Do Animals Enter Condemnation or Paradise?

[John146]

I'm not so sure. It is forbidden to eat the blood of the animal because "The life is in the blood". God is emphatic. He instructed Noah, Genesis 9 and it is stated twice in Leviticus 17. The blood of an animal could be used as an atonement but for sure not for food. That says to me that animals are also precious to God. The animal kingdom is also included in the covenant that God made with Noah.

Genesis 9
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Romans 14
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

 

[John146]

That you only go by what is written. Shown to be false on multiple fronts already.

You can believe animals have no afterlife all you want, but it is certainly not written.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

The verse teaches that when a man dies his spirit, which is the life of his body goes back to God.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

For the animal, it's spirit goes back to the ground with it's body, so animals here on the earth do not go to either Heaven or Hell.

 

[Magenta]

Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

The verse teaches that when a man dies his spirit, which is the life of his body goes back to God.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

For the animal, it's spirit goes back to the ground with it's body, so animals here on the earth do not go to either Heaven or Hell.

No, it does NOT teach that animals do not have an afterlife. You make assumptions, and speculate!

New International Version
Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?

New Living Translation
For who can prove that the human spirit goes up and the spirit of animals goes down into the earth?

English Standard Version
Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

Berean Study Bible
Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and the spirit of the animal descends into the earth?

And who does it say knows? Certainly not you!!! The question is asked without being answered.

 

[posthuman]

I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things
will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

brings up some profound questions:

will these be completely new, or the old, redeemed?
is there a difference?
is it like what He does with us?
are we *completely* new, or redeemed?
you are still *you* after being saved; you retain your personhood & identity, even tho 'all things are made new' and you are 'a new creation'
when we are resurrected, you are still 'you' - you retain personhood & identity; when we meet each other there, i will know you are 'Dear Purple Lady' -- not a new thing copied from Dear Purple Lady. you aren't a replica in which a copy of your memories have been encoded; you are you.

is it the same with the heavens and the earth; are they transformed, or are they annihilated and a wholly separate thing created?
and the other living souls, apart from humanity?
annihilated altogether, erased from existence?
does God create anything only in order to destroy it?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Animals operate on the principle of instinct, but they are still created by God.

True. But animals will not be redeemed or resurrected or enter Heaven. God will RE-POPULATE the New Earth with animals in such a way that the lion and the lamb can lie side-by-side and the wolves won't go after the sheep.

ISAIAH 11: ALL ANIMALS TO BE HERBIVOROUS AND LIVE IN PEACE AND HARMONY
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse [CHRIST HIMSELF], which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and His rest shall be glorious.

Christ is both "the root of Jesse" and "the son of David". Here He is shown as King over all the earth, and David will be the prince under Him. This is also the time when the "everlasting righteousness" presented in the prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel will be fulfilled. God had created all animals and man as herbivorous creatures. That changed after the Fall, but it will be restored in the New Earth.

 

[posthuman]

Ecclesiastes 3:21 "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

The verse teaches that when a man dies his spirit, which is the life of his body goes back to God.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it."

For the animal, it's spirit goes back to the ground with it's body, so animals here on the earth do not go to either Heaven or Hell.

as i put before, i really think Ecclesiastes 3:21 is a question, not a statement -- and it's answered in Ecclesiastes 12:7

even the KJV, which translates 3:21 awkwardly, allows that understanding. Who knoweth? recall that the whole paragraph begins with the Teacher telling us God proves man in order to demonstrate to us that we are exactly like animals: so who knows where our own spirit goes? that is the question: no man knows; but God knows: and Solomon learned it, and put the answer in 12:7

KJV as we will all recall confusingly puts 'creature' for the Hebrew word "soul" in Genesis -- unless it refers to man. so it's clear ((to me at least)) that there was a humanistic bias among the translators leading them to not be accurate & faithful to the language, as the Vulgate itself had been here, and the LXX, and the Hebrew, and the received text. that's reflected in how they handled Ecclesiastes 3:21, but pick up any interlinear and you'll see that it really is according to the text a rhetorical question, not a statement that something different happens to the body & spirit of animals than what happens to mankind, who is also an animal. there's a clear interpretive bias contrary to the literal words whether in Hebrew or their ancient Greek & Latin translations.

also you are ignoring the context of these things, dear friend.
the same scripture says (1) we are also animals (2) we have the same breath (3) we go to the same place

the spirit of the creature returns to the One who gave that spirit. now, did God give living souls their spirits, or did the dust?

