Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
She was his "ma". On earth. And? I have a ma and a pa. But my Father is God.. as is hers.
"And"?? :unsure:...

The point is, the Messiah didn't need to put down his mom just to elevate himself in rank to Godhood. He didn't think such a position was a thing to be held on to but emptied himself taking the form of a servant and as a regular man (coming in the flesh) humbled himself being obedient in all things even in death. That's why He obeyed his mom when she asked for help, though it wasn't His time yet.

He wasn't a jerk who had to dishonor or look down upon His earthly ma just to show everyone He's GOD over her *cue thunder and lightning*.

What do you believe about Mary? What is your position regarding the Catholic religion?
I believe about her what I'm told by the text.
 
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
83
lol how much time you got?

1) Greek Copies lack the Hebrew culture:
Some elements scribes simply didn't have a Greek word what they were describing and did the best they could with words that were close equivalents. And in other areas it's clear they hadn't a clue about the culture from which the accounts were written and so completely miss figures of speech.

2) Corrupted when Codified by RCC:
Portions were added to accounts to promote religious doctrine, which are still there in modern bibles today.

3) Text Added to English Translation:
The scribes of the original KJV added words and phrases in their attempt to "help" interpretation, but there was push-back for adding to the text, so they republished their translation italicizing all word and phrases that weren't part of the original text (this is why I prefer the original KJV when sharing English because at least I can see those corruptions).

4) Later English Versions Morphed Text:
Unfortunately, later English versions absorbed the once italicized word and phrases and in an attempt to modernize the text completely changing the originally intended meaning of passages.
I can cut and paste from an unknown source, as you did.
See, posting info, does not make it true, when you yourself can't teach it.

Its like this......You have people on christian forums, who can't read, speak, or write, Koine Greek, ... fluently, Yet they pretend they are a Greek authority...........and that is what you just accomplished by posting a cut and paste nothing.

So let me just address this KJV ..."text added to", nonsense, as that is similar to the....>"they revised the original KJV"....which didnt happen.
What they did, was update the spelling, but never changed a verse.

The 47 who worked on the Original KJV, were very honest men......and when they "added text". to verses....they were careful to Italicize the words, so that you would know they were added.
See that?



Also......when posting regarding "modern bibles", you can't include the KJV in that pack.

Here is how it works.
The Catholic bible, the Douay Rheims, was not translated FROM the Greek to the English., so there is your phony bible.
It was translated from a greek text into LATIN, and this "Vulgate" is a corrupted mess, later translated into the Catholic english bible.
Jerome is responsible, and in fact its because of this horrible Latin translation, that Martin Luther , who read it, and recognized all the errors in it "........that he began to leave this "church".
For example......Jerome mistranslated "repentance" as "penance", and so, Catholics have been doing penance ever since.

So, there are 30 Greek texts, obo, and the "church" recognized 2-3.
If you dig deep, you'll learn about the "western" series of manuscripts that are the best, and the KJV came from this series, mostly.
 
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
83
"


I believe about her what I'm told by the text.
Then you believe she is "blessed among women"........vs the cult teaching that she and Jesus work together in Heaven, to get people saved.
 
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
83
"And"?? :unsure:...

The point is, the Messiah didn't need to put down his mom just to elevate himself in rank to Godhood. He didn't think such a position was a thing to be held on to but emptied himself taking the form of a servant and as a regular man (coming in the flesh) humbled himself being obedient in all things even in death. That's why He obeyed his mom when she asked for help, though it wasn't His time yet.

He wasn't a jerk who had to dishonor or look down upon His earthly ma just to show everyone He's GOD over her *cue thunder and lightning*.


I believe about her what I'm told by the text.
Nobody said Jesus "put her down". You did. He didn't put her down. He addressed her as she is/was. "He didn't think such a position was to be held on to...". Excuse me, are you actually attempting to tell us what Jesus was thinking? I thought you were sticking to the text. ?

No, Jesus, the Creator of all things, isn't even capable of "being a jerk" like you are. Jesus is God. God has no mother. God is eternal.

It appears you actually don't believe the text.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
Surely people do not really believe that they can continue to live in sin and not have to repent for it.
He had to decide to leave the pig pen so that he could have a good bed again, and a meal.

