Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future
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You specifically used Verses to make your case. But you used the KJV Bible that I proved was influenced by the Septuagint and Latin vulgate. Had you used the Hebrew, you would finally get a CLUE!
But keep using your misinformed Bible. I haven't had a good laugh like I have these past few days!
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Daniel 9:24-27, Geneva Bible of 1587 -
24 Seuentie weekes are determined vpon thy people and vpon thine holy citie, to finish the wickednes, and to seale vp the sinnes, and to reconcile the inquitie, and to bring in euerlasting righteousnesse, and to seale vp the vision and prophecie, and to anoynt the most Holy. 25 Knowe therefore and vnderstande, that from the going foorth of the commaundement to bring againe the people, and to builde Ierusalem, vnto Messiah the prince, shall be seuen weekes and threescore and two weekes, and the streete shalbe built againe, and the wall euen in a troublous time. 26 And after threescore and two weekes, shal Messiah be slaine, and shal haue nothing,, and the people of the prince that shal come, shal destroy the citie and the Sanctuarie, and the end thereof shalbe with a flood: and vnto the end of the battell it shalbe destroyed by desolations. 27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.
-- https://biblehub.com/geneva/daniel/9.htm
In what way is this ^ so different from any of the versions having been presented in this thread (and the other related thread on this Subject)??
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Well, as I have been explaining to you, believers ought to understand the nature of God in that, He does not punish the righteous with the wicked, which is what you and others are inferring when you claim a post tribulation gathering of the church.
And I've also presented to you and others, the great difference between the common trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would suffer because of their faith vs. the plagues of wrath which take place during the tribulation, which scripture states we are not to suffer.
It seems that no matter what scriptural truths are present to you, they are ignored.
In addition, John 14:1-3 does demonstrate that the Lord is going to return to gather the church and take them back to those places that He went to prepare for us in the Father's house which is in heaven. But you distort that! Paul says that "our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body." The transforming of our bodies immortal and glorified like the Lord's is what takes place when the Lord comes to gather us in conjunction with our citizenship being in heaven.
However, the greatest proof of this, is understanding that because the Lord already took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves resulting in God's wrath no longer resting upon the believer, should be enough to show that we must be removed from the earth prior to God's wrath. But you don't believe that either. Instead, you believe that God is going to punish the righteous with the wicked.
It is simply a matter of understanding God's nature and connecting all of the scriptures in order to get the big picture.
Those who claim that the church will be gathered after God's wrath are not truly believing in what the Lord did by experiencing if for us. You and others don't understand this underlying principle, which is one of the problem. All you do is immediately go out and grab or create the next false apologetic as a rebuttal. Pretty sad!
And I've also presented to you and others, the great difference between the common trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would suffer because of their faith vs. the plagues of wrath which take place during the tribulation, which scripture states we are not to suffer.
It seems that no matter what scriptural truths are present to you, they are ignored.
In addition, John 14:1-3 does demonstrate that the Lord is going to return to gather the church and take them back to those places that He went to prepare for us in the Father's house which is in heaven. But you distort that! Paul says that "our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body." The transforming of our bodies immortal and glorified like the Lord's is what takes place when the Lord comes to gather us in conjunction with our citizenship being in heaven.
However, the greatest proof of this, is understanding that because the Lord already took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves resulting in God's wrath no longer resting upon the believer, should be enough to show that we must be removed from the earth prior to God's wrath. But you don't believe that either. Instead, you believe that God is going to punish the righteous with the wicked.
It is simply a matter of understanding God's nature and connecting all of the scriptures in order to get the big picture.
Those who claim that the church will be gathered after God's wrath are not truly believing in what the Lord did by experiencing if for us. You and others don't understand this underlying principle, which is one of the problem. All you do is immediately go out and grab or create the next false apologetic as a rebuttal. Pretty sad!
Nonsense. Pretrib premillennial eschatology is built upon the entire Word of God. From Genesis to Revelation. A fact which has been aptly demonstrated on this thread and many similar threads.
It is clear to me that the alternative views......are missing critical features of the text. Either a little or a lot. But more concerning......many times are nothing more than fanciful fabrications.
It is clear to me that the alternative views......are missing critical features of the text. Either a little or a lot. But more concerning......many times are nothing more than fanciful fabrications.
When I see posters who manifest a continual pattern of ignoring Scriptural truth once presented.....it doesn't take me very long before I put THEM on ignore. Occasionally I will use them as a sounding board to raise a point. But other than that they really don't serve much of a purpose as far as I am concerned.
OldSage STILL has not retracted his ridiculous assertion that Daniel was a Levite and a priest. And then he goes ahead and builds an entire bogus doctrine based upon a false premise. Not even an apology to the board.......absolutely no remorse whatsoever.
