2 Thessalonians 2

[Absolutely]

Your issue “Re read your foundation.
Angels gather....not Jesus.”

“And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your issue “
They gather from heaven....not earth.


“And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬



Your issue “You have not presented ANYTHING resembling a postrib rapture”

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you should consider what the scripture actually says all of us can be wrong sometimes we can even be convinced but please consider what Jesus had to say about his return

You deal is impossible.

You omit, reframe, repeat.

The coming on white horses is FROM HEAVEN. the saints are on the horses ALREADY.
The saints, the bride, has become the WIFE,IN HEAVEN.

Your scenario fails because the dead rise FIRST.
Rev 14 has living gathered BY JESUS DURING THE TRIB.

So MAKING A POSTRIB RAPTURE FIT IS BLATANT ERROR.

THERE is NO RAPTURE VERSE that harmonizes with the 2nd coming on horses.
None.

They all are peacetime and in no war dimension at all.

But rev 14 is a nuclear bomb on a postrib rapture theory.
Totally destroys it.

 

[Absolutely]

Your issue “Re read your foundation.
Angels gather....not Jesus.”

“And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your issue “
They gather from heaven....not earth.


“And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬



Your issue “You have not presented ANYTHING resembling a postrib rapture”

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you should consider what the scripture actually says all of us can be wrong sometimes we can even be convinced but please consider what Jesus had to say about his return

thank you for those postrib verses.

We all see it is postrib and Jesus is coming with his saints on white horses.

We also see a gathering in heaven.

We also see the pretrib rapture has already happened and the bride has become the wife in heaven.
So no rapture postrib.

Thank you for bringing that forward

 

[OldSage]

What's your take on this verse?

Hebrews 9:28
28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

That Jesus appeared to the Church after his resurrection, which is the first appearance,
and the second appearance he makes to the Church will be when the church is gathered
to him in the clouds.

 

[Absolutely]

Your issue “Re read your foundation.
Angels gather....not Jesus.”

“And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your issue “
They gather from heaven....not earth.


“And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬



Your issue “You have not presented ANYTHING resembling a postrib rapture”

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you should consider what the scripture actually says all of us can be wrong sometimes we can even be convinced but please consider what Jesus had to say about his return

you mean where you place lot and noah gathered post judgement?

No prejudgement gathering ?

No lot or noah prejudgement dynamic as Jesus taught on the table?

 

[Absolutely]

That Jesus appeared to the Church after his resurrection, which is the first appearance,
and the second appearance he makes to the Church will be when the church is gathered
to him in the clouds.

".... To them that are looking for him"

Salvation , escape, to those people?

 

[OldSage]

".... To them that are looking for him"

Salvation , escape, to those people?

We will inherit eternal bodies, which is how I understand salvation.
Salvation from death

 

[Absolutely]

Can you prove that Jesus didn't command them to gather? It would still be Jesus as the "commander".


Prove it.


We have. Your eyes are not open. 2 Thess 2:1 says in plain straghtforward language that the rapture (gathering) occurs at the Second Advent. You just aren't willing to admit it.

The coming on horses

Is that Jesus sitting on a cloud in rev 14?

 

[Absolutely]

We will inherit eternal bodies, which is how I understand salvation.
Salvation from death

Yes
Many doors leading to the same room

 

[Absolutely]

This is not correct though.
Nowhere does the Bible talk of a second coming.

It talks of Jesus RETURNING TO EARTH.

that would, by nature, be the second coming

 

[Absolutely]

Your issue “Re read your foundation.
Angels gather....not Jesus.”

“And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your issue “
They gather from heaven....not earth.


“And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬



Your issue “You have not presented ANYTHING resembling a postrib rapture”

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you should consider what the scripture actually says all of us can be wrong sometimes we can even be convinced but please consider what Jesus had to say about his return

Your crafty changing of the word is appalling to any bible student.
I was making breakfast when the Holy Spirit pointed me to your crafty rewording of scripture.
Pointed me right to it.
He said " there is no "then"".

