is not what you wrote in your op.
You assume Luke 11 supports that a demon can enter a holy spirit filled person. But it does not. I wanted you to see for yourself thats why I asked. But again. You diverted the issue
Jesus expelled many spirits as did the disciples. It had nothing to do with the spirit entering a person. You quoted a passage in luke before the spirit was given. Thats why I asked you to show where that person was sealed.
I agree. and thats WHY a demon can not re-enter a person who is sealed by the spirit.
He can only re-enter a person who is not saved. or not sealed. Thats what a few people here have tried to show you
Please show me this in scripture. that this demon entered the person who was sealed by the spirit.
This is not possession. this is oppression.
Your whole point is a demon or satan can POSSESS.. if this is not your point. then please share so we can see. But this is not what you wrote in your op.
-
1
- Show all
He s talking about unbelievers...
Before I was saved , I tried to clean my self up , swept house if you like , would stay sober for a moth , drug free , I said " I will never do these things again " only I did , and each time I was worst then the the last time I did these things , I splurged , I binged like crazy , especially the drugs , my behavior was worst , and this is what I believe Jesus is saying...
I now have the Holy Spirit , who is cleaning me daily...
I am now a non drinker , ex drug user , my behaviour majority of the time is walking in the Spirit , I am changed and changing still...
Satan still temps me , but I have the power of the Holy Spirit in me , and if I stumble , it is not because I am possessed , but because I gave into the temptation...
...xox...
Before I was saved , I tried to clean my self up , swept house if you like , would stay sober for a moth , drug free , I said " I will never do these things again " only I did , and each time I was worst then the the last time I did these things , I splurged , I binged like crazy , especially the drugs , my behavior was worst , and this is what I believe Jesus is saying...
I now have the Holy Spirit , who is cleaning me daily...
I am now a non drinker , ex drug user , my behaviour majority of the time is walking in the Spirit , I am changed and changing still...
Satan still temps me , but I have the power of the Holy Spirit in me , and if I stumble , it is not because I am possessed , but because I gave into the temptation...
...xox...
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Yep thats where your diserment is wrong, When Jesus expelled demons from people in the bible it was befor the holy spirit had come to dwell in people jesus had not yet gone to the cross.
But that does not apply to today.
When a person is freed from a demon today it is because the spirit of God goes into a person.
But that does not apply to today.
When a person is freed from a demon today it is because the spirit of God goes into a person.
E
I am discussing.
Discussing is 2 people sharing ideas. and if one sees a problem with one of their ideas discussion is asking or trying to see why there is a disagreement. Or sharing their view.
He made a comment about salvation and the ability to be lost. So I asked him questions about what he said.
He assumed. He assumed I believe a person can be saved by mere belief because I disagreed with him about losing salvation. (that is a comman response by people in christian chat. If you do not believe this ask others. I am sure @Rosemaryx can vouch for this. because it has happened to her also)
So am I not aloud to ask him where I stated what he said? I mean you keep asking me to explain why I think you say certain things. so it is ok for you but not others?
I do not assume who is saved and who is not. I am Not God.. Only God knows who has TRUE LIVING FAITH. You cant, I cant and the person who responded to me can not. So why do you sit here and accuse me of things which are not true? Instead of ASKING me if this is what I believe?
Discussing is 2 people sharing ideas. and if one sees a problem with one of their ideas discussion is asking or trying to see why there is a disagreement. Or sharing their view.
He made a comment about salvation and the ability to be lost. So I asked him questions about what he said.
He assumed. He assumed I believe a person can be saved by mere belief because I disagreed with him about losing salvation. (that is a comman response by people in christian chat. If you do not believe this ask others. I am sure @Rosemaryx can vouch for this. because it has happened to her also)
So am I not aloud to ask him where I stated what he said? I mean you keep asking me to explain why I think you say certain things. so it is ok for you but not others?