OldSage STILL has not retracted his ridiculous assertion that Daniel was a Levite and a priest. And then he goes ahead and builds an entire bogus doctrine based upon a false premise. Not even an apology to the board.......absolutely no remorse whatsoever.
That is definitely a flight of fancy unsupported by any Scripture. Daniel was a royal prince of Judah, and from the tribe of Judah. What could be clearer than this?
And the king [Nebuchadnezzar] spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed [royal descent], and of the princes; Children [yeladim = young men] in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans... Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah (Dan 1:3,4,6)
Daniel and his three friends were to learn the language of the Chaldeans (Babylonians) which was Aramaic. Hence Daniel also wrote in Aramaic.
And the king [Nebuchadnezzar] spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king's seed [royal descent], and of the princes; Children [yeladim = young men] in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans... Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah (Dan 1:3,4,6)
Daniel and his three friends were to learn the language of the Chaldeans (Babylonians) which was Aramaic. Hence Daniel also wrote in Aramaic.
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I think in Ezra 8 verse 2 we see Daniel come back to his homeland at the end of his life. A son of Ithamar - ergo a Levite.
If I waited for you and many others to 'retract ridiculous assertions', or accept that their fanciful constructs are not established in the Word - well I'd be blowing as much hot toxic air as you CV5.
And try not to dissimulate, or lie as we say in English, does your already tainted image no good.
If I waited for you and many others to 'retract ridiculous assertions', or accept that their fanciful constructs are not established in the Word - well I'd be blowing as much hot toxic air as you CV5.
And try not to dissimulate, or lie as we say in English, does your already tainted image no good.
24 Seventy weeks [of years] have been decreed upon your people and upon the city of your Sanctuary to terminate the transgression and to end sin, and to expiate iniquity, and to bring eternal righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.
כדשָֽׁבֻעִ֨ים שִׁבְעִ֜ים נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ עַל־עַמְּךָ֣ | וְעַל־עִ֣יר קָדְשֶׁ֗ךָ לְכַלֵּ֨א הַפֶּ֜שַׁע וּלְהָתֵ֚ם (כתיב וּלְחָתֵ֚ם) חַטָּאוֹת֙ וּלְכַפֵּ֣ר עָוֹ֔ן וּלְהָבִ֖יא צֶ֣דֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים וְלַחְתֹּם֙ חָז֣וֹן וְנָבִ֔יא וְלִמְשֹׁ֖חַ קֹ֥דֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים:
25 And you shall know and understand that from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king [shall be] seven weeks, and [for] sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times.
כהוְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנ֚וֹת יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָֽׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָֽׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְח֣וֹב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצ֖וֹק הָעִתִּֽים:
26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will be cut off, and he will be no more, and the people of the coming monarch will destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and his end will come about by inundation, and until the end of the war, it will be cut off into desolation.
כווְאַֽחֲרֵ֚י הַשָּֽׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֚יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶֽחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹֽׁמֵמֽ:
27:And he will strengthen a covenant for the princes for one week, and half the week he will abolish sacrifice and meal- offering, and on high, among abominations, will be the dumb one, and until destruction and extermination befall the dumb one.
כזוְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָֽרַבִּ֖ים שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד וַֽחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ יַשְׁבִּ֣ית | זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֚ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שׁוֹמֵֽם:
Big Difference!
כדשָֽׁבֻעִ֨ים שִׁבְעִ֜ים נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ עַל־עַמְּךָ֣ | וְעַל־עִ֣יר קָדְשֶׁ֗ךָ לְכַלֵּ֨א הַפֶּ֜שַׁע וּלְהָתֵ֚ם (כתיב וּלְחָתֵ֚ם) חַטָּאוֹת֙ וּלְכַפֵּ֣ר עָוֹ֔ן וּלְהָבִ֖יא צֶ֣דֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים וְלַחְתֹּם֙ חָז֣וֹן וְנָבִ֔יא וְלִמְשֹׁ֖חַ קֹ֥דֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים:
25 And you shall know and understand that from the emergence of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until the anointed king [shall be] seven weeks, and [for] sixty-two weeks it will return and be built street and moat, but in troubled times.
כהוְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנ֚וֹת יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד שָֽׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה וְשָֽׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ רְח֣וֹב וְחָר֔וּץ וּבְצ֖וֹק הָעִתִּֽים:
26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will be cut off, and he will be no more, and the people of the coming monarch will destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and his end will come about by inundation, and until the end of the war, it will be cut off into desolation.
