50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

[Runningman]

Do you Believe HE IS GOD himself, the Second Personage in the Holy Trinity, not a lesser god, or offspring of GOD?

OH YES, I LOVE HIM, more than anybody! MORE THAN MY LATE WIFE, who JESUS called HOME to be with HIM, in Nov. 2015.

I believe Jesus is literally God.

This is possibly one of my favorite verses about Jesus. Literal chills just imagining the glory and power of my Savior.

Hebrews 1:1-3
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[VCO]

You're forced to take the position that born again church members are not the elect of God. A truly sad conclusion of the pre-trib rapture theologian.

I proved to Benjamin, that the ELECT of GOD was referring to ISRAEL.

See my Post #5,196 .

 

[Runningman]

I proved to Benjamin, that the ELECT of GOD was referring to ISRAEL.

See my Post #5,196 .

Why not include the verses that teach the church is also God's elect?

 

[ewq1938]

I follow a site, in another social media outlet, in which the rapture and end times prophecy is discussed. Several posts on there posit that counting down from the restoration of Israel in 1948, we are at 73 years after, and the 80th anniversary is 2028. They are using the number "80" as the lifespan of a generation and saying that we are the generation that will see the return of Christ, since this generation saw the first of the signs (Israel). Any thoughts on this?

They used to use a 40 year generation which is a true generation of time and thought 1988 was important. They were wrong a remain wrong each time they make the generation longer. The end times events and the Great Tribulation have nothing to do with 1948 (nor 1967).

 

[ewq1938]

No non-Christians can be elect. The elect are only those who accept Christ.

 

[VCO]

Why not include the verses that teach the church is also God's elect?

By the time HE tell the Angels to go Gather thee elect, we will have been in heaven have BEEN CAUGHT UP for appoximately 7 years, at the WEDDING OF THE LAMB. You will know exactly why you have missed the Rapture the only trip to heaven For the Wedding of the LAMB.

SINCE YOU HAVE VOLUNTEERED TO GO THRU THE Wrath of GOD and Christs, I believe HE will let you. Do not get angry with GOD, you chose to go that route. Understand, the CHURCH is GONE so you will have to Worship like a JEW. You will probably be in you Mortal Body, while we will be in out GLORIFIED BODY. Do enjoy the FEAST OF TABERNACLES.

Zechariah 14:16-17 (KJV)
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

AND It is the Tent you must live for a who week.

 

[BenjaminN]

I follow a site, in another social media outlet, in which the rapture and end times prophecy is discussed. Several posts on there posit that counting down from the restoration of Israel in 1948, we are at 73 years after, and the 80th anniversary is 2028. They are using the number "80" as the lifespan of a generation and saying that we are the generation that will see the return of Christ, since this generation saw the first of the signs (Israel). Any thoughts on this?

https://2028end.com - Not pre-trib though.

 

[BenjaminN]

I proved to Benjamin, that the ELECT of GOD was referring to ISRAEL.

See my Post #5,196 .

Colossians 3 (NKJV)

11where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.
12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

Hebrews 8 (NKJV)

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

 

[BenjaminN]

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QUOTE:
Christian Zionism - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism
Christian Zionism is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land and the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 were in accordance with Bible prophecy.
:END QUOTE.

I do not give a Hoot about John Nelson Darby. I have never read any of his books, and have NEVER heard a sermon, where his theology was even mentioned.

HOWEVER, I CARE A LOT ABOUT CHRISTIAN ZIONISM, and am a Proud supporter of ISRAEL. I am not a Jew,
BUT I AM A SUPPORTER OF ISRAEL, and wish the CHURCH would start celebrating THE SEVEN FEASTS OF ISRAEL. WHY?
BECAUSE JESUS IS THE FULFILLMENT OF ALL SEVEN OF THEM.

I find your Anti Christian Zionist statement AS OFFENSIVE AS IT GETS.

Just so you know, You will get to go through the Great Tribulation.

Most of the rest of us already have the INVITE to the Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven in out Hearts,
at the beginning of Jacob's Prophesied Trouble.

How does the Jew, Messiah Christ Yeshua's second coming on the clouds, meeting the resurrected dead and the transfigured alive Christians in the clouds relate to christianzionism of today?

As for the seven Israelite feasts, they will be celebrated in the Millennial Kingdom AFTER the true Messiah returned. Do not force the perfect timeframe of God, God is in control not christianzionism.

 

[BenjaminN]

No non-Christians can be elect. The elect are only those who accept Christ.

Maybe you meant "non-Christians can't be elect"?

 

[BenjaminN]

...You will know exactly why you have missed the Rapture...

How can you tell a Christian he will miss the rapture? Regardless of it's timing (post or pre tribulational)?

 

[Runningman]

How can you tell a Christian he will miss the rapture? Regardless of it's timing (post or pre tribulational)?

Great question. The short answer is that he has no authority to make such a charge against me or anyone else. However, that doesn't keep him from repeatedly doing it. I've noticed in pre-trib circles there's a common belief that if you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture then you miss it. (I've been told this several times by several different pre-tribbers)

The truth is, though, that there's no Biblical support for that belief.