 

[posthuman]

True. But animals will not be redeemed or resurrected or enter Heaven. God will RE-POPULATE the New Earth with animals in such a way that the lion and the lamb can lie side-by-side and the wolves won't go after the sheep.

given that animals are (1) living souls just like us and (2) have the breath of life just like us and (3) eagerly await the appearing of the children of God and (4) were subject to futility in hope and (5) we are also animals --- all of which statements are firmly rooted in previously discussed scripture --- what Biblical basis do you have to say these sinless souls are utterly destroyed by God an replaced by entirely new ones?
that's some JW kind of argument, if you were talking about human souls. what is the justification for saying this about other souls - sinless ones, at that - for they are also according to scripture, "nephesh chayyah"

 

[posthuman]

God had created all animals and man as herbivorous creatures. That changed after the Fall, but it will be restored in the New Earth.

including mankind, until after the flood.

are we likewise to be utterly annihilated and replaced with similar copies of ourselves, brand new souls?
or are we redeemed and transformed in the new creation?

 

[posthuman]

Eating man is forbidden by God. Eating animals is not. Why? Because animals cease to exist when dead.

​

I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men,
that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.​

(Ecclesiastes 3:18)​

​

whatever we say about beasts, we are Biblically saying also about people, are we not? scripture quite clearly says we are ourselves also beasts.

 

[posthuman]

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

does this verse mean a cannibal can eat human flesh without sin, if he thanks God for it and his conscience is not offended?
if Paul says nothing is unclean of itself - then he's already set aside the law of the covenant with Israel that declared certain things unclean, from which same law we get human beings being 'not kosher' -- but here Paul is saying the whole idea of 'kosher' was a shadow that has been taken away. back to Noah, where all flesh is given to him for food. and eventually, back to Eden -- where all flesh eats only every green thing.



i mean Romans 14 literally has no 'except humans' clause. it's something a person would, because of their own conscience, have to add to scripture.

 

[de-emerald]

including mankind, until after the flood.

are we likewise to be utterly annihilated and replaced with similar copies of ourselves, brand new souls?
or are we redeemed and transformed in the new creation?

Well i would say if it aint broke dont fix it. I know i have a gift of spiritual diserment. and i can tell you the soul of a human being (spirit) is just beautiful and free. One day youll know for sure. and i would say there isnt any need to replace the one you have

 

[de-emerald]

what is the soul of a man lol

 

[John146]

does this verse mean a cannibal can eat human flesh without sin, if he thanks God for it and his conscience is not offended?
if Paul says nothing is unclean of itself - then he's already set aside the law of the covenant with Israel that declared certain things unclean, from which same law we get human beings being 'not kosher' -- but here Paul is saying the whole idea of 'kosher' was a shadow that has been taken away. back to Noah, where all flesh is given to him for food. and eventually, back to Eden -- where all flesh eats only every green thing.



i mean Romans 14 literally has no 'except humans' clause. it's something a person would, because of their own conscience, have to add to scripture.

I give up. I really don’t care either way brother. Not really an important issue to discuss. If animals needed salvation through Christ, then it would be important. Have a blessed day.

Btw, 2 year pet scans were all clear. To God be the glory!

 

[posthuman]

i would say there isnt any need to replace the one you have

i agree -- it only needs cleaning, and we have the blood of Christ doing that

 

[posthuman]

I give up. I really don’t care either way brother. Not really an important issue to discuss. If animals needed salvation through Christ, then it would be important. Have a blessed day.