Here is the thing about the Prod Son....He never stopped being a SON.
Living with the pigs and the whores and the drunks and the addicts, just made him a FOOL.......thats all.
It didnt stop Him from being a son.

So, the Prod Son parable is not the idea that He lost his salvation until he stopped sleeping with the Pigs.
He didnt have to clean up and be a good boy so that the Father would accept him. All he had to do was COME HOME !!

The context of the Parable is that GOD is always waiting with Unconditional love.
The Father is always ready to RECEIVE us.
The Forgiveness of the Father is not earned...........because its never goes away, never changes, never stops..... never ends.

Jesus stands at the door and knocks on the heart of every one, who is living in the pig pen, and that is everyone who is an unbeliever.

""""ALL have sinned:""........= that is the pig pen.

He was still the FATHER of the prodigal, even when the boy was laying in the ditch next to the pigs and the whores.

Notice in the Parable that God didnt require him to get a BATH and CLEAN UP before He "Put the BEST Robe on Him".
See that?

THat is God, giving us the BLood of Jesus, when we were "Ungodly" and "yet sinners".

The REPENTING we do, is to turn from UNBELIEF to BELIEF.
That is the REAL Repentance that God accepts.
Did he or did he not repent?

I'm pretty sure that he did...He changed his mind and turned around and went back to the father.

And yes, repentance is the first step to being saved. We have to repent and turn away from unbelief and to belief in Jesus first before we are saved.

After that, there is a change we are born again and God takes away the stony heart and gives us a heart of flesh...a new nature. Our spirit is regenerated and we can walk and commune with God.

We walk in the Spirit. The Spirit does not fulfill the lust of the flesh. If we get out of the spirit and fall into the flesh and sin should we just continue in the flesh and keep right on sinning? I'm pretty sure Paul would have said God forbid because grace is not a license to sin.

So no, we don't continue walking in the flesh...we have to turn from it, right. So how is that not considered repenting?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
I can cut and paste from an unknown source, as you did.
See, posting info, does not make it true, when you yourself can't teach it.

Its like this......You have people on christian forums, who can't read, speak, or write, Koine Greek, ... fluently, Yet they pretend they are a Greek authority...........and that is what you just accomplished by posting a cut and paste nothing.
lol I wrote every word, even had to proofread it a few times. I think you're making assumptions about me as a new member here, instead of letting time and our interactions reveal what you need to know.

So let me just address this KJV ..."text added to", nonsense, as that is similar to the....>"they revised the original KJV"....which didnt happen.
What they did, was update the spelling, but never changed a verse.
Would you like a few examples?

The 47 who worked on the Original KJV, were very honest men......and when they "added text". to verses....they were careful to Italicize the words, so that you would know they were added.
See that?
Their character notwithstanding, it wasn't until after push-back that they were italicized. Feel free to research it.

Here is how it works.
The Catholic bible, the Douay Rheims, was not translated FROM the Greek to the English., so there is your phony bible.
It was translated from a greek text into LATIN, and this "Vulgate" is a corrupted mess, later translated into the Catholic english bible.
Jerome is responsible, and in fact its because of this horrible Latin translation, that Martin Luther , who read it, and recognized all the errors in it "........that he began to leave this "church".
For example......Jerome mistranslated "repentance" as "penance", and so, Catholics have been doing penance ever since.

So, there are 30 Greek texts, obo, and the "church" recognized 2-3.
If you dig deep, you'll learn about the "western" series of manuscripts that are the best, and the KJV came from this series, mostly.
You seem eager to share what you know.

Then you believe she is "blessed among women"........vs the cult teaching that she and Jesus work together in Heaven, to get people saved.
That tis what the text records she said after she was told she would carry the Messiah. If the text says it I believe it.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,912
113
Then you believe she is "blessed among women"........vs the cult teaching that she and Jesus work together in Heaven, to get people saved.
Yes, she is blessed among women. I don't think anyone here is praying to her or trying to say she is the Queen of Heaven, either.

Jesus never disrespected her and none of us should, either. Pretty sure that's a no, no for anyone.

What I don't get is why you immediately rush to the conclusion that someone is worshipping Mary by saying Jesus didn't disrespect her?
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,758
715
113
Nobody said Jesus "put her down". You did. He didn't put her down. He addressed her as she is/was.
You do realize there's a spiritual war right? There's a true Messiah and a false Christ. Whichever image sits in the hearts of men is the one who rules. It's important to understand what the Messiah was actually like.