Sure enough. YOU ADDED IT TO SCRIPTURE.
And """"then """",( THE ADDED FAKE word) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:26-27‬ ‭KJV

It reads" he shall"
Leaving it open to misinterpretation.

It may or may not be after his decent begins.

Huge difference

 

[OldSage]

It talks of Jesus RETURNING TO EARTH.

that would, by nature, be the second coming

Well, in Hebrews it just says that Jesus will appear again to his church,
it does not specify where. I reckon in the clouds tbh.

But now we have to understand if there is a difference between presence and appearance.

 

[Jackson123]

That is the 'historicist' position.

History RCC in political power from 538 to 1798, but do you believe that history mean rcc was first beast?

 

[OldSage]

History RCC in political power from 538 to 1798, but do you believe that history mean rcc was first beast?

I tend to that view.....it's an open study for me though

 

[FreeGrace2]

Again, biblically-speaking, there is only one 'return' of Christ - only one Second Coming of Christ. There is no Third Coming. And, there is no "He didn't actually 'come' because His feet did not touch the ground." either.

In fact, the Bible says He comes "in the clouds in the air". What evidence shows that there is "air" in heaven? Or even clouds?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Your crafty changing of the word is appalling to any bible student.
I was making breakfast when the Holy Spirit pointed me to your crafty rewording of scripture.
Pointed me right to it.
He said " there is no "then"".

Sure enough. YOU ADDED IT TO SCRIPTURE.
And """"then """",( THE ADDED FAKE word) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:26-27‬ ‭KJV

It reads" he shall"
Leaving it open to misinterpretation.

It may or may not be after his decent begins.

Huge difference

Mayes your inability to acknowledge the word of Jesus Christ the lord is astounding but I’m not interested in endless arguing for no purpose I’m more here to discuss what the Bible says so , God bless

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is not correct though.
Nowhere does the Bible talk of a second coming.

Actually, the Bible doesn't need to count the times. God knows people can count for themselves.

The Bible prophesied Jesus Christ's FIRST advent as a baby, who came to earth as the suffering Servant and Savior, and prophesied that Jesus Christ would come AGAIN as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Those who can count realize that this equals TWO advents or comings of our Lord. Not difficult at all.

Your argument is akin to the claim that the word "Trinity" doesn't occur in the Bible.

There IS the Trinity, and there ARE 2 comings of Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In fact, the Bible says He comes "in the clouds in the air". What evidence shows that there is "air" in heaven? Or even clouds?

“And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭

Christs birth and first coming would fulfill the Old Testament promises came to this

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that came into being here when he came to earth the first time as a fulfillment of Gods promise to israel

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And his second coming at the end of the world will Conclude the New Testament promises that end just as the first did with a promise for Christs return to earth

“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the measure of our time is between Jesus ascension into heaven after his resurrection until he returns in the end of the world and brings in the new

 

[FreeGrace2]

What's your take on this verse?

Hebrews 9:28
28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Now, that's what I'm talking about!!

 

[OldSage]

Actually, the Bible doesn't need to count the times. God knows people can count for themselves.

The Bible prophesied Jesus Christ's FIRST advent as a baby, who came to earth as the suffering Servant and Savior, and prophesied that Jesus Christ would come AGAIN as King of kings and Lord of lords.

Those who can count realize that this equals TWO advents or comings of our Lord. Not difficult at all.

Your argument is akin to the claim that the word "Trinity" doesn't occur in the Bible.

There IS the Trinity, and there ARE 2 comings of Christ.

All waffle, no scripture

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you prove that Jesus didn't command them to gather? It would still be Jesus as the "commander".

Prove it.

The coming on horses

Is that Jesus sitting on a cloud in rev 14?

Doesn't prove that Jesus didn't command angels to gather. He is STILL the One who ordered the gathering.