Btw, 2 year pet scans were all clear. To God be the glory!

it's a deeper and more difficult subject than the OP sounds like, isn't it?

no offense meant, and no offense taken -- and i am really glad to hear of your continued good health

 

[de-emerald]

de-emerald said:
i would say there isnt any need to replace the one you have

i agree -- it only needs cleaning, and we have the blood of Christ doing that

Well this is it isnt it, can the seed of the soul be corrupted ? and here lies the spiritual warfare battle. the enemy wants to corrupt the flesh, the question is, Is there more than one reason why the enemy wants to corrupt the flesh the mind, well the bible does says the eyes are the gateway to the soul, and if the eyes sins pluck it out. but its more of a case of having a plank in the eye. people dont know that the real plank in eye is the spiritual enemy, corrupting the mind but will that lead to the soul being corrupted ? the real plank in the eye is the enemy and not the hiporcrit of a brother who looks for a plank in sombodies else eye. the enemy gains access to the body through the eye.

We have to train the eyes of our heart to train the mind to train the soul. as well as the recieving the blood of christ.which is now his spirit. Theese are the missing links.
You train your inner silent thoughts in your heart and your mind. You train your heart and mind to speak to each other, each day and they soon wake up. oh and your soul will flourish.

 

[BrokenSparrow]

The Bible seems to make a distinction between soul and spirit, tho it calls animals souls throughout Genesis and says in other places like Ecclesiastes 3 they have spirits.
It is a difficult question to ask, what is the difference between a soul and a spirit? But the scripture in some places seems to compare the soul, the mind, and the heart together, and talks of the spirit differently.

The reason that I asked, is because scripture says that when we die the body goes to the dust and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

I have tried to put some study into the difference between the soul and the spirit, but I do find it somewhat confusing.

It has been explained to me that the flesh is just the physical body.

The soul is the identity or personality of a person. It is the natural man and chooses to please its own self. The soul left to its own device is selfish and self-willed.

As I understand it, the spirit is the part of man that connects with God. After Adam disobeyed God, the spirit in him died.

The spirit can only be made alive or regenerated by God. When we get saved, God regenerates the spirit within us. In my understanding, it is only through the regeneration of the spirit that we can have eternal life with God.

To try to sum it up, that is what I am curious about . Is there any place in scripture that alludes to animals having that type of spirit within them?

 

[BrokenSparrow]

This is a thought provoking and interesting thread. Thanks everyone for the information and replies that you have given me. I am taking them all into consideration and will try to reply to everyone.

 

[BrokenSparrow]

Romans 8:19-21 gives you the answer

Thanks for the information. I haven't put much thought into this subject before, but the verses you gave is a good starting point.

It does seem to make it clear that all creation came under the curse after Adam sinned and seems that is when death began.

 

[Magenta]

The reason that I asked, is because scripture says that when we die the body goes to the dust and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

I have tried to put some study into the difference between the soul and the spirit, but I do find it somewhat confusing.

It has been explained to me that the flesh is just the physical body.

The soul is the identity or personality of a person. It is the natural man and chooses to please its own self. The soul left to its own device is selfish and self-willed.

As I understand it, the spirit is the part of man that connects with God. After Adam disobeyed God, the spirit in him died.

The spirit can only be made alive or regenerated by God. When we get saved, God regenerates the spirit within us. In my understanding, it is only through the regeneration of the spirit that we can have eternal life with God.

To try to sum it up, that is what I am curious about . Is there any place in scripture that alludes to animals having that type of spirit within them?

Very well articulated The thing is, man was given and transgressed the law which was a tutor until Christ came, through Whom we put on immorality/the incorruptible via faith in His shed righteous blood, being reconciled to God and allowing us to attain to life ever after. No such law or requirement was given to animals that we know of. They were created good and there was no transgression of their own; they fell as a direct result of man's actions. They await the restitution of creation with the rest of creation. We may say with assurance that we need to do a specific thing in order to escape the second death, yet there is nothing in Scripture to suggest animals must do the same thing, or that they have the same requirement made of them, i.e., that they must be indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God in order to escape the second death when all things are made new.