"He didn't think such a position was to be held on to...". Excuse me, are you actually attempting to tell us what Jesus was thinking? I thought you were sticking to the text. ?
:unsure:...........

Philippians 2:5-8
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

No, Jesus, the Creator of all things, isn't even capable of "being a jerk" like you are. Jesus is God. God has no mother. God is eternal.

It appears you actually don't believe the text.
.......
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,546
12,991
113
God says for you to be Holy as He is Holy. Can you do that for yourself?
This is a totally separate issue. And it is the Holy Spirit who makes you holy. But if you have no desire to be holy, then your were not saved to begin with. And that is what we are talking about. Imputed righteous is not there if practical righteousness and holiness are absent.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
I haven't changed the Word of God. It seems to me you are actually trying to learn about it. Take the whole council of God. Don't pick and choose and then apply your own feelings to it.

And, I'm a woman, not a man. Just fyi.
I sorry sister
I am Christian for all my life 65 years and listen a lot of preaching still believe 1 cot 6 mean murder not inherit kg
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,546
12,991
113
Yes, but would that man lose the righteousness of Christ? The only way that I’m going to be holy is by the righteousness of Christ.
Imputed righteous along with eternal life is God's gift to the one who obeys the Gospel. And God does not take back His gifts. But if a child of God persists in sin, there are serious consequences (short of loss of salvation). So while imputed righteousness is a gift, practical righteousness is your words and deeds.
 
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
83
Yes, she is blessed among women. I don't think anyone here is praying to her or trying to say she is the Queen of Heaven, either.

Jesus never disrespected her and none of us should, either. Pretty sure that's a no, no for anyone.

What I don't get is why you immediately rush to the conclusion that someone is worshipping Mary by saying Jesus didn't disrespect her?
How could you disrespect someone you don't know and who is dead?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,141
26,206
113
This is a totally separate issue. And it is the Holy Spirit who makes you holy. But if you have no desire to be holy, then your were not saved to begin with. And that is what we are talking about. Imputed righteous is not there if practical righteousness and holiness are absent.
According to you then, one needs to be perfect before God will save them, and one needs to maintain this perfection
and/or standard of holiness or God will remove the seal of the Holy Spirit of God and person becomes un-born again?


That is certainly not what I understand of the gospel or what the Bible teaches.

 
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
83
We walk in the Spirit.
Walking in the Spirit, is not trying to live holy.
Its not the practice of trying to be good.
See, you can do that and just be religious by lost.
 
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
83
That tis what the text records she said after she was told she would carry the Messiah. If the text says it I believe it.
Yes, blessed among women, not blessed above them.
Thats true.
 
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
83
This is a totally separate issue. And it is the Holy Spirit who makes you holy. But if you have no desire to be holy, then your were not saved to begin with. And that is what we are talking about. Imputed righteous is not there if practical righteousness and holiness are absent.
You are confusing salvation , which is what God provides, with your discipleship.

They are not the same.
One, God provides for you, and the other, you provided as your lifestyle...... because you are saved.
 
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
83
What I don't get is why you immediately rush to the conclusion that someone is worshipping Mary by saying Jesus didn't disrespect her?
No one but Catholics care about Mary.
Shocking, i know.
 
Feb 16, 2017
1,037
285
83
Their character notwithstanding, it wasn't until after push-back that they were italicized. Feel free to research it.
What you stated is a lie.
In fact, the Translators originally used small type, originally, to show where they added a word.
Later, this was just changed to italics, ...
There was never any debate or discrepency.

Here is what you should do.
Find another ministry other than "why i hate the KJV".
You can find a much better way to spend your life.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
Walking in the Spirit, is not trying to live holy.
Its not the practice of trying to be good.
See, you can do that and just be religious by lost.
So walking in the spiri no ty to be Oly than try o be bad, like rob he bank?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
You are confusing salvation , which is what God provides, with your discipleship.

They are not the same.
One, God provides for you, and the other, you provided as your lifestyle...... because you are saved.
Definition of disciple

1: one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrinesof another: such as

With this definition Seem to me every Christian is diciple