כווְאַֽחֲרֵ֚י הַשָּֽׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֚יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶֽחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹֽׁמֵמֽ:
27:And he will strengthen a covenant for the princes for one week, and half the week he will abolish sacrifice and meal- offering, and on high, among abominations, will be the dumb one, and until destruction and extermination befall the dumb one.
כזוְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָֽרַבִּ֖ים שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד וַֽחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ יַשְׁבִּ֣ית | זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֚ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שׁוֹמֵֽם:
Big Difference!
God allowed 70 A.D. to happen to both Jews and Christians.
I don't see how anything concerning the FUTURE would be any different than what God has already ALLOWED!
Even if we take Josephus' false accounts, it's clear what happened to God's ELECT and CHOSEN can and will happen to God's Gentile Believers! And 70 A.D. was mentioned in Matthew 24 just like the future Tribulation. We're going to SUFFER whether you like it or not!
I don't see how anything concerning the FUTURE would be any different than what God has already ALLOWED!
Even if we take Josephus' false accounts, it's clear what happened to God's ELECT and CHOSEN can and will happen to God's Gentile Believers! And 70 A.D. was mentioned in Matthew 24 just like the future Tribulation. We're going to SUFFER whether you like it or not!
What is strange is the complacency. The Gentiles have had a free meal ticket for two thousand years, whilst the Jews have been working the coal face....but according to the Tribulation wierdos, the Church will soon be whisked away whilst the Jews will get more pain. Totally heretical belief system. I'm out.
See my signature
31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
See my signature
31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
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Not I, nor those who understand that God's wrath has already been satisfied by the Lord on our behalf.
The temple was destroyed because Israel did not recognize the time of their visitation. Based on that, why would God pour out His wrath on His church who already believes in Him and is watching and anticipating His return? Your claims are ridiculous! The Lord is not going to put His church through His wrath for being watchful and faithful.
"As Jesus approached Jerusalem and saw the city, He wept over it 42and said, “If only you had known on this day what would bring you peace! But now it is hidden from your eyes. 43For the days will come upon you when your enemies will barricade you and surround you and hem you in on every side. 44They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God."
Why don't you actually set yourself to understanding the truth that we have been proclaiming to you on all of these Biblical subjects, instead of the continuous kneejerk reaction of rejecting everything?
The temple was destroyed because Israel did not recognize the time of their visitation. Based on that, why would God pour out His wrath on His church who already believes in Him and is watching and anticipating His return? Your claims are ridiculous! The Lord is not going to put His church through His wrath for being watchful and faithful.
"As Jesus approached Jerusalem and saw the city, He wept over it 42and said, “If only you had known on this day what would bring you peace! But now it is hidden from your eyes. 43For the days will come upon you when your enemies will barricade you and surround you and hem you in on every side. 44They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God."
Why don't you actually set yourself to understanding the truth that we have been proclaiming to you on all of these Biblical subjects, instead of the continuous kneejerk reaction of rejecting everything?
No you've got that all wrong.
It is well documented that the Christians DID in fact flee Jerusalem when they saw the armies taking position around the city. There was a several months long lull in the siege when word came to Vespasian that Nero died. Vespasian then siezed the throne. Afterward he ordered his son Titus, along with the 5th, 10th, 12th and 15th Legions to complete this siege.
Rumor has it that not one single solitary Christian died in Jerusalem due to the siege.
BTW.........many Jews also fled before the season began in earnest.
It is well documented that the Christians DID in fact flee Jerusalem when they saw the armies taking position around the city. There was a several months long lull in the siege when word came to Vespasian that Nero died. Vespasian then siezed the throne. Afterward he ordered his son Titus, along with the 5th, 10th, 12th and 15th Legions to complete this siege.
Rumor has it that not one single solitary Christian died in Jerusalem due to the siege.
BTW.........many Jews also fled before the season began in earnest.
(...but... it does seem much improved since my nap I agree with your understanding. Here we have an [entire] chapter in Matthew dedicated to Tribulations, and we know the first one was horrendous and deaths were like swatting flies all over the place for both Jew and Christian, but some how there is a belief it won't happen to us.
The coolaide is good evidently!
The coolaide is good evidently!
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God is not the author of arguments circleing and endless configuration back and forth, i concur. Jesus -- the Way. the Way to what? to Truth. and Life. the more one follows and seeks Spirit and Truth over the world and darkness, the more one finds Life -- on the road (Way) of Truth, and Life -- Christ in us -- the hope that grows by following -- Truth.
not by configuring endlesss arguments that may or may not raise a person up towards Christ -- the Way -- to Truth. truth, Real Truth comes with help of the Spirit, not endless speculations and arguments brought forth with over- much use of our own mind power -- without enough help also -- from God (Spirit).
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