I believe that all of us, maybe the pre-tribbers especially, need to be vigilant about what doctrines we take in and digest.

 

[BenjaminN]

Great question. The short answer is that he has no authority to make such a charge against me or anyone else. However, that doesn't keep him from repeatedly doing it. I've noticed in pre-trib circles there's a common belief that if you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture then you miss it. (I've been told this several times by several different pre-tribbers)

The truth is, though, that there's no Biblical support for that belief.

I believe that all of us, maybe the pre-tribbers especially, need to be vigilant about what doctrines we take in and digest.

Fearmongering is not what the Gospel is about. Lies and deception will be used however in the great apostacy. The churchfathers and the church up to 1830 before John Nelson Darby's https://bit.ly/Christianzionism believed in the rapture, but not in a so-called pre-tribulational rapture...

 

[cv5]

BenjaminN now on permanent ignore. Bye-bye.

 

[Absolutely]

The four winds is the atmosphere of earth in the clouds where we will meet Christ at the rapture... the atmosphere of earth is the first heaven, the stars the second heaven and God's dwelling place is the third heaven

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds...

Third heaven:

2 Corinthians 12 (NKJV)

2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Ok that is pretrib doctrine.
We see the saints gathered and installed on horses in heaven.

The only thing you have close to a postrib gathering from earth is rev 14.
And that is niether the rapture or the second coming.

But your assertion / theory is COMPLETELY DEBUNKED by rev 14 because that gathering not only differs completely from any hope of making white horses fit, but it is during the trib.

( pssssst the dead rise first)

Kinda a double play ,kicking out postrib rapture

 

[Absolutely]

Fearmongering is not what the Gospel is about. Lies and deception will be used however in the great apostacy. The churchfathers and the church up to 1830 before John Nelson Darby's https://bit.ly/Christianzionism believed in the rapture, but not in a so-called pre-tribulational rapture...

the postrib rapture (fearmongering) was invented by your infallable church fathers while trying to figure out why israel is scattered and their nation destroyed.

Your entire deal os based on deception

Built on man, and deception.

Most were amil

Is that also what we all need to believe?

 

[Absolutely]

They all are whom preach pretrib. It clearly has zero scriptural support and contradicts clear scripture.

We have verses
You do not.

My challenge stands.
Post a verse pointing to a postrib rapture.

Nobody ever has.

 

[VCO]

https://2028end.com - Not pre-trib though.

Elders in Judaism is not a religious position, but a Political Position. ELDERS in the Church is a Religious Position.

Revelation 4:4 (KJV)
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.


That means the RAPTURED Church had already happened by Verse 4.


1 Thessalonians 5:8-11 (NASB)
8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
{That Means = KEEP READY}
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.
11 Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

Revelation 6:9-11 (HCSB)
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the people slaughtered because of God’s word and the testimony they had.
10 They cried out with a loud voice: “Lord, the One who is holy and true, how long until You judge and avenge our blood from those who live on the earth?”
11 So a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been.


Last group PEOPLE invited to the WEDDING OF THE LAMB, have arrived. AND THEY WERE CAUGHT UP TOO, NOT GATHERED by Angels.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 (HCSB)
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
23 But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, at His coming, those who belong to Christ.
24 Then comes the end, {AFTER THE RAPTURE. Also known as the 70th Week of Daniel} when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power.

 

[Absolutely]

View attachment 229365

View attachment 229366

QUOTE:
Christian Zionism - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism
Christian Zionism is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land and the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 were in accordance with Bible prophecy.
:END QUOTE.

I do not give a Hoot about John Nelson Darby. I have never read any of his books, and have NEVER heard a sermon, where his theology was even mentioned.

HOWEVER, I CARE A LOT ABOUT CHRISTIAN ZIONISM, and am a Proud supporter of ISRAEL. I am not a Jew,
BUT I AM A SUPPORTER OF ISRAEL, and wish the CHURCH would start celebrating THE SEVEN FEASTS OF ISRAEL. WHY?
BECAUSE JESUS IS THE FULFILLMENT OF ALL SEVEN OF THEM.

I find your Anti Christian Zionist statement AS OFFENSIVE AS IT GETS.

Just so you know, You will get to go through the Great Tribulation.

Most of the rest of us already have the INVITE to the Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven in out Hearts,
at the beginning of Jacob's Prophesied Trouble.

When they invoke darby, they are saying they have no verses.

Literally " i see my position is destroyed but let me malign you as bible roadrage"

We have left them standing in ashes and in denial.

Comical actually.

 

[Runningman]

Fearmongering is not what the Gospel is about. Lies and deception will be used however in the great apostacy. The churchfathers and the church up to 1830 before John Nelson Darby's https://bit.ly/Christianzionism believed in the rapture, but not in a so-called pre-tribulational rapture...

Amen. Yeah I don't buy into fear mongering. All fear dissipates when we are firmly grounded in scripture. God gave us the Bible to be sure beyond all doubt what the truth is.

P.s. - welcome to the club of being on cv5's permanent ignore list. Something about proving the elect are the church who will be gathered immediately after the tribulation, according to Matthew 24, must not have sat well with him. I wonder why?