I do not assume who is saved and who is not. I am Not God.. Only God knows who has TRUE LIVING FAITH. You cant, I cant and the person who responded to me can not. So why do you sit here and accuse me of things which are not true? Instead of ASKING me if this is what I believe?
-
1
- Show all
E
Yep and the passage you used to prove you point was BEFORE jesus went to the cross.
So lets be honest and humble. and can you now see why I asked you the question about when that person was sealed by the spirit?
I disagree. I have seen a demon expelled by prayer. and the person get saved much later
the spirit does not come in until after justification.
So lets be honest and humble. and can you now see why I asked you the question about when that person was sealed by the spirit?
I disagree. I have seen a demon expelled by prayer. and the person get saved much later
the spirit does not come in until after justification.
Then we will always be in disagrement of this i will never change my belief. i believe strongly that whether its prayer or whether it laying on of hands from a believer that expells the evil spirit from a person its still the spirit of of God that enters the person to expell the demon.
I do agree that was different befor the cross but not for today.
For me personaly you may as well chuck away the new testerment bible and just live in the old testerment if you feal its the same for today as it was for the old. thats my view personaly and it may not be yours. so im not discrediting you. but for me the new testerment and every word in it also applies to after the cross also. because as you know once you come to the cross your self you can still go back to your old ways.
An evil spirit will never do what its told from God, so we do need to practice the faith as much as believing in the faith each and evry day.
And for me its for one major reason why we must practice our faith every day is so that we dont get consumed by evil.
If we difile are own body we break a commandment of jesus and we then can be consumed by evil its as simple as that. there is no beating about the bush here, you either choose to believe this or you dont.
Clear instruction to all christians from Jesus is if you do not keep your body a temple the enemy will consume you on any given day. why well because the enemy is always looking to destroy a child of God more so than a person he has allready stolen.
Why well because the darkness has never been able to understand the light
I do agree that was different befor the cross but not for today.
For me personaly you may as well chuck away the new testerment bible and just live in the old testerment if you feal its the same for today as it was for the old. thats my view personaly and it may not be yours. so im not discrediting you. but for me the new testerment and every word in it also applies to after the cross also. because as you know once you come to the cross your self you can still go back to your old ways.
An evil spirit will never do what its told from God, so we do need to practice the faith as much as believing in the faith each and evry day.
And for me its for one major reason why we must practice our faith every day is so that we dont get consumed by evil.
If we difile are own body we break a commandment of jesus and we then can be consumed by evil its as simple as that. there is no beating about the bush here, you either choose to believe this or you dont.
Clear instruction to all christians from Jesus is if you do not keep your body a temple the enemy will consume you on any given day. why well because the enemy is always looking to destroy a child of God more so than a person he has allready stolen.
Why well because the darkness has never been able to understand the light
very pleased for you, really i am. every word is true i couldnt agree more.
The holy spirit has saved you and is keeping you.
I also see your belief is strong and your will power is strong.
You can beat temptation and you can stumble from temptation.
there are many different temptations but theres one that leads to destruction of your temple the body that leads to repossession
which is the enemy tempting you to defile your own body with drugs or ciggerettes and other indulgences. because they lead to an unsound mind.
Would you agree to put on the armour of God everyday and be strong in faith you need a sober mind,
1 Peter 5:6-11 6Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. 8Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. 10And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. 11To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
Do you see that this scripture is for believers and do you see an evil spirit can consume you if you do not keep your body a temple.
The holy spirit has saved you and is keeping you.
I also see your belief is strong and your will power is strong.
You can beat temptation and you can stumble from temptation.
there are many different temptations but theres one that leads to destruction of your temple the body that leads to repossession
which is the enemy tempting you to defile your own body with drugs or ciggerettes and other indulgences. because they lead to an unsound mind.
Would you agree to put on the armour of God everyday and be strong in faith you need a sober mind,
1 Peter 5:6-11 6Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. 8Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings. 10And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. 11To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.
Do you see that this scripture is for believers and do you see an evil spirit can consume you if you do not keep your body a temple.
-
1